What do you mean ? I'm confused....
Noble Audio - the Wizard returns!
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I think, he means this: https://nobleaudio.com/products/kaiser-encore.
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Whazzzup
Headphoneus Supremus
Yes got em when they launched Black Friday sale, 1500 usd….. listen to em the other day, went wow. I acknowledge improvements over the last 7 years but sheesh, what’s good was good is still good. But Viking Ragnar mmmmmmm……..
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MRT-Man
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Ronin, to me, is like a better version of the Mentor. Should give you an idea of the tuning, if you’ve heard the Mentor.
Ah....ok. I understun
In what way do you see Ronin as a better version of Mentor? Apart from the fact that the idea of "best" is obviously quite relative, I don't understand what the similarities are supposed to be. I have both here and Mentor is my favorite TOTL ever. But Ronin I put up for sale, even for the second time after giving it another chance. In that sense, Mentor is certainly "better" for me.
Mentor has, the way I hear both, at least:
- more subbass
- more midbass
- less low mid
- more upper mid
- more treble
- less organic vocals / Ronin‘s vocals are the best, it almost seems to have been created for this
- a ticker note weight
- a narrower, but more holographic soundstage
- less air between instrument
- less microdynamics
- … but more macrodynamics
- a bit less definition
- a less balanced, reference tuning; it’s more fun and engaging. Ronin is a perfect allarounder
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Doing a simple math..... KK turns out to be somewhere between Ronin and Ragnar. I err ?
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
For the sound profile that may be about right. But speaking of quality it would only be the "winner" for certain parts. And which parts you find more important will make you lean more towards one than the other. Like, I'm all for warm, bodied mids, and therefore I have Sultan while Ronin would be a consideration. So no matter how many points are scored by KK or Ragnar they will never score enough to make up for their cooler mids.
So my descriptions were not meant as a "count the points and you have the winnet" kind of system, but more to describe their sometimes big, sometimes subtle differences.
drftr
Yes, of course you're right, but in the end the "simple and playful" mathematical calculation doesn't deviate much from your thoughts. In fact I said that KK is between Ronin and Ragnar .... and that's what you wrote in the summary at the end:
Best bass timbre RA=KK>RO
Best overall timbre RO>KK>RA
Best all-rounder RO>KK>RA
And I also say that PERSONALLY .... I always pay more attention to quality than quantity. Regardless of lows, mids or highs. And here too, referring to what you have explained well on your card, and paying attention only to quality and not quantity, even KK plays with Ragnar, with third place for Ronin.
Do I understand correctly that in your opinion KK is qualitatively ahead of Ronin? Just to be clear, Ronin has more details than Mentor and The Bird, and VK is even more. I really dare to doubt that KK is on the same level as VK.
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
Exactly. Although KK is very very good it would be a stretch to say it rivals Ronin. For me personally and based on listening perhaps 40% classical, 20% jazz, 20% popular/rock, 10% metal, 10% prog I would value Kublai Khan < Ragnar < Sultan = Ronin (Sultan winning points on timbre across the FR, musicality, plus its gorgeous mids, while losing some points on sub bass and lower treble), but Ronin winning on being the very best #2 on basically every measure imaginable).
drftr
MRT-Man
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I think we're hearing many of the same things, but perhaps disagreeing on the magnitude of the differences.
From my perspective, of the TOTL IEMs I've heard (Odyssey, Mentor, Xe6, Rn6, Ragnar, Ronin, Traillii, Annihilator, Mason FS, Odin, Tansio Mirai RGB, among others..) I find the Ronin and Mentor to be the two that sound most alike. So perhaps that's making me say that they're very similar, in relative terms, while in absolute terms the differences are nonetheless significant. And to be clear, I was comparing both with the same cable, which might reduce some of the difference vs. stock cables (but I suspect you were as well). Another disclaimer is that I only had the chance to compare them, on two occasions, for several minutes, while I know that you've owned both and should have a better appreciation of the differences.
All that said, and just my own personal impressions -- I agree that Mentor has more sub-bass, less organic vocals, narrower stage and more treble. I do think Ronin has more mid-bass though. I didn't perceive the Mentor to be more holographic, but to be fair I think I've heard others share your opinion in that regard.
I'd say overall, the Ronin just sounds more natural, smooth, coherent and "correct" to me. The treble is just a little too relaxed for my tastes with the stock cable, but it opens up nicely with the Brise Yatono 8w and with the right tips (Noble foam or Symbio F). If I was comparing stock cable vs. stock cable, maybe the differences in treble could push me more towards the Mentor. Though for what it's worth, I had three other head-fiers compare my Ronin to the Mentor, and all three preferred the Ronin. In @dmphile's case, so much so that he felt compelled to sell his Mentor in favor of the Ronin.
But of course we all hear things differently, we all have different DAPs/cables/tips etc., and we all listen to different genres. Ultimately though I'd put them both in the same category as highly-resolving, reference-tuned, slightly warm (but not very warm) IEMs, which is why I'd say they're similar.
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
I think we're hearing many of the same things, but perhaps disagreeing on the magnitude of the differences.
From my perspective, of the TOTL IEMs I've heard (Odyssey, Mentor, Xe6, Rn6, Ragnar, Ronin, Traillii, Annihilator, Mason FS, Odin, Tansio Mirai RGB, among others..) I find the Ronin and Mentor to be the two that sound most alike. So perhaps that's making me say that they're very similar, in relative terms, while in absolute terms the differences are nonetheless significant. And to be clear, I was comparing both with the same cable, which might reduce some of the difference vs. stock cables (but I suspect you were as well). Another disclaimer is that I only had the chance to compare them, on two occasions, for several minutes, while I know that you've owned both and should have a better appreciation of the differences.
All that said, and just my own personal impressions -- I agree that Mentor has more sub-bass, less organic vocals, narrower stage and more treble. I do think Ronin has more mid-bass though. I didn't perceive the Mentor to be more holographic, but to be fair I think I've heard others share your opinion in that regard.
I'd say overall, the Ronin just sounds more natural, smooth, coherent and "correct" to me. The treble is just a little too relaxed for my tastes with the stock cable, but it opens up nicely with the Brise Yatono 8w and with the right tips (Noble foam or Symbio F). If I was comparing stock cable vs. stock cable, maybe the differences in treble could push me more towards the Mentor. Though for what it's worth, I had three other head-fiers compare my Ronin to the Mentor, and all three preferred the Ronin. In @dmphile's case, so much so that he felt compelled to sell his Mentor in favor of the Ronin.
But of course we all hear things differently, we all have different DAPs/cables/tips etc., and we all listen to different genres. Ultimately though I'd put them both in the same category as highly-resolving, reference-tuned, slightly warm (but not very warm) IEMs, which is why I'd say they're similar.
drftr
Yep, I can only agree as well!I think we're hearing many of the same things, but perhaps disagreeing on the magnitude of the differences.
From my perspective, of the TOTL IEMs I've heard (Odyssey, Mentor, Xe6, Rn6, Ragnar, Ronin, Traillii, Annihilator, Mason FS, Odin, Tansio Mirai RGB, among others..) I find the Ronin and Mentor to be the two that sound most alike. So perhaps that's making me say that they're very similar, in relative terms, while in absolute terms the differences are nonetheless significant. And to be clear, I was comparing both with the same cable, which might reduce some of the difference vs. stock cables (but I suspect you were as well). Another disclaimer is that I only had the chance to compare them, on two occasions, for several minutes, while I know that you've owned both and should have a better appreciation of the differences.
All that said, and just my own personal impressions -- I agree that Mentor has more sub-bass, less organic vocals, narrower stage and more treble. I do think Ronin has more mid-bass though. I didn't perceive the Mentor to be more holographic, but to be fair I think I've heard others share your opinion in that regard.
I'd say overall, the Ronin just sounds more natural, smooth, coherent and "correct" to me. The treble is just a little too relaxed for my tastes with the stock cable, but it opens up nicely with the Brise Yatono 8w and with the right tips (Noble foam or Symbio F). If I was comparing stock cable vs. stock cable, maybe the differences in treble could push me more towards the Mentor. Though for what it's worth, I had three other head-fiers compare my Ronin to the Mentor, and all three preferred the Ronin. In @dmphile's case, so much so that he felt compelled to sell his Mentor in favor of the Ronin.
But of course we all hear things differently, we all have different DAPs/cables/tips etc., and we all listen to different genres. Ultimately though I'd put them both in the same category as highly-resolving, reference-tuned, slightly warm (but not very warm) IEMs, which is why I'd say they're similar.
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