[StanD]

  Giving another listen to Vali with HD800, I have to say it does as well as any amp I've heard when it comes to technical details. The soundstaging is wide and the detailing is superb. It has a very airy feel compared to my Crack. It definitely brings out the stock HD800 sound very well, and is especially shocking considering its price. That said, the HD800 sounds rather polite, and lacks the dynamics and euphony I get from the Quickie + Crack. I can imagine the Vali + HD800 combo be great for listening to more polite genres like classical music. For me though, I listen to a lot of rock and pop, and while many have said the HD800 is weak in those genres, I have to disagree. With my Quickie + Crack pairing, it sounds as good as any headphone I've heard in dynamics, presentation, and engagement. In fact, I prefer it even over the HE-500 for rock/pop with my setup. I think this speaks more to how versatile and malleable the HD800 can be depending on your chain.

I really like the HD800's and didn't find the treble to be fatiguing or whatever it is that some whinge about.The only reason I don't have a pair is the price and that I've overspent in recent months, so that day might be coming. I also have too many cans and will get the the evil eye from my wife if she sees a new pair of cans. She can use Google and then 

. I don't think they're as hard to amp as many make it out to be. IMO, some folks like to get exotic amps and make too big a deal of it.

 

[zilch0md]

Hi olor1n,
 
Quote:

 
Apologies in advance but here's a gross generalisation - those who want to preserve the HD800's qualities tend to explore the Eddie Current range, while those wanting to flavour the HD800 will look at the Woo offerings. From most accounts the Vali is in the EC camp (though not in the same league). By your own admission you want to colour the HD800 a certain way. 

 
This makes so much sense to me and rings true with many hours of reading - to find an amp for my recently purchased HD800.
 
Bunches of people say I should buy the Woo WA6SE, for example, while others are saying I'll have to go with something exotic (Eddie Current or Cavalli's Liquid Glass, for example). But hidden in the two schools of thought, are the distinctions you've made, here - that one approach compensates the HD800 by coloring it and adding distortion - as you said earlier, "stifling" some of its desirable traits (resolution), while the other approach preserves its desirable traits, while giving the HD800 what it wants (without coloration or distortion.)  
 
I can't afford the Eddie Current and Cavalli offerings, so I'm going to do myself a favor and stop right here, at the Vali, which, as you've implied, gets me in the same camp, but not the same class of performance. So be it.  The Vali > HD800 gives me a unique and very desirable experience that I don't get with my other amp/headphone combinations - allowing the HD800 to perform true to its design - well enough that I want to keep the H800 - again, with no desire to go hunting for an amp I can't afford or an amp that "stifles" what the HD800 brings to the table.
 
For the record, the single best headphone sound I've personally ever heard (my ears, my tastes) was Jazzerdave's rig, at a meet here in Dallas:  
 
Peachtree iDAC (fed with a USB to S/PIF converter I can't recall) > Cavalli Liquid Glass (with who knows which tubes) > HD800
 
My Concero > Vali > HD800 doesn't get me there, but no other DAC/amp combo I've tried gets me any closer - certainly nothing solid state.
 
I'm really glad FlySweep recommended the Vali for my HD800, otherwise, I would probably end up selling it for lack of willingness to spend big bucks on an amp that's in the same camp. 
 
Mike

 

[olor1n]

That's why I felt compelled to post a response. Dramatic statements about treble can be misconstrued and lead people to overlook the Vali. Dismissing it without giving thought to flaws originating further upstream or simply because it fails to act as an EQ.

This is a great disservice IMO. Those who've lived with the HD800 know how fickle this headphone is and historically a hefty investment followed the pursuit to get it to perform adequately. The Vali bucks that trend and deserves to be one of the first recommended to those building a system around the HD800. It's an affordable gateway to summit-fi.

 

[jaywillin]

That's why I felt compelled to post a response. Dramatic statements about treble can be misconstrued and lead people to overlook the Vali. Dismissing it without giving thought to flaws originating further upstream or simply because it fails to act as an EQ.

This is a great disservice IMO. Those who've lived with the HD800 know how fickle this headphone is and historically a hefty investment followed the pursuit to get it to perform adequately. The Vali bucks that trend and deserves to be one of the first recommended to those building a system around the HD800. It's an affordable gateway to summit-fi.

very much agree, i've got a friend wanting to try the lcd2, which is finicky about amplification too, he's worried about having to go large
with an amp to start out, i told him to get a vali for now, it drives the lcd2 just fine, i'm listening to the pair right now !

 

[purrin]

olor1n and zilch0md are two guys who get it.
 
The Vali sounds nothing like the tube amps with added warmth, syrup, and rolled-off highs. Amps in this category would include the Lebens, Woo WA2, HFM EF-5, etc. This is known as "goo-factor" and what most people think "tubes" sound like when in fact this is "tubes done wrong", at least from an audio engineering point of view. (Tubes have been and were used in music production until the mid 80s - for obvious reasons, it's crucial that such studio or production gear not have a high goo-factor). High goo-factor amps add a significant amount of pleasant and forgiving coloration while at the same time also subtracting musical information by blunting attacks, taking away bite, masking low level information, slowing down bass. There is absolutely nothing wrong with high goo-factor tube amps. They can work well with the HD800 depending upon how one views the HD800.
 
The Vali is not a high goo-factor amp. However, the Vali still does provide a sense of inner warmth. This is what I would consider "tubey", or at least "tubes done right". Another word which I threw out about 593 posts ago was "wet" (opposite of dry or wooden.) In that sense, the Vali, despite it being a hyrid amp, is actually fairly "tubey" (even then, this effect is very subtle and the uninitiated may not immediately recognize it); and tubey on level of such amps as the EC Zana Deux or DNA Stratus. Neither of the specific aforementioned EC or DNA models gloss things over or warm things up to mush, but they do provide a smooth liquid presentation which is seldom heard in pure solid-state amps. Both the EC and DNA still provide plenty of air, and lots of bite and attack, with the DNA is a bit smoother with less etch in the mid treble.
 
Where I'm getting at here is that at real-life musical performances, I hear a LOT of treble energy, bite from trumpets, violins, cymbal smashes, etc. But there's still a naturalness to how his massive treble energy is hear. It doesn't hurt my ears. The issue I have with most solid-state amps is that they don't render this treble information in a way that doesn't hurt. I don't think tubes nail the treble 100% either (there's that wet euphonic coloration going on), but at least that artificial solid-state treble edge, glare, splash is taken off.
 
BTW, the tube amp which reminds me most of the Vali is the ECZD. (At least in style of presentation - make no mistake, the ECZD kicks the Vali's ass, as it should.) Both amps have moderately high output impedance of about 8-12, a euphonic "wet" sound, and not much taken away from the treble. All the bite and zing is still going to be there, but without artificial solid-state treble nasties. For some people, this will still not be enough to tame the peculiarities of the HD800. It's a balancing act. How far is one willing to go to make the HD800 listenable? If we go too far, we start to lose out of the technicalities the HD800 is capable of reproducing.

 

[zilch0md]

Oh gee, I'm reluctant to offer a contradicting opinion, but there's no accounting for my taste, so here goes...  
 
I've had the LCD-2 rev.1 for three years now and first, I don't find it to be anywhere near as "finicky" about amps, as the HD800.  Secondly, it can sound marginally "OK" on relatively weak amps - as long as they are neutral and transparent.  The LCD-2 does, however, scale very rewardingly when given additional power - with Audeze support recommending a minimum of 1W rms into 50 Ohms.  
 
In my opinion, every amp I own or have ever owned sounds better than the Vali with the LCD-2. The Vali just doesn't have enough power to control the bass or even the mids. It sounds congested with the LCD-2.  There's a lack of control and poor dynamics. 
 
Mike

 

[jaywillin]

i have the lcd2r2, and i've not head the hd800 at all, i didn't mean to imply that the lcd is as finicky as it is, i have no idea
and maybe finicky was a bad choice of words,
i'm able to listen to the lcd through the vali, and the mjo, and change on the fly, i have a balanced cable and adapter
from chris_himself, i have a wadia 121 feeing both amps, while the vali isn't as good as the mjo
it is still enjoyable to listen too
thats just my experience and opinion, we all got different ears, so its all good !!
oh, and i enjoy my grado's out of the vali as well, is it as good as my mad ear+ hd ? no, but its damn good

 

[Sonido]

Why not have it all? Why choose? I think it's nice to be able to have an amp that plays the HD800 true to its sound and one that alters it for a different presentation. I think the Vali actually allows more detail and an analytical approach for the HD800 over Crack. But it's also lacking in body and becomes more of a studio recording session than a relaxing, enjoy the music session. It all depends on what you want to achieve.

 

[grizzlybeast]

the vali or odac is smoothing out/taming/reducing my bass and attack and I don't like it. 
 
i need to figure this out.

 

[sling5s]

To me the Vali is one of the best sounding amp I have heard.  Not just in it's price range.  
Notice I didn't say one of the best performing amp.  It lack the bass authority, punch and control not to mention wide soundstage.  
I have listened to many amps but most in the $500 to $1200 range and many were "bright and dry" (like O2) or "warm and dry" (V200).  Very few had the "sweetness" or if you call it "wetness" that really made them enjoyable for me.  The only amp that comes close to the sound signature of the Vali come from old Vintage Pioneer Receivers (SX-737).  They were/are musical, sweet with a sight warmth with an engaging and lively sound.   Anyways, I love the sweet sounding signature with the great micro-details that it provides. 
 
Thanks Purrin.  You were right 

  on this.  I also owe you for the TP mod on the LCD-2.1.  

 

[darthian123]

Would anyone recommend using sensitive IEMs with the Vali? I'm planning to buy an amp to pair with Modi and my customs, but struggling whether to get the Vali or Magni. Can anyone offer help please? Thanks a lot

 

[sling5s]

If need to use impedance adaptor, with sensitive IEM. I use it with my jh13 with the vali and it's sounds great. It reduces most of the hiss but not all

 

[tehsprayer]

  Would anyone recommend using sensitive IEMs with the Vali? I'm planning to buy an amp to pair with Modi and my customs, but struggling whether to get the Vali or Magni. Can anyone offer help please? Thanks a lot

You would be much better off with the magni or o2. Escpecially the o2, it has a very low noise floor from what i've heard.

 

[Spiral Out]

I get a fair amount of noise with my Grado SR225 (32 ohms) with the Vali. It's not really noticeable when music is playing. I would think an headphone below 32 ohm and high sensitivity would be unsuitable with the Vali, unless you had an adaptor to raise the impedance as others have suggested.

 

[darthian123]

  You would be much better off with the magni or o2. Escpecially the o2, it has a very low noise floor from what i've heard.

 
 

If need to use impedance adaptor, with sensitive IEM. I use it with my jh13 with the vali and it's sounds great. It reduces most of the hiss but not all

 
 

  I get a fair amount of noise with my Grado SR225 (32 ohms) with the Vali. It's not really noticeable when music is playing. I would think an headphone below 32 ohm and high sensitivity would be unsuitable with the Vali, unless you had an adaptor to raise the impedance as others have suggested.

 
Thanks guys! Actually is the adaptor going to affect the sound quality?