New Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Generation)

[mswlogo]

Looks like I'm out of the Beyerdynamic T1.2 camp.
 
I've had them for a week and all was fine being driven by a Mojo.
 
Then the top of my head started to hurt. I think I could have made them work with a little strategic foam to better distribute the weight but for the price I didn't want to do that.
Maybe 20 years ago with a thicker mop on top I would not have noticed
 
I had other headphones on my list to try when I got the T1.2's (which I got for pretty good deal from Beach Camera for $900 with $200 of extra's I didn't need or want).
 
So I sent them back and just received a pair of HiFiMan X V2's. These list for $100 more but not many deals to be found and cost me $400+ more than T1.2's
 
They are definitely a step up from T1.2's. No question.
 
Few notable differences.
 
They are extremely comfortable (but ask again in a week).
They are very large.
They are very loud to co-worker neighbors. Generally that's true for all open back's but the T1.2's were exceptionally quiet in that regard and qiute doable in the office if you didn't blast them.
The supplied cord with X.V2 is much more user friendly. T1.2 was too long, too heavy and wanted to coil up with the slightest twist.
 
I think it's unusual the T1.2's bothered the top of my head, I did see other complaints googling around. Perhaps I would have adapted over time.
 
These headphones are for the office so I will have to play them lower than T1.2
 
Driven with a Mojo, the bass is better, they are more airy, more detailed, without being bright or harsh. Even though X.V2 are easier to drive, I've had the mojo up just as high but they are so clear and crisp my ears can take that SPL. So you have to be more careful with these. Not sure about fatigue yet, T1.2's were definitely good their, I expect similar with X.V2.
 
I'd still recommend T1.2's for folks to try. But at the typical $1100 street price I'd try HiFi Man X V2's for $1300.
 
If neighbor noise is a concern the T1.2's is a clear winner. All else I think the HiFi Man is worth the extra $200 (common street price difference). But deals keep popping up on T1.2's as low as $700.

 

[HOWIE13]

You can try forza audioworks cables.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661441/forza-audioworks-impressions-thread

Awesome, and they do T1 cables!

 

[VoyagerDude]

Hi fellow headfiers.
After lurking here for a while I finally ordered a pair of T1 2nd gen from amazon.ca. The price was good, so I decided to give it a go.
Amazon delivered in 2 days as promised, my only issue with them is that it arrived in the beyerdynamic box with shipping labels pasted directly on it! Boo amazon.
 
Impressions... I really really wanted to be blown away by the T1. Right now I have a pair of AKG K712PRO for my home setup and a Marantz HD DAC1. The combo produces a wonderfully wide, spacious, rich and creamy sound. The vocals from the K712 sing right in the centre of my head, instruments are nicely separated in space. Hoped it would only get better with the T1.
My source material is all FLAC in 16/44 with a fair bit of 24/96 tracks as well a fair number of DSD recordings. Mostly jazz, guitar, some rock and other stuff.
 
Well the initial impression from the T1 was a but underwhelming. Comfort, fit and finish are great. Coming from K712 the soundstage is not as wide as I hoped. The bass is lighter too, but more controlled. The clarity of the upper frequencies is better and more detailed with the T1. Overall the T1 sounds drier to my ears. Dare I say the K712 sounds more musical and open.
 
What's wrong with me?

 

[Find the Door]

Hi fellow headfiers.
After lurking here for a while I finally ordered a pair of T1 2nd gen from amazon.ca. The price was good, so I decided to give it a go.
Amazon delivered in 2 days as promised, my only issue with them is that it arrived in the beyerdynamic box with shipping labels pasted directly on it! Boo amazon.

Impressions... I really really wanted to be blown away by the T1. Right now I have a pair of AKG K712PRO for my home setup and a Marantz HD DAC1. The combo produces a wonderfully wide, spacious, rich and creamy sound. The vocals from the K712 sing right in the centre of my head, instruments are nicely separated in space. Hoped it would only get better with the T1.
My source material is all FLAC in 16/44 with a fair bit of 24/96 tracks as well a fair number of DSD recordings. Mostly jazz, guitar, some rock and other stuff.

Well the initial impression from the T1 was a but underwhelming. Comfort, fit and finish are great. Coming from K712 the soundstage is not as wide as I hoped. The bass is lighter too, but more controlled. The clarity of the upper frequencies is better and more detailed with the T1. Overall the T1 sounds drier to my ears. Dare I say the K712 sounds more musical and open.

What's wrong with me?

Nothing - the T1s are a lot closer can than the 712 Pros. Really you sound a lot like me - I prefer the separation myself and really enjoy a wide soundstage. I had the 712 Pros and dismissed them because they lacked that detail in the highs and sounded like a pillow was in between you and the driver.

I jumped to the HD800-S (Black) and was really underwhelmed at first. I thought the K712 Pros soundstage was much much better. Then I decided to get a better amp (upgraded to the Schiit Jotunheim) and wow what a difference. I can safely say the HD800-S maintains the same separation of the 712s if not further but also takes details in the highs to another level beyond the T1s. It's probably the perfect headphone for you (as it was for me) just make sure you drive it properly.

 

[VoyagerDude]

Thank you for your detailed answer.
I don't really want to change my DAC Amp at this time. Would the Marantz HD DAC1 sufficient to drive the HD 800S? It's 300 ohm vs the T1 600 ohm. And would it sound at its potential.
I'm also thinking about the AKG k812pro as a slightly cheaper alternative to 800S with less resistance.

 

[VoyagerDude]

The way the k712 separates the instruments is really amazing. And the centre stage is spot on in the middle of my head. Feels like it's tickling your brain
Wonder if the k812 maintains that or the hd800s.

 

[Kramer01]

Thank you for your detailed answer.
I don't really want to change my DAC Amp at this time. Would the Marantz HD DAC1 sufficient to drive the HD 800S? It's 300 ohm vs the T1 600 ohm. And would it sound at its potential.
I'm also thinking about the AKG k812pro as a slightly cheaper alternative to 800S with less resistance.

Even though Sennheiser advertises the HD800S as being 300 ohm the avg impedance is closer to 400 ohm and at some frequencies it rises to 700 ohm. These TOTL cans require quality amplification(stout current levels and good voltage swing) and you NEED a good stand alone amp to get the full potential out of them. I would say look at DT1990 or Amiron home if you want a beyerdynamic, or HD700(street price 420$ new on amazon) if you want a better headphone than the K712.

 

[Kramer01]

  Hi fellow headfiers.
After lurking here for a while I finally ordered a pair of T1 2nd gen from amazon.ca. The price was good, so I decided to give it a go.
Amazon delivered in 2 days as promised, my only issue with them is that it arrived in the beyerdynamic box with shipping labels pasted directly on it! Boo amazon.
 
Impressions... I really really wanted to be blown away by the T1. Right now I have a pair of AKG K712PRO for my home setup and a Marantz HD DAC1. The combo produces a wonderfully wide, spacious, rich and creamy sound. The vocals from the K712 sing right in the centre of my head, instruments are nicely separated in space. Hoped it would only get better with the T1.
My source material is all FLAC in 16/44 with a fair bit of 24/96 tracks as well a fair number of DSD recordings. Mostly jazz, guitar, some rock and other stuff.
 
Well the initial impression from the T1 was a but underwhelming. Comfort, fit and finish are great. Coming from K712 the soundstage is not as wide as I hoped. The bass is lighter too, but more controlled. The clarity of the upper frequencies is better and more detailed with the T1. Overall the T1 sounds drier to my ears. Dare I say the K712 sounds more musical and open.
 
What's wrong with me?

The K712 is a texturally dry sounding headphone which gives the impression of greater separation. Its not very well extended in the bass frequencies so the moment you listen to a headphone that has decent tonal mass, good bass extension and slam it will seem that the k712 is the better headphone but that is not the case.
 
I agree with your impression that bass on the T1 can seem to be light and it will sound lighter.The T1 offers wonderful extension and bass quality; however, the bass quantity will depend a great deal on the amplifier you pair it with. It is light if its under amped and it will lack impact. 
 
The T1's sound is all about speed and it boasts one of the fastest-sounding decays of all dynamic headphones maybe this is why you found it to be drier.

 

[OctavianH]

T1.2 on tube amp has a lot of bass. For me it was too much, and I had to change the tubes to obtain a more neutral sound. So I guess the ones complaining about bass on T1.2 do not proper amplify them.

 

[VoyagerDude]

I actually dont have a problem with the bass.
My bigger issue is the narrower stage when compared to k712.

 

[HOWIE13]

I actually dont have a problem with the bass.
My bigger issue is the narrower stage when compared to k712.

 
Both the K712 and T1 require very good amplificaion to sound at their best. 
 
Yes the AKG has a slightly wider sound -stage but I find the T1 sound is deeper with a more holographic and realistic presentation.
 
They are both very good cans and with the K712 I am listening to very well presented music, but I'm somewhat detached. The T1 involves and engages me in a way the AKG doesn't.
 
For me, the T1 provides that mysterious emotional experience unique to music.

 

[Light - Man]

Some interesting and open discussion with informed views. 

 
I also recently had the T1.2 and was also a little underwhelmed by it even though I ran it in for over 300 hours. I used it with the Mojo and also amped the Mojo with Fiio E12A and A5 amps as well as my Hidizs AP100  DAP (by itself and amped).
 
I rarely found the T1 musical or exciting nor did I find it anything special with fast dynamic music.
 
I am finding the AGK K612 pro more musical and entertaining so far with great vocals and I also find it better for classical music, having said that it is still early days with the K612 and I believe the T1 is more neutral and has better micro detail and is probably more technically proficient, etc.
 
Some say they prefer the K612 over the K712, what do you guys think and what other options do we have? 

 

[dannybgoode]

Some interesting and open discussion with informed views. 

I also recently had the T1.2 and was also a little underwhelmed by it even though I ran it in for over 300 hours. I used it with the Mojo and also amped the Mojo with Fiio E12A and A5 amps as well as my Hidizs AP100  DAP (by itself and amped).

I rarely found the T1 musical or exciting nor did I find it anything special with fast dynamic music.

I am finding the AGK K612 pro more musical and entertaining so far with great vocals and I also find it better for classical music, having said that it is still early days with the K612 and I believe the T1 is more neutral and has better micro detail and is probably more technically proficient, etc.

Some say they prefer the K612 over the K712, what do you guys think and what other options do we have? 

I am another who is so disappointed by the T1.2. I came from the T51P and T90 and dreamt of owning the T1. The day came when I could finally afford them and I was sat by the door like a rabid dog waiting for the postman to drop them off.

I initially ran them on an ifi iDac2 and iCan SE and latterly a Beyerdynamic A1 and Reg's DAC so I cannot be accused of not feeding them from a quality source or under amping them.

I thought they were ok-certainly way more capable and technical than the T90's but much much less enjoyable. I just couldn't connect with them, they didn't portray any emotion and I felt they were just a bit lifeless and missing something. The bass extension is particularly lacking.

They do have some good points-separation is very good and they are very neutral, Timing is also very good and build quality and comfort first class.

Next up the Elear though. Yes more coloured but a much much better headphone imo and for the money would be what I recommend.

As I say I so wanted to like the T1 but alas they just didn't do it for me. My t90's on the other hand are not going anywhere

 

[Kramer01]

Originally Posted by VoyagerDude /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I actually dont have a problem with the bass.
My bigger issue is the narrower stage when compared to k712.

In my book the Q/K7_ _ series are just variations and not different headphones. There is the Austria China manufacturing debate but from what I can remember having owned a Q701 and K702 the minimal sound difference is more likely due to driver variations.

There are several factors to consider when evaluating headphone soundstage:

1. Width is how wide left and right the soundstage is.

2. Depth is how far the soundstage extends in front of you.

3. Center area is how well can a headphone fill in the area in front of your face, and not just the area on the sides.

4. Separation is how clearly separated are one instrument from the next.

5. Imaging is how true-to-life is the reproduction of the arrangements of the band/orchestra.

Having established those parameters, the K/Q7 __ series scores very highly in the width and instrument separation, where you can see every instruments being individually isolated and laid out on the wide soundstage. The most famous aspect of the K/Q7__ is its soundstage. Indeed, the K/Q7__ has a very wide soundstage with clear separation of the instruments. The soundstage is very big, and instruments take a clear and distinct positioning within that soundstage. Despite the famous “soundstage” of the K/Q7__, I actually rank the soundstage performance lowly.  My complaints with the K/Q7__ soundstage is mostly with the imaging performance, as the layout of the band and instruments doesn’t follow a logical live concert pattern. The K/Q7__ soundstage is mostly felt on the left and right side of the head, and with very little information on the front. This may give a false impression of being immersed in the sound, as you would feel the instruments coming distinctly from left and right. But in the real world, bands and orchestras perform in front of you, not on your sides around you. And so the front/center soundstage is very important to a faithful reproduction. This is where the K/Q7__ fails heavily(& the T1 scores a big win), as there is very little information on the front/center area of the soundstage

Another factor that deeply disturbs the K/Q7__ soundstage presentation is the lack of air between the instruments. The K7__ separates the instruments very well with distinct distances between them. Yet, the air is missing. On the K/Q7__, the air pretty much non existent. While that may help give a clearer separation between the instruments, ultimately it makes the instruments disconnected without a proper “air” between them. It would be like taking a photograph of 8 people, cropping them in Photoshop, and laying them out on a squeaky clean white background. You get a very clean look at the subjects, but the photograph wouldn’t look realistic.

I find the soundstage of the T1 to be one of the best out there, though under one condition: good source and amplification. On lesser systems, the K/Q7__ may give a more wide soundstage. Though K/Q7__ will improve with better amplifiers and better sources, the improvement is limited to a certain extent, the limiter is hit earlier.  The T1, on lesser systems, feels fairly closed and claustrophobic. However, as you provide better amplifiers and sources, the T1 improves tremendously. The soundstage will expand tremendously, in the width, but also in the depth. IMHO The T1 certainly has impressive soundstage depth. Not only is the depth very good, but there is a very good projection of instruments that lay in the front and the back area of the stage(provided it's on the recording). The T1 gives a very good ambiance, and playing a well recorded live music album will sound far more engaging and three dimensional than the K/Q7__.  The lack of bass on the K/Q7__ series really poses a problem with 90% of music out there. Perhaps if you listen just to classical then you won’t mind the lack of bass on the K/Q7__ , but even for classical, I do think that the T1 will give a more satisfying performance, albeit with a proper desktop amplifier. 

The T1's soundstage presentation is exceptional, both in size and shape. While it's not as wide as the HD800's soundstage, the T1's soundstage is impressive for its formidable depth. The problem with the K/Q7__ is that you have the big soundstage(width) that sounds impressive at first listen, but then it contributes to the whole lack of focus, no clear sense of direction of the K/Q7__.

 

 

 

[Kramer01]

  Some interesting and open discussion with informed views. 

 
I also recently had the T1.2 and was also a little underwhelmed by it even though I ran it in for over 300 hours. I used it with the Mojo and also amped the Mojo with Fiio E12A and A5 amps as well as my Hidizs AP100  DAP (by itself and amped).
 
I rarely found the T1 musical or exciting nor did I find it anything special with fast dynamic music.
 
I am finding the AGK K612 pro more musical and entertaining so far with great vocals and I also find it better for classical music, having said that it is still early days with the K612 and I believe the T1 is more neutral and has better micro detail and is probably more technically proficient, etc.
 
Some say they prefer the K612 over the K712, what do you guys think and what other options do we have? 

 

I am another who is so disappointed by the T1.2. I came from the T51P and T90 and dreamt of owning the T1. The day came when I could finally afford them and I was sat by the door like a rabid dog waiting for the postman to drop them off.

I initially ran them on an ifi iDac2 and iCan SE and latterly a Beyerdynamic A1 and Reg's DAC so I cannot be accused of not feeding them from a quality source or under amping them.

I thought they were ok-certainly way more capable and technical than the T90's but much much less enjoyable. I just couldn't connect with them, they didn't portray any emotion and I felt they were just a bit lifeless and missing something. The bass extension is particularly lacking.

They do have some good points-separation is very good and they are very neutral, Timing is also very good and build quality and comfort first class.

Next up the Elear though. Yes more coloured but a much much better headphone imo and for the money would be what I recommend.

As I say I so wanted to like the T1 but alas they just didn't do it for me. My t90's on the other hand are not going anywhere

 
The T1 scales up wonderfully but it requires a lot of commitment, especially if you’re new to the hobby. The truth is that I’ve seen a lot of people getting disappointed after reading many over the top reviews and spending $1000-$1200 on a headphone, only to find that it doesn’t work with their setup. I don’t want to be another voice adding up to the damage. The T1 NEEDS a totl amplifier to shine, also don't skimp on the source or you'll never hear the T1 at its best. The ancillaries need to be at the transducers level or else the magic just isn't there. A Bifrost multibit or higher quality DAC is the bare minimum in terms of source plus a good desktop amp which can provide good current levels and high voltage swing is the bare minimum. Match well and you'll know how your music really sounds. like it or not!  
 
Many people find the T1v2 to be boring and I guess that is due to lack of impact. The T1v2 is in the same class as the HD800/HD800S these cans are not tuned for maximum impact and what is there is not massively overstated as is the current fashion. This is audiophile territory and the presentation/sonic flavor is very different to the consumer oriented stuff. While an initial listen may highlight the T1's controlled delivery, a longer listen reveals there’s little missing in the way of drive or entertainment. The T1v2 impresses through a combination of detail resolution, textural information, authority and agility that few rivals match. They dig up a terrific amount of detail and present it in a coherent and musical manner. Listen to Interstellar and Inception OST to check the scale and dynamic reach,There’s no sign of stress or a hint of hardening up, even at higher volume levels.Tonally, things are nicely balanced between the powerful low-end and crisp treble. There is subtly bright character overall, as if someone had begun the voicing process with a flat response (or, at least, what I perceive as a flat response), then turned the treble control up a click or two. This produces a mild treble emphasis with none of the downsides -- listener fatigue, edginess, coarseness -- that often accompany treble emphasis in lesser headphones. Fans of the T1 will call the highs to be liquid/sweet/articulate but its never incisive. 
 
Listen to Moth into a Flame and that shows that these headphones know how to have fun. They deliver the track’s pounding, richly textured bassline and punchy drumming with enthusiasm, capturing the hard-hitting rhythmic flow with ease. The midrange is as impressive as the frequency extremes(though slightly recessed, a smiley face response), with the headphones delivering Papa Het's distinctive vocals with fluidity, conviction and when required, subtlety. The T1's excellent insight means vocal and instrumental tracks are easy to follow, even in a dense mix. The tonal balance of the T1 is accommodative to a wide variety of music. The T1 boasts one of the fastest-sounding decays of all dynamic headphones. The T1 is one of those headphones that has speed, because of this, the sound never feels cluttered. For this reason, I find that the T1's sound signature works well with just about any genre. The T1 offers excellent extension and bass quality, however, the bass quantity will depend a great deal on the amplifier one pairs it with. Bass frequencies require the maximum voltage swing and current. The headphone starts pulling a lot more "power" to present the bass and if your amp can't supply it you will get anemic bass and weak impact.
 
I swap between the HD650 and the T1v2. Whenever I come back to it, I am shocked to be reminded just of how much clarity is offered by the t1 and the amount of nuances/micro-detail it is capable of revealing. In terms of detail, the T1 ranks near the top, even if not quite the top. The HD650 when properly amped scales and is highly detailed but the T1 when given the same advantage is pulls ahead.
 
The T1 is a wonderful all-round choice for someone who appreciates every music genre. At its price-point, the T1 is a top pick provided you know what is on offer.