Noble Audio - the Wizard returns!
May 1, 2015 at 1:53 AM Post #10,201 of 36,116
  I figure he means the only way to actually crack the lacquer is to drop the IEMs or forcefully hit them on something ... so user error. Presumably the lacquer wouldn't crack under normal circumstances and, as you suggested, "mere sweat and body oil" wouldn't be able to crack it.



Seems possible, though i really doubt it. I do some woodwork on my free time, and generally lacquer do not crack for that reason. Its usually small errors in the application of it (assuming the lacquer is good quality like Morrells), and most of the time, its drying issues, although to be fair, there are times when i'm completely sure i applied them perfectly and they still cracked.

Do note im speaking on lacquer on woodwork. The type of lacquer used and its process is likely to be different on the K10U's.

Jon
 
May 1, 2015 at 2:52 AM Post #10,204 of 36,116
  Hey guys,

Have the lacquer on any of your K10U's cracked?

I recently bought a K10U with a bit of a cracked paint/lacquer (still completely safe and usable as the paint does not peel), as it was the one and only Canjam red K10U, and i figured cracked or not, it is a rare piece of Noble history and is worth buying.

I understood that the warranty is non transferable, and was willing to pay a small sum to have it repaired. But as it turns out, brennan indicated it is likely to cost a few hundred dollars and that the cracked lacquer is most likely due to user error, and this is the part that ticked me off (i might be wrong and thus completely embarrass myself here.).

My question, how is it possible that cracked paint/lacquer is due to user error? Using the balance of probabilities,  it is much more likely that the lacquer was not applied properly (not dried properly before applying the next layer etc) or your lacquer was of such inferior quality that mere sweat and body oil can crack it.

Anyone here with a cracked lacquer? The red one is from Oct2014 Canjam. Its likely that any problems will be from K10U's purchased around that date.

Jon

 
 
Layers
 
Layers of laquer are not generally required, they may be required to "bulkl up" a CIEM if it is slightly loose, but for a IEM universal, only one layer is applied
 
 
Drying
 
Lacquer doesn't dry through "traditional means" the lacquer is exposed to UV light and that cures the lacquer
 
 
Inferior Quality Lacquer
 
We use Dreve Fotoplast Lack 3
 
A product of Germany, FDA approved, and expensive.
 
 
Cracking
 
It has been my experience, dropping IEMs/CIEMs can cause cracking. I have also found exposing them to hot or cold temperatures can cause the lacquer to crack as well. I once placed a set of CIEMs next to the exhaust vent of a lap top coumputer....   only to discover the lacquer started to crack...  
 
 
It is unfortunate that your free K10 Universals have some aesthetic cracks on the surface. If you like them to be resurfaced, we can do so, but keep in mind that matching what you originally had would be difficult if not impossible, as the color was a one off mix.  That said I am willing to try to do so.  You can make the financial arrangements with Brannan.
 
 
Cheers,
 

 

 
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May 1, 2015 at 2:54 AM Post #10,205 of 36,116
 

Seems possible, though i really doubt it. I do some woodwork on my free time, and generally lacquer do not crack for that reason. Its usually small errors in the application of it (assuming the lacquer is good quality like Morrells), and most of the time, its drying issues, although to be fair, there are times when i'm completely sure i applied them perfectly and they still cracked.

Do note im speaking on lacquer on woodwork. The type of lacquer used and its process is likely to be different on the K10U's.

Jon

 
 
It is
 
Futher more, I don't know what type of woodwork you are doing, but if it is a typical table top etc etc, a table top isn't subjected to the same type of use and environments that a CIEM/IEM is.
 
I would love to use a cheaper alternative lacquer, such as the lacquer used on wood furniture, but we would rather use a lacquer that is FDA approved for skin contact.
 
Noble Audio Stay updated on Noble Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/NobleAudio https://www.twitter.com/noblebywizard https://www.instagram.com/nobleaudio https://nobleaudio.com/en/ contact@nobleaudio.com
May 1, 2015 at 3:32 AM Post #10,206 of 36,116
   
 
Layers
 
Layers of laquer are not generally required, they may be required to "bulkl up" a CIEM if it is slightly loose, but for a IEM universal, only one layer is applied
 
 
Drying
 
Lacquer doesn't dry through "traditional means" the lacquer is exposed to UV light and that cures the lacquer
 
 
Inferior Quality Lacquer
 
We use Dreve Fotoplast Lack 3
 
A product of Germany, FDA approved, and expensive.
 
 
Cracking
 
It has been my experience, dropping IEMs/CIEMs can cause cracking. I have also found exposing them to hot or cold temperatures can cause the lacquer to crack as well. I once placed a set of CIEMs next to the exhaust vent of a lap top coumputer....   only to discover the lacquer started to crack...  
 
 
It is unfortunate that your free K10 Universals have some aesthetic cracks on the surface. If you like them to be resurfaced, we can do so, but keep in mind that matching what you originally had would be difficult if not impossible, as the color was a one off mix.  That said I am willing to try to do so.  You can make the financial arrangements with Brannan.
 
 
Cheers,
 

 

Thanks, that clarified alot of it.

Do note i did not get these for free, the original owner however was the incredibly lucky one. She did live in a relatively hot environment. A disclaimer perhaps for the many of us who live in hot and humid/dry environments?

"In the unlikely event of cracks appearing in the lacquer due to overly hot/cold environments, the warranty will no longer apply"

As i indicated to Brennan, i understood the amount of work and time it would take to resurface these. Both of which are quite scarce given how busy Noble is these days.

If possible, i think it would be simpler (and probably look better) if we were to go with this route. Where a little gold paint is applied on the cracks and a clear lacquer is then applied over it. Saving you the time needed to remove the original layer.



 
Regards
Jon
 
 
May 1, 2015 at 3:35 AM Post #10,207 of 36,116
  Thanks, that clarified alot of it.

Do note i did not get these for free, the original owner however was the incredibly lucky one. She did live in a relatively hot environment. A disclaimer perhaps for the many of us who live in hot and humid/dry environments?

"In the unlikely event of cracks appearing in the lacquer due to overly hot/cold environments, the warranty will no longer apply"

As i indicated to Brennan, i understood the amount of work and time it would take to resurface these. Both of which are quite scarce given how busy Noble is these days.

If possible, i think it would be simpler (and probably look better) if we were to go with this route. Where a little gold paint is applied on the cracks and a clear lacquer is then applied over it. Saving you the time needed to remove the original layer.



 
Regards
Jon
 

 
 
You would first have to lay down the paint then sand down the paint, leaving behind the gold lines....    and hopefully not sanding through the very thin layer of laquer.  In your situation the warranty never exsisted as you are the second owner.  (and there is a disclaimer for that)
 
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May 1, 2015 at 3:53 AM Post #10,208 of 36,116
   
 
You would first have to lay down the paint then sand down the paint, leaving behind the gold lines....    and hopefully not sanding through the very thin layer of laquer.  In your situation the warranty never exsisted as you are the second owner.  (and there is a disclaimer for that)



So i suppose the paint is sprayed on? Understandable.

On the warranty not being applicable to second owners, i get that. I've indicated that in my first post earlier and also in my emails to brennan.

My question is this, do cracks in the lacquer fall under the warranty? I own a K10U bought last Black Friday. That one still falls under the 2 year warranty. I live in malaysia/singapore, where the atmosphere can can be very hot and humid/dry at the same time (since you're based in thailand, you should get the idea). Many people live in similar conditions, California is hot as hell and bone dry this time of the year.

Given time, it is likely that the lacquer of the occasional K10U will crack, and some will do so in the warranty period. In these cases, do the warranty still apply to the original owners.

Jon
 
May 1, 2015 at 4:06 AM Post #10,209 of 36,116
 

So i suppose the paint is sprayed on? Understandable.

On the warranty not being applicable to second owners, i get that. I've indicated that in my first post earlier and also in my emails to brennan.

My question is this, do cracks in the lacquer fall under the warranty? I own a K10U bought last Black Friday. That one still falls under the 2 year warranty. I live in malaysia/singapore, where the atmosphere can can be very hot and humid/dry at the same time (since you're based in thailand, you should get the idea). Many people live in similar conditions, California is hot as hell and bone dry this time of the year.

Given time, it is likely that the lacquer of the occasional K10U will crack, and some will do so in the warranty period. In this cases, do the warranty still apply to the original owners.

Jon

 
 
No, cracks would not apply. 
 
Noble Audio Stay updated on Noble Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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May 1, 2015 at 7:01 AM Post #10,211 of 36,116
I'm quite surprised to hear that.

 
Universal Product Warranty
 
Noble warrants a universal in-ear monitor product to be free of defects in material and/or workmanship for a period of two (2) years from the date of retail purchase. The warranty is nontransferable, is valid for the original purchaser, and is only valid when the product is purchased from an authorized source. In the event that a product is deemed defective, Noble will either repair or replace the product with a new or refurbished substantially equivalent model. This limited warranty does not cover loss, theft, or any defects attributable to damage beyond the reasonable control of Noble including damage caused by abuse, misuse, misapplication, or modifications performed by anyone other than Noble.
The warranty only applies to the external shell of the product and the internal components. The carrying case, cleaning tool, and any other accessories are not covered by the warranty.
The limited warranty shall apply to any repair, valid replacement part, or replacement product for the remainder of the original warranty period or for ninety (90) days, whichever period of time is greater. Any parts or products replaced under warranty will become the property of Noble.
 
 
 
 
"..... damage beyond the reasonable control of Noble..."   Noble can not prevent a product from falling off a desk, out of someone's hands, chewed by a dog/and or cat, theft, placed in the wash, lost or any other form of abuse, misuse, neglect or accident.
 
Noble Audio Stay updated on Noble Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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May 1, 2015 at 7:35 AM Post #10,212 of 36,116
"..... damage beyond the reasonable control of Noble..."   Noble can not prevent a product from falling off a desk, out of someone's hands, chewed by a dog/and or cat, theft, placed in the wash, lost or any other form of abuse, misuse, neglect or accident.

Of course I would not expect the warranty to cover the scenarios you describe. I had the impression that you were saying that the laquer finish was not covered even if it was a manufacturing defect.
 
May 1, 2015 at 9:50 AM Post #10,214 of 36,116
   
Universal Product Warranty
 
Noble warrants a universal in-ear monitor product to be free of defects in material and/or workmanship for a period of two (2) years from the date of retail purchase. The warranty is nontransferable, is valid for the original purchaser, and is only valid when the product is purchased from an authorized source. In the event that a product is deemed defective, Noble will either repair or replace the product with a new or refurbished substantially equivalent model. This limited warranty does not cover loss, theft, or any defects attributable to damage beyond the reasonable control of Noble including damage caused by abuse, misuse, misapplication, or modifications performed by anyone other than Noble.
The warranty only applies to the external shell of the product and the internal components. The carrying case, cleaning tool, and any other accessories are not covered by the warranty.
The limited warranty shall apply to any repair, valid replacement part, or replacement product for the remainder of the original warranty period or for ninety (90) days, whichever period of time is greater. Any parts or products replaced under warranty will become the property of Noble.
 
 
 
 
"..... damage beyond the reasonable control of Noble..."   Noble can not prevent a product from falling off a desk, out of someone's hands, chewed by a dog/and or cat, theft, placed in the wash, lost or any other form of abuse, misuse, neglect or accident.


Well, this smells a little like JH Roxxane's plastic nuts incident to be honest. Although, to be fair, this one is unlikely to affect most people any time soon, or at all.

I dont think a person living in a particularly warm, cold, humid or dry environment constitutes as a form of abuse, misuse, neglect or accident.

You said that a K10U next to the laptop vent started having its lacquer cracking. That is probably around 50 Celsius. Summer in most western countries and australia is likely to hit 35 or higher. Most south east asian countries, especially those like malaysia, singapore and thailand have its temperatures higher than 35 Celcius most of the time. Over time, say 2-3 years, cracks are going to appear in a significant amount of K10's. I feel sorry for the buyer living in the middle east, then again, oil money, who cares, they can just buy another.

Your lacquer, expensive or not, is clearly not up to stuff(for mass production of luxury custom monitors) if it cannot handle the weather of half the planet (probably half the countries on this planet have temperatures exceeding 35 Celcius for at least 3-4 months). You can probably argue that most CIEM makers use the same or worse stuff, but this is Noble and i expected more from what is in my opinion the premier maker of earphones alongside Fitear. The lacquer of other companies may be cheaper (im not sure about this), but repairs of any cracks to the lacquer is covered by the warranty. Cracks in the lacquer should never even happened. 

The only damage to the IEM that does not fall under warranty coverage should only be the acrylic cracking (Clearly, you dropped it, your fault), scratches, driver failure due to water damage etc, broken cables etc. Where carelessness or excessive force is beyond doubt.

If its not under warranty, put a disclaimer in your site, saying the lacquer may crack if exposed to temperature higher than 35 Celcius for extended periods of time. And that any cracks in the lacquer will not be covered.

Just in case anyone is unclear, i meant the lacquer and not the acrylic.
 
   
 
It is
 
Futher more, I don't know what type of woodwork you are doing, but if it is a typical table top etc etc, a table top isn't subjected to the same type of use and environments that a CIEM/IEM is.
 
I would love to use a cheaper alternative lacquer, such as the lacquer used on wood furniture, but we would rather use a lacquer that is FDA approved for skin contact.
 


Yes, instead of just the inside of the ear, these have hot plates, mugs, books and that sports rim i put on it to clean. Scratches and dents in the wood ? Yes, no cracks though.

To be honest, your lacquer probably cost about 20-30 (probably way more) plus times the ones i use for furniture. Then again, most decent tables cost way less than 1.6k. In terms of quality, you are not competing with cheap ass furniture like the ones im making.

Actually, i refinish of piano's mostly. So id use this analogy. If i was buying a grand piano costing 300k instead of the usual 10-15k, i expect the finishing of a Fazioli, not a yamaha. Even then, the lacquer of a yamaha dont crack due to temperature from a laptop vent. 

I dont expect the lacquer of the noble K10's to be as durable as furniture lacquer. But it should at the very least not crack under normal temperatures. Change that lacquer, or consider making your own. Otherwise, a disclaimer on your site so that people know what they are getting into.

In this case, i bought a K10U with cracks in the lacquer. I knew i had to pay something to get it refinished. Most people(me included) buy K10U's never expecting any cracks to ever happen and if they do happen, to be covered by the warranty.  Given the disclaimer, I would probably have still bought the thing (My own K10U is still perfect), but at least i knew what i was getting into. Unpleasant surprises and interactions like these can be avoided. 
 

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