[Exacoustatowner]

I got my Ragnarok yesterday. I must say it really lives up to its reputation.
My source is the Oppo BDP105D with balanced cables. I'm listening with HiFIMan HE-560, and Paradigm Reference Studio 40 V3's. Stunning soundstage and instrument placement from the speakers. A very sweet tone I indeed!
I compares the single ended out to my Lyr with NICE NOS tubes with short repeated snippets of Mahler 8 from either within a second. The Lyr did very well but I give the nod to the Ragnarok on clarity and tone. My Yamaha "Natural Sound" Reciever did not fare well. I also compared the OppoBDP105D built in HP amp (which is well thought of) and it came in behind the Lyr.
It is important to consider the tubes used make a big difference.
I want to say the balanced is better

 

[johnjen]

snip
I felt I could have easily swapped in more romantic sounding tubes into my amp and achieved a similar if not greater sound, because the yggy gave more resolving audience applause.
So that was proof that the yggy was the more accurate one..

I have that option to change sound because I use a tube amp.
Thats why I would only recomend a tube amp to anyone looking for an amp.
I wont want to be responsible for suggesting an amp that is "fixed" in signature,
which is what all Solid State amps are..

The counter point to this is…
 
With most tube amps there is no reference to call a base line.
 
Which means all of the experience gained is based upon a subjective set of expectations and interactions with the rest of the system.
This leads to 2 distinct outcomes…
1. drawing conclusions concerning which set of tubes causes a particular set of results can be as much a reaction to and consequence of the rest of the systems 'colorations'.  Which in some cases can make for 
'confusion', especially when these colorations are not the same in a different system, and the same tubes are used.
 
2. Tubes age, and are as a result a 2 layer variable.
I call this a varaible, variable.
 
And while the harmonic structure of tubes (mostly even order harmonics are added) is unlike (especially) bi-polar devices, the same doesn't necessarily apply to fets and other 'tube like' devices, which are also much more stable thru time.
Perhaps, an SS amp will be made that can dial in the tube sound to match the specifics of a desired 'coloration' to better match the rest of the system.
 
But then another way to approach this is to negate (as much as possible) ANY deviation from the original signal, except for those changes/modification which are desired.
 
Just some food for thought.
 
JJ

 

[Argo Duck]

^ One antidote to which is to maintain both a tube and SS ('baseline') amp.

Which is what some of us do. It helps detect tube drift and provides a relatively stable reference during tube-rolling.

 

[Maxx134]

Those amplifiers with discrete output stages are probably "fixed" in design.

Wish that were so..... .

Then I could put to rest the DIY demons in my head. :evil:

Haha good point.
From a DIY perspective you can do anything.

The counter point to this is…

but I dont like a "counter point, because it aludes to other topics I may dissagree with,
And which I am already decidedly certain of my conclusions and not like to have to explain

...
With most tube amps there is no reference to call a base line.

I hope this opinion isnt taken as factual because you would be dismissing and missing out on what true good tube amps are about..

You stated "most" , I can understand but I am not talking about "most" tube amps..
I am talking about in reference to the best tube amps.
They themselves are reference points for other amps to hope to achieve.
....

And while the harmonic structure of tubes...

The majic of tubes is not actually inherent in any one parameter such as the most often noted "harmonics" or "harmonic structure", or else it would have already been achieved with solid state.

While I did suggest the choice of using a "romantic" or "colored" sounding tube,
It was for that specific purpose to emulate a bit of what was going on with the Lamp4 dac, by using tubes,

Yet the true strength of tubes,
is when you look past the stereotype of harmonics, or sound signature.

Is to realize it is ALSO giving you more of what can be achieved in other topologies

That being the characteristics & impressions of life, soul, air and space...
With soundstaging being a particular strength & strong point of best tube designs.

...
But then another way to approach this is to negate (as much as possible) ANY deviation from the original signal, except for those changes/modification which are desired.

Yes I concure that no deviation would be ideal,
But thats more of a goal,
Not an actual occurance..

I myself prefer clarity over any type of signature, and my journey has still ended up with tubes.

I loved my past solid state gear up to my HA-1,
But climbing that ladder to get closer to end game,
Has shown me that tubes cannot be beat.

Just some food for thought.

JJ

Haha!
You served up a food for thought I dont eat! Lol

 

[johnjen]

^ One antidote to which is to maintain both a tube and SS ('baseline') amp.

Which is what some of us do. It helps detect tube drift and provides a relatively stable reference during tube-rolling.

That's a good idea in order to help with experimentation and the process of dialing in your system.
 
I can see me obsessing over 'changes', if I had a setup such as that.
Like wondering if the leading edge of those cymbals resolved like it did the last time I checked, etc. etc.
It would likely drive me crazy with 2nd guessing about those, just at the limits of perceptability, acoustic nuances.
 
JJ :thumb

 

[johnjen]

snip

That being the characteristics & impressions of life, soul, air and space...
With soundstaging being a particular strength & strong point of best tube designs.
Yes I concure that no deviation would be ideal,
But thats more of a goal,
Not an actual occurance..

Ah but one can approach this lofty goal, especially when and as colorations and limitations are reduced.

I myself prefer clarity over any type of signature, and my journey has still ended up with tubes.

I have traveled this path but in reverse, from tubes to SS…

I loved my past solid state gear up to my HA-1,
But climbing that ladder to get closer to end game,
Has shown me that tubes cannot be beat.

Haha!
You served up a food for thought I dont eat! Lol

I understand, having lived with tubes for many a year, I also was smitten with their sonic loveliness.
 
Now a days I prefer the less is more/simplicity approach where changes made elsewhere in the system are more readily apparent.
 
So did you try the 16Hz EQ trick with your 800's, just to see if it made a helpful change?
 
JJ

 

[Argo Duck]

Luckily I don't have the time to obsess - about that at least
But yes I can see how that could happen...

That's a good idea in order to help with experimentation and the process of dialing in your system.

I can see me obsessing over 'changes', if I had a setup such as that.
Like wondering if the leading edge of those cymbals resolved like it did the last time I checked, etc. etc.
It would likely drive me crazy with 2nd guessing about those, just at the limits of perceptability, acoustic nuances.

JJ :thumb

 

[wink]

Quote:Argo Duck

 Luckily I don't have the time to obsess

Make the time..... 

 

[Argo Duck]

^ Ha! The :evil: you say LOL

 

[Maxx134]

Now a days I prefer the less is more/simplicity approach where changes made elsewhere in the system are more readily apparent.

So did you try the 16Hz EQ trick with your 800's, just to see if it made a helpful change?

JJ

Yes I agree very much to the " less is more" approach,

The other aspect to this is that ,
I no longer prefer to use EQ or some great apps for adding soundstage like "out of your head" program,
All because of the persuit of getting closer to original source..

As for the HD800 I used to EQ a while back, but found that it although it certainly help with bass,
It could not fully solve the problem of ear fatigue caused by source gear..
Problem solved with yggy.

 

[reddog]

Arg god hates me lol, had a black out for 40 minutes and now I must rewarm up my yggy. I need to get a power back up, I really do. The Yggdrasil still sounds very nice, but the jaw dropping magic producing awe is gone. I am hoping it will come back within a day.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Arg god hates me lol, had a black out for 40 minutes and now I must rewarm up my yggy. I need to get a power back up, I really do. The Yggdrasil still sounds very nice, but the jaw dropping magic producing awe is gone. I am hoping it will come back within a day.

Sorry Reddog. I think you need a backup power supply-perhaps with a generator. Having to use candles or a flashlight is no big deal. However, losing the Magic is thing another altogether. 

 

[Synergist969]

    Sorry to hear that reddog...my weather in Orlando is about on par with yours in Bradenton/Sarasota...afternoon thunderstorms and the occasional "enthusiastic" lightning strike just close enough to keep all those local transformers a bit "jostled"...luckily for me so far, no power outages for more than a second or two, though I know it is just a matter of time before mine is off for the dreaded, "sorry about the magic" time period to occur...SO...
 
    Understanding that the Yggdrasil draws about 35 watts at idle(?)...if not an auxiliary power generator, just what UPS unit would one recommend for that ever so sensitive "Yggy"...assuming that the power may not be turned on for in excess of an hour or more?  
 
    Recommendations for good/reliable brands/capacities would be very welcome...???...
 
  Oh, and would there be any possibility/rational that using the power from a well isolated/filtered UPS unit would actually improve on the function/performance of "Yggy"?...  

 

[reddog]

    Sorry to hear that reddog...my weather in Orlando is about on par with yours in Bradenton/Sarasota...afternoon thunderstorms and the occasional "enthusiastic" lightning strike just close enough to keep all those local transformers a bit "jostled"...luckily for me so far, no power outages for more than a second or two, though I know it is just a matter of time before mine is off for the dreaded, "sorry about the magic" time period to occur...SO...

    Understanding that the Yggdrasil draws about 35 watts at idle(?)...if not an auxiliary power generator, just what UPS unit would one recommend for that ever so sensitive "Yggy"...assuming that the power may not be turned on for in excess of an hour or more?  

    Recommendations for good/reliable brands/capacities would be very welcome...???...

  Oh, and would there be any possibility/rational that using the power from a well isolated/filtered UPS unit would actually improve on the function/performance of "Yggy"?...  

+1 good questions. I am new at this aspect of the hobby.

 

[bfreedma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog


+1 good questions. I am new at this aspect of the hobby.




Give one of these some consideration:



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage



It's a pure sign wave output UPS - the 1000VA model should keep a 35 watt load running for over two hours. You could move up to the 1500VA for more run time, which might not be a bad idea in sunny/stormy Florida.