[MikePio]

Hello everyone!
I am new to this forum, so Hi to all!

I just got into this whole audiophile thing,
First off I listen mostly to classical but I like all types of music. I have the K701's and a MKIII tube amplifier going straight to my computer sound card X-fi, i know its not optimal but im just starting!

Anyways here my question, I have listened to my friends amplifier the solid state headroom micro and compared it between my MKIII tube (only 7 hrs of play on amp) and to be honest, after an hour of comparison we could not tell a dramatic difference between them, I mean we couldn't listen to the liquid mids or smooth sound that is typical of a tube amplifer, don't get me wrong the sound is great but i thought it would be different at least...

Anyways if anyone can give any insight on this subject I would be very grateful! am i going crazy

Thanks,
-Mike.

 

[breakfastchef]

Write back after you put 100 hours on the MKIII. After that, try rolling the driver tubes with one of those recommended in the MKIII Review thread by Penchum. I have a pair of Mullards ready to go in my MKII this week.

 

[MikePio]

Thank you for your reply breakfastchef,
Im assuming you mean by playing the amp 100 hrs it will "burn in" and therefore the sound will be much warmer and smoother, but I am aware that "burn in" also can have a placebo effect, by that i mean you just get used to the sound and it becomes what you want it to become...

Can someone actually explain in technical terms how burn in actually effects the electronic components in the amplifier and how that improves or enhances the sound from the amp itself...

Thanks once again,
-Mike.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Anyways here my question, I have listened to my friends amplifier the solid state headroom micro and compared it between my MKIII tube (only 7 hrs of play on amp) and to be honest, after an hour of comparison we could not tell a dramatic difference between them...

That's because there isn't a dramatic difference between them. The sonic differences between two amps of similar power driving the same load (headphones) is going to be pretty subtle unless one of them is deliberately very colored. Headroom's house signature sound (color) is warm. I don't know your Little Dot, but I'll assume it is a well-designed, well-built amp aimed at providing good control, low noise and a relatively neutral, accurate frequency response. That means it will not sound all that "tubey."

My guess is that the differences are there, but they are very subtle; not something that is going to leap out at you in an hour of listening. A tiny bit more speed in the solid state amp. A touch of upper midrange smoothness in the tubes (might be the same thing). It won't get dramatic with burn-in. Tube rolling is another exercise in subtlety. That's just the way it is. If you want to hear a dramatic difference in sound, buy another pair of headphones; that's where the drama lies. Be happy. If you had a tube amp that sounded dramatically different from a warm solid state amp, there would probably be something wrong with it.

Now, we just sit back and wait for someone to come along and tell you that your source (soundcard vs DAC) isn't good enough to reveal the huge euphoric drama that is currently locked inside your tubes, or that your phones are too good to be driven properly by your amp and therefore, reveal the differences.

Believe your ears. And enjoy. That's a good amp you've got there, and a great set of phones.

Tim

 

[Drag0n]

You should really upgrade your soundcard so it drives your amp with a stronger and cleaner signal. Also, those headphones are way above your equipment, and until you upgrade your dac,etc., im afraid you wont hear the changes well enough. Also dont forget better cables and a headphone recable!!!!

Im joking!!!!!

(Sort of)..................A better soundcard or dac would be an improvement, but really, once you get over a certain point, there are diminishing returns with amps, and one doesnt usually just come along and absolutely blow the other away so obviously. Its mostly smaller differences at that point.

Id say the headphones an amp are pretty good right now, and its hard to recommend what to do about your source because im not so familiar with it. Enjoy!!!

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Im joking!!!!! (Sort of)..................A better soundcard or dac would be an improvement, but really, once you get over a certain point, there are diminishing returns with amps, and one doesnt usually just come along and absolutely blow the other away so obviously. Its mostly smaller differences at that point.

DragOn and I are in complete agreement (well, except for that Zune/iPod thing...). A better DAC my very well make a difference in the quality of your system. That would be almost impossible to judge without knowing more about your soundcard and system. I would not make the immediate assumption that an external DAC, even an expensive one, would make a BIG difference though. If your soundcard is a good quality unit and its ouput stage is strong enough, that might be another upgrade that would have you straining to hear the improvement, wondering if you are talking yourself into hearing it. That doesn't mean it's not an upgrade worth pursuing. But I'd do it with a liberal return policy, so if you come to the conclusion that the improvement is not worth the investment, you can always get your money back.

Caveat emptor. Always. But particularly in a hobby as ripe with myth and wish fulfillment as this one. People will hear and report fantastic, earth-shaking improvements where there are the subtlest, subjective shifts. It's the nature of the beast.

Tim

 

[gdeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's because there isn't a dramatic difference between them... Believe your ears. And enjoy. Tim

this is good advice.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePio /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everyone! I am new to this forum, so Hi to all! I just got into this whole audiophile thing, First off I listen mostly to classical but I like all types of music. I have the K701's and a MKIII tube amplifier going straight to my computer sound card X-fi, i know its not optimal but im just starting! Anyways here my question, I have listened to my friends amplifier the solid state headroom micro and compared it between my MKIII tube (only 7 hrs of play on amp) and to be honest, after an hour of comparison we could not tell a dramatic difference between them, I mean we couldn't listen to the liquid mids or smooth sound that is typical of a tube amplifer, don't get me wrong the sound is great but i thought it would be different at least... Anyways if anyone can give any insight on this subject I would be very grateful! am i going crazy Thanks, -Mike.

First, Welcome!

Here are a few things to consider, and these recommendations are in-line with what current MKIII owners have discovered over the last year:

As always, the source is very important. It is highly recommended that your goal should be to run coaxial digital out from your X-Fi (flexjack), to an external DAC, then RCA's out of the DAC to the MKIII. I use the Zero DAC/Amp for this. Your X-Fi will work just fine as a digital transport, so there is no need to replace it. Using lossless files with this setup will result in some very nice improvements.

There are some rather large capacitors in the MKIII, and they will need time to form. The consensus among MKIII owners, including myself, is that the MKIII really opens up and improves during the first 100 hours.

The biggest sound quality improvement you can do for the MKIII, just happens to be the cheapest. Roll in some quality NOS driver tubes. The MKIII tube rolling thread has many recommendations for excellent tubes.

If your K701's are new, they will need time to mature as well. I have read post after post about it taking 400+ hours for them to open up a little.

There are many opinions to consider, and that is expected.

I would recommend reading and following what the other MKIII owners suggest, since they have already figured out where it is best to spend any additional funds, and they like to get the biggest bang for those funds.

Check out the MKIII tube rolling thread for more specific details. Have a good one!

 

[MikePio]

Thank you very much for all your responses,

I kind of realized that changes are very subtle now when you have equipment at a decently high level, I will consider getting a external DAC one day once I can gather the proper dollars

I am really enjoying my K701's and MKIII combo though, opens up parts of the songs that really I never knew where there before with my px100 lol! Once again thanks, and these responses answer my question perfectly!

Now ill be getting of this forum and paying more attention to the essential music and not getting obsessed over the equipment and taking all the fun away from the real meaning of having headphones: listening and enjoying the beautiful waves of sound!

(by the way this forum rocks, It gave me loads of help with deciding on what equipment to buy or anything related to audio!)

Thanks,
-Mike.

 

[Uncle Erik]

MikePio - I hope you do stick around the forum. It's not just buying gear. You can get a lot out of the Member's Lounge and Music Forums.

As for the amps, I hear a difference between solid state and tubes. It depends on the source, music and headphones used.

Thing is, I can enjoy music from most any good amp. There's some fun in listening for differences, but there's a lot to be said for sticking with a good one and focusing on the music.

If you have an urge to spend money, you might want to pick up a turntable. Technical merits aside, it's one of the best ways to expose yourself to new music. I grub around junk and thrift stores when I can and pick up plenty of cheap vinyl. Like a quarter each or a box for $10. For the price of one CD, you can buy a lot of music. A turntable is worth it just because it opens doors to lots of new music.

 

[MikePio]

I sure will stick around Uncle Erik,

I was debating trying to get a turntable, but they are very expensive, my question is why are they so expensive? and i am assuming records give it a more warm sound with more distortion? If i could get a good deal on them on ebay or somewhere else I would definetaly consider the option. Also i am sure availablilty of certain symphonies or labels or bands are limited and hard to find when dealing with vinyls, so im kind of sitting on the side lines for now with the turntable.

-Mike.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

I was debating trying to get a turntable, but they are very expensive, my question is why are they so expensive? and i am assuming records give it a more warm sound with more distortion?

Depends on what you call distortion. Vinyl definitely has a coloration, and anything deviating from the source is, technically, distortion, I suppose. But vinyl has a sound that a lot of folks love and hold above digital media. Yeah there is surface noise, inner groove distortion...but it's still pretty cool stuff.

Tim