[Thracian]

So you're not technically against the idea of a 10+ driver UIEM but don't want to do it for the Kaiser 10?

He's saying it's not feasible for them to do it right now, not that they don't want to do it. Only time will tell what they'll do I too hope the K10s come in universal form as more people can get to hear its wonderful sound!


(And universals will stop people from a certain extent, taking my customs and stuffing it in their ears without my consent. Yucks.)

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote:FullCircle

   
 
Nope not technically against a K10 univ, and we were interested in it enough to discuss it.   If the lab had the time, it may be offered in the future.
 
On to the questions
 
1) Plateau : I don't know the future. The most ever done so far that has been well recorded and "functioned" was a 20 driver (per side) built by me.  You can consult with my face book page (John Thomas Moulton) for photos etc
 
   In my opinon, under the current technology and build procedures, 4 drivers per sound bore can be used.  If it is the case that 3 bores can be reliably placed in most ear canals then it would stand to reason that 12 drivers is the max drivers that will be used.  
 
But again, I did build a 20 driver, but I did not use conventional build techniques, sound bores were not used, but rather a "sound channel" was used. 
 
2) Yes BA tech is moving forward, we are seeing more drivers built to address the IEM/CIEM market rather than depending on drivers developed around the hearing aid industry
 
3) Hybrids and potential....   I think we have seen a lot of action in that area
 
4) BA can not deliver bass....   I think that myth has been put to bed a long while back. The Noble 5 hits with the hammer of Thor, and the K10 and the 8C has 2x the bass drivers that the Noble 5 has. Other manufactures can pull bass out of BAs as well.
 
Initially, it was true, the market had a lot of examples of BA IEM that couldn't produce bass.....   but not trying to be rude....  
 
but mfg. were getting away with that, building single BA IEMs.  They were useing low priced drivers, that were fairly "full range" but were very bass light....  and that was pretty much all there was available on the marke, so folks thought that BA/s were all bass light. But that was only because the market was only exposed to bass light BA IEMs.
 
 Then came along multi driver systems....  and I think we now have BA products on the market today that can satisfy just about any bass lover.
 
Variable resistors v/s EQ
 
Ehhhh, hard to say, as it really depends on the Variable resistor and the EQ arangement.  For example, and EQ with changeable x over points, or 16 - 24 bands vs a single potentiometer bass adjustment....   there is no comparison.

 

 
Thank you for the response.
 
Does that mean we will see a narrowing of the frequency response range of each driver? Rather than there being bass, mid, highs it will be sub bass, mid bass, lower mids, upper mids, lower treble and upper treble.
 
JH Audio places importance on having each BA in phase with each other and this has been a pretty strong part of their marketing with 'freqphase'. I was wondering whether your CIEMs are in phase, if you think this matters and whether having each BA in phase with each other creates new technical hurdles in the placement of each BA?
 
Does adding more drivers add significantly more weight or does the acrylic housing comprise the bulk of the weight of a CIEM?
 

Spoiler: Quote: Mython

 

   
 
I respect the attempt at innovation in the Roxannes, but, on the flip-side, the biggest factor for me, in considering the merits of variable resistor vs just using DAP EQ is that one requires the use of thicker 4-core cables, with troublesome connectors, whilst the other can simply be used with standard 2-pin/core lightweight cables with relatively reliable connectors, so, for me, the latter (older) approach wins.

 
I really hate bulky cables as well and proprietary connectors mean super-expensive cables made by a few cable makers. While, I do wonder how sturdy the 2pin connector is, at least I can get a spare cable for a reasonable price. Bulky connectors also add a lot of microphonics with hair.

 

[minhminh93]

I attempted to remove my K10 cable. I gave up as it would require pulling the thing with much larger force than I thought and willing to use =_=

 

[Mython]

  I really hate bulky cables as well and proprietary connectors mean super-expensive cables made by a few cable makers. While, I do wonder how sturdy the 2pin connector is, at least I can get a spare cable for a reasonable price. Bulky connectors also add a lot of microphonics with hair.

 
 
Yep, there's way too much price-gouging in the aftermarket cables industry

 
 
2-pin connectors are not indestructible, obviously, but as long as they're kept fully pushed-in, there is not much chance for the pins to bend, and therefore they are unlikely to break. The fact that a 2-core cable is so lightweight means that there is much less stress upon the plug/socket/pins where it enters the CIEM shell. Honestly, the 2-pin connector is surprisingly robust, all things considered.
 
 
 
You make a good point about microphonics, too...

 

[Mython]

I attempted to remove my K10 cable. I gave up as it would require pulling the thing with much larger force than I thought and willing to use =_=

 
Maybe you should ask your dentist to try?

 

[FullCircle]

 

Spoiler: Quote:FullCircle

 

 
Thank you for the response.
 
Does that mean we will see a narrowing of the frequency response range of each driver? Rather than there being bass, mid, highs it will be sub bass, mid bass, lower mids, upper mids, lower treble and upper treble.
 
JH Audio places importance on having each BA in phase with each other and this has been a pretty strong part of their marketing with 'freqphase'. I was wondering whether your CIEMs are in phase, if you think this matters and whether having each BA in phase with each other creates new technical hurdles in the placement of each BA?
 
Does adding more drivers add significantly more weight or does the acrylic housing comprise the bulk of the weight of a CIEM?
 

 
 
Does that mean we will see a narrowing of the frequency response range of each driver? Rather than there being bass, mid, highs it will be sub bass, mid bass, lower mids, upper mids, lower treble and upper treble.
 
 
I don't work for Knowles, but I think the trend is drivers that are developed with a specific purpose, for example "vented" drivers such that there is more bass delivered by a smaller driver. Also multiple driver "packages" being developed such as two driver or three driver clusters ready to go right out of the box.
 
Freqphase is "patented" which is like placeing a patent on the wheel. As really what Freqphase is all about is tunning drivers via tube length, and controlling sound via tube length has been around since the day a man first blew on a horn. (A trombone is a fine example of a horn that uses tube length to conrtol sound)  Due to the fact that FreqPhase is patented, I can't really respond to your question....  
 
Drivers and weight:   Drivers are surpriseingly heavy for their size, and yes when you start getting around 6+ drivers, the weight does become noticeable. (at least for me)
 
You could probably go to the Knowles web site and find detailed information regarding weight.

 

[minhminh93]

Maybe you should ask your dentist to try?

Nah, I'm not a cable-guy and I like the look and feel of the stock cable alot

 

[AmberOzL]

About cables, their prices and their thickness.
 
This might become the new industry standard design for aftermarket cables and you know, it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/719062/review-estron-linum-bax-new-iem-cable-for-a-new-age

 

[Mython]

  About cables, their prices and their thickness.
 
This might become the new industry standard design for aftermarket cables and you know, it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/719062/review-estron-linum-bax-new-iem-cable-for-a-new-age

 
 
Hmmm... now that's more like it! Yes, I'm not one for aftermarket cables, but they're not absolutely insanely-priced, and it would be nice to have such a thin cable. That's going into my 'favourites' links.

 

[Watagump]

Not childish at all. I do prefer universal to CIEM.

 
Very interesting, I would have a hard time going to a universal after getting customs. I would like to believe no one ever would go back, no more dealing with tips is a huge blessing IMHO.

 

[theUKMrT]

Are the K10 demos not essentially a universal version? When I checked out the K10's at the recent London demo I didn't do a side-by-side visual comparison of the housing next to my N4's so assumed them to be the same size - they didn't feel different when fitted.
 
Whilst I too would prefer a universal (for the convenience and ease of re-sale when an update's available), having heard what the K10's can do, even if I had the cash spare, I wouldn't be jumping brand any time soon. They really seemed to be the perfect iem (for me).

 

[FullCircle]

   
 
Hmmm... now that's more like it! Yes, I'm not one for aftermarket cables, but they're not absolutely insanely-priced, and it would be nice to have such a thin cable. That's going into my 'favourites' links.

 
 
Did I read that right, a pull strength of 13 pounds!? 

 

[uelover]

   
Very interesting, I would have a hard time going to a universal after getting customs. I would like to believe no one ever would go back, no more dealing with tips is a huge blessing IMHO.

 
Universal is easy to insert and remove. It is particularly useful in situation whereby you frequently have to conduct short interaction with people.
 
Also, when the weather is hot (and humid), I don't really like to have things stuck so deeply into my ears. It just feels uncomfortable.
 
Of course, it differs from people to people. But to me, universal is really a convenient tool.
 
The key part of course is to find the right ear tips for yourself.
 
PS: For whatever reason, I find the demo unit of the K10 (which is a universal) to be really comfortable, more so than the universal N4.

 

[bangkokkid]

   
 
Did I read that right, a pull strength of 13 pounds!? 

 
Perhaps he left off a zero.

 

[FreeBlues]

My 8.As have a shorter canal length than my K10s ...

 
A question unrelated to your original post - you own BOTH the 8's and 10's?  I realize they are different generations, but can you comment on the differences.  I am about to place an order for the 8C's, just cannot swing ("justify") the greater cost of the 10's.  Still, it would maybe be instructive to know the difference, to know what the extra $300+ gets one.