[HolyCheese]

Okay I measured X1's cable and the impedance is:
 
right channel = 30.1
left channel = 30.9
cable with 3.5mm converter = 1.7
cable without the converter = 1.7
A cheap 5$ cable (1m) = 0.3
Sennheiser 5x8 cable = 0.5
 
I actually did hear a difference when I listened to the cheap cable, didn't spend enough time to see if it was a positive or a negative difference but it was there nonetheless. I noticed a change in de frequency response, mids seemed more present. I first blamed this on the cable just being bad, since i'm not really a cable believer. But measuring this is kind of an eye opener. Maybe cables do make a difference and since the measurement say the cheap cable is better there might be better cables and they don't need to be expensive. I'm thinking about buying this cable: http://dx.com/p/jinsanjiao-3-5mm-male-to-male-audio-connection-cable-150cm-108618 any other suggestions?
 
I want to try out this new toy a little more, does anyone know how to measure the output impedance?
 
 
Edit: Okay, now i'm using my interconnects, measured at about 0.2 Ohms and these is definitely an increase in sound, detail and quality! I didn't expect this! I'm using some 6 or 7$ interconnects from that same site.  
Please note that these changes might be noticable here, but not for someone else. I think this might also depend on the source, (e10 here) If that has a high output impedance or something, that might be it.
Holy smokes! What a difference, bass is much better. Voices sound more real. If that cable above sounds as good as this interconnect then it's very much worth the $10. 
Currently, my e10 hangs in the air since the interconnects are only ~15cm. Not the best solution.

 

[Impulse]

The Philips news is mildly disappointing, they had one of the most improved headphone lineups amongst mainstream brands over the last year IMO... Even their lower end stuff was a nice step up over some of the other mainstream brands, it was nice to see such a strong lineup backed with wide distribution.

There's been some fire sales on their Citiscape line lately (Metro, Downtown, and Uptown), not sure if that's at all related. I hope the Japanese company doesn't decide to scrap the lineup or completely overhaul it later in the year, they've got a really good thing going, not just with the X1/Fidelios.

Beats' hype and PR is gobbling up most of what's actually a rapidly growing market, sigh...

 

[Impulse]

I can PM you some links about how to measure output impedance HolyCheese, how'd you measure the cable's impedance? Just curious...

The E10's output impedance is under 1 ohm btw so that shouldn't be an issue either way.

 

[korzena]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/01/29/world/europe/ap-eu-netherlands-earns-philips.html?smid=pl-share
 
Does it mean Philips is selling headphones "department", too?

 

[HolyCheese]

I used a multimeter. I pressed the probe to both ends of the cable tightly and waited for the numbers to settle. I tried ground + and -, there wasn't much variantion between the two. Sometimes the ground was a bit lower. 

 

[Impulse]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/01/29/world/europe/ap-eu-netherlands-earns-philips.html?smid=pl-share

Does it mean Philips is selling headphones "department", too?

Yeah, I highly doubt they'd sell off the larger TV and home audio divisions and retain the headphone one... That article does say something very interesting that I didn't see in the Reuters one posted before tho:

" Funai will assume responsibility for the manufacturing of the Philips products but license and sell them under the Philips brand for five years. It has an option to renew. "

That means they value the existing brand enough to retain it for the foreseeable future, which is hopefully a positive sign for the existing designs and models IMO.

 

[Impulse]

I used a multimeter. I pressed the probe to both ends of the cable tightly and waited for the numbers to settle. I tried ground + and -, there wasn't much variantion between the two. Sometimes the ground was a bit lower. 

If you're measuring solely the wire it's technically resistance and not impedance... Sub-1 ohm would kinda be within margin of error for a lot of millimeters (the leads themselves can have a >0.1 ohm resistance), tough you're clearly seeing a larger difference with the Philips cable and apparently hearing it as well. Personally I'd get some help to try a blind test with them.

 

[aidenn]

Yeah, please do a blind test, since you have two cables. If the cable is really faulty (and that's what it'd be - faulty) then we'll all need to replace it. I'm not a believer in cable magic too, I need proof before I succumb and buy a cable, even a cheap one.
 

 

[HolyCheese]

I already distracted the resistance of the probes.
 
I could do a blind test. I might just buy a 10 dollar "high end" chinese cable but that means it will take a month before those items arive. Unless someone knows an ebay seller which sells above normal quality cables for ~10 dollars. Ebay is faster most of the time. I'll ask someone to assist in the blind test with the very cheap cable. I can't really blind test the cable that made a pretty big difference (read easy noticable) because I can feel it would be that one.
I'll see what I can do.

 

[ruffra]

Just to say much earlier in this thread I said that the standard cable on the X1's was limiting their overall performance. I am glad someone else has now found the same thing 

 
For information I have tried a number of cable types and settled on a silver plated high purity copper type which is very good.  I'm afraid it costs a lot more than 10$ though!!!     Try 150$
However  its quite easy to experiment with a 3.5mm jack at the phone end.
 
Still with the discounted X1 costs and expensive cable I still only paid the recommended retail price of the Phones and have something much better.  With the right amp they are the equal of my Beyer T1's but with a different sound signature. 
 
Good luck with trying different cables.

 

[Impulse]

$150 for a cable, any cable, is just highway robbery and snake oil... IMO

 

[anodyne]

Seems to get better with shorter length? This could probably be something out of audiophile nutball territory, but could there be circumstances where length differences like those could affect the damping factor (or some such thing) of the circuit?

 

[ruffra]

Quote:

$150 for a cable, any cable, is just highway robbery and snake oil... IMO

I too was unconvinced about 15 years ago about differences that cable can make to a set up.  Anything better than bell wire should do in theory.  In practice that's just not the case and unfortunately it can be a costly business to get to the best solution for specific equipment and conditions. Just think that Cable acts as a form of passive equaliser between sources and amplification and you will get the picture.
 
If you think $150 is daylight robbery you want to see Siltech pricing structure!!!!
 
By the way how much is snake oil and how do you apply it for improved audio performance 

 
 I believe the issue with stock X1 cable is not only to be due to resistance by also higher capacitance between conductor and insulator giving rise to some higher frequency dielectric attenuation as well.  

 

[HolyCheese]

It is measured that a silver cable has a more present 5khz-10khz area. So that is something that is there. 
But honestly, I don't really think these is an audible difference in a 0.2 Ohm 10 dollar cable and a 0.2 Ohm 200 dollar cable.
But I haven't tried this yet! So it might not be true.

 

[rixlbg]

Quote:

The Philips news is mildly disappointing, they had one of the most improved headphone lineups amongst mainstream brands over the last year IMO... Even their lower end stuff was a nice step up over some of the other mainstream brands, it was nice to see such a strong lineup backed with wide distribution.

There's been some fire sales on their Citiscape line lately (Metro, Downtown, and Uptown), not sure if that's at all related. I hope the Japanese company doesn't decide to scrap the lineup or completely overhaul it later in the year, they've got a really good thing going, not just with the X1/Fidelios.

Beats' hype and PR is gobbling up most of what's actually a rapidly growing market, sigh...

 
Jesus, Impulse, you just read my mind. Exactly what I was thinking, but you exposed much better than I could.
 
After decades making cheap crappo headphones, Philips just recently decided to go serious with them and was able to make a great job with new Fidelio, O'Neill and Citiscape lines, and now, less than one year after releasing their first Fidelio headphone, the L1, they decide to sell the business. Very disappointing. The new company just could think: "The headphone business is not that important, and Beats is making too tough to compete, so let's just go back to cheap crappy headphones or end the production all together." 
 
Of course, Funai could love Philips new headphones and think the investment in them should increase. But I guess that would be too good to be true... (
 
Well, let's see, but if someone really wants a X1, I would buy it sooner than later. 
 
Cheers.