[Sonic Defender]

 
It all depends on how the other parts work together. Throughout the thread you will see different opinions as to what the best volume setting is for the best sound. In your case it is 0db, for me it is -4 to -6db, depending on what music I play and it goes all the way down to -20db for some.
One thing is clear, after I sold my M51 to you and trying a few other DACs, there is not better DAC in that price range. Ton loads of detail, but so easy to listen to for hours. That is why I just bought one back....
 
Once you go M51, you'll never like an other one...

Interesting that you change the gain, can you tell me in what circumstances the various gains yield differing results for you? I might try this and see. Typically I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy. Thanks.

 

[karmanfamily]

From 0 to -4 it sounded more balanced. The high, mid and bass were all equal, without any of them standing out. Going to -6 it became a tad on the warm side. I think it is because the amp has to do a little more work and determines the sound more.
I haven't tried it with the updated software yet though.

 

[Behemoth27]

I'm not sure what if anything will improve the SQ of Tidal. I use Tidal quite a bit and even at 320 it sounds pretty darn good (and I was paying for lossless, but I couldn't really hear a difference). Heck just get JRiver and install the WDM driver. At least on a PC it sounds great and when you play Tidal, it comes through JRiver where if you must you can use DSP if you like. I'm not sure of the true fidelity of the solution, but it really does sound quite good. I'm actually very surprised how good Tidal sounds and I find I rarely use my lossless ripped collection as streaming Tidal is very satisfying. Maybe if I worked at it and wanted to find flaws I could, but frankly nothing seems obviously wrong to me so I say even Tidal right from the browser seems darn good.

Thanks for your reply. I should clarify though. I'm not so much interested in improving the SQ of Tidal, as finding a convenient solution to streaming lossless. To be specific, my Mac mini is probably faulty and I wanted to replace it with a dedicated unit. There's something wrong with the power being supplied to the back panel. For example if I plug in two USB and an Ethernet, at least one of the connections will not work. It's very odd. (I am using a USB powered screen for convenience that I could plop on my couch and therefore control the Mac mini from my sitting position.) Also music will studder for a second whenever I open/close windows. (Probably because it's relaying data from the USB screen, but maybe the CPU isn't pulling its weight either) I was considering buying a new Mac mini but would prefer something that's built for audio and I don't have to have a computer monitor to control. (I have tried airdisplay and similar apps to create a headless Mac that I control from iPad, but found them to be unreliable)

Other than that you're right. The SQ from Tidal is rather impressive. I just want to find a reliable solution that preferably has audio centered components and design.

 

[Aeolus Kratos]

 
Where did you hear the USB input is inferior? Sounds dubious to me. I used the USB on my M51 and recently moved to using the Melodius MX U8 and feed the M51 via AES now, but I can't hear a difference. Now it is very hard to go back and forth between the two inputs so perhaps in blind testing I could hear the difference, but I doubt it. In my experience all of these claims of various sound quality improvements via differing inputs are always non-blind tests so you need to be very careful with those claims. Test it yourself, get a friend to come over and switch between inputs when you are out of the room and when blindfolded see if out of 10 trials 8 out of 10 times you pick the SPDIF as sounding better. If you can, you might have something. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, but the USB section in the M51 is quite good.
 
If you do the blind tests make sure your friend is very careful not to give hints. Tell us if you can reliably pick out the SPDIF input. I admit I tried out of curiosity and frankly as the MX U8 wasn't very expensive so not exactly a big risk. The MX U8 is supposed to be a decent entry level SPDIF converter so I figured why not try? No regrets, it certainly didn't degrade the sound quality, but I can't say it sounds better either.

Hi Sonic Defender,
 
Thanks for your reply. You really got a point here.
 
As for the USB input, I actually did an A/B test for myself, with my own system, my own music - which I'm very familiar with. And I found out the differences between using the USB input and Coaxial input were pretty noticeable. The biggest "improvement" IMHO was when I use my USB - S/PDIF converter feeding my M51, the "egde" and some "digital harsh" were reduced, the sound was much smoother and relaxing. And I really do think the differences are big enough for me not to call a friend come over and help me do a blind test, this is not just my imagination.
 
I'm not saying the M51's USB input is bad, it's just not as good as the coaxial input, with my setup, with my music. So I think the experience varies on your SPDIF converter, your cables, your music...
 
My setup is: Audio GD DI2014 - NAD M51 - Bottlehead Crack - Sennheiser HD650.
 
Cheers,
Kratos.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Other than that you're right. The SQ from Tidal is rather impressive. I just want to find a reliable solution that preferably has audio centered components and design.

I got you, makes sense. I should have clued in as Mac Mini's are older designs. My friend loves Macs, but I'm a simple PC guy as that is what I first learned back in 1998 and have just kept with it. I have heard good things about dedicated streaming devices, but sadly have no direct experience with them. The M51 is really a nice DAC so I'm sure whatever route you go, it will sound great. Let us know what you do and what your impressions are.

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
Hi Sonic Defender,
 
Thanks for your reply. You really got a point here.
 
As for the USB input, I actually did an A/B test for myself, with my own system, my own music - which I'm very familiar with. And I found out the differences between using the USB input and Coaxial input were pretty noticeable. The biggest "improvement" IMHO was when I use my USB - S/PDIF converter feeding my M51, the "egde" and some "digital harsh" were reduced, the sound was much smoother and relaxing. And I really do think the differences are big enough for me not to call a friend come over and help me do a blind test, this is not just my imagination.
 
I'm not saying the M51's USB input is bad, it's just not as good as the coaxial input, with my setup, with my music. So I think the experience varies on your SPDIF converter, your cables, your music...
 
My setup is: Audio GD DI2014 - NAD M51 - Bottlehead Crack - Sennheiser HD650.
 
Cheers,
Kratos.

Cool, but do be aware that doing sighted A/B testing does not eliminate expectation bias so you still need to be careful there. Again, I can't say the difference you hear isn't real, but I can say without blind testing you need to be skeptical to a degree. Ultimately enjoying your rig is what matters and brother, if what you are doing floats your boat I say more power to you. I hear that the DI2014 is excellent. I met an audio engineer here in Ottawa who knows Kingwa from Audio GD personally and this person has built amps for companies that sell for tens of thousands of dollars. He told me he was astounded by how good the Master 7 sounded. 

 

[xxxfbsxxx]

 
Cool, but do be aware that doing sighted A/B testing does not eliminate expectation bias so you still need to be careful there. Again, I can't say the difference you hear isn't real, but I can say without blind testing you need to be skeptical to a degree. Ultimately enjoying your rig is what matters and brother, if what you are doing floats your boat I say more power to you. I hear that the DI2014 is excellent. I met an audio engineer here in Ottawa who knows Kingwa from Audio GD personally and this person has built amps for companies that sell for tens of thousands of dollars. He told me he was astounded by how good the Master 7 sounded. 

actually the usb implementation in Nad is really good, i have tried various popular converters, namely audiophileo, ifi inlink, concero and the built in Nad USB dusted them in most cases. However the DI2014 is a special exception, i tested it on my friend M51 and for some reason there was magical synergy between Nad and DI. The combo sounded almost identical to my master 7 at that time, then i sold my master 7 and bought my self a M51 since i could not justify the small difference between M7 and Nad+Di combo. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  actually the usb implementation in Nad is really good, i have tried various popular converters, namely audiophileo, ifi inlink, concero and the built in Nad USB dusted them in most cases. However the DI2014 is a special exception, i tested it on my friend M51 and for some reason there was magical synergy between Nad and DI. The combo sounded almost identical to my master 7 at that time, then i sold my master 7 and bought my self a M51 since i could not justify the small difference between M7 and Nad+Di combo. 

Good decision, as good as the M7 is, it is huge and if there is ever any technical issue requiring repair, you need to send it to China which is time consuming and expensive. Before getting my M51 I almost bought a Master 7, but didn't for the reasons I just mentioned. I am quite glad I picked up the M51 as it is from the same Master Series as my M3 so they look nice together, and more importantly they synergize together well.

 

[xxxfbsxxx]

 
Good decision, as good as the M7 is, it is huge and if there is ever any technical issue requiring repair, you need to send it to China which is time consuming and expensive. Before getting my M51 I almost bought a Master 7, but didn't for the reasons I just mentioned. I am quite glad I picked up the M51 as it is from the same Master Series as my M3 so they look nice together, and more importantly they synergize together well.

actually not as good as m7 in all situation, without the di, nad is no where near m7 ballpark, even with the di, the combo still a bit behind m7 when it comes to really good recording and complex music, however im not classical fan so should be ok with nad+di as end game solution

 

[vc1187]

I think you misread his post. He meant that even though the m7 is fantastic, it is huge.

 

[alekseev]

the usb implementation in Nad - the best that I heard

 

[alekseev]

used with Beta22.

 

[karmanfamily]

There is one thing that I am missing.... a 2nd RCA S/PDIF input...

 

[Hubird]

  There is one slightly odd, minor annoyance with the M51 that I'm hoping the firmware update fixes. Not always, but very often, when a song starts the re is an extra half a beat inserted to the very beginning of the song. It is hard to described, but picture a Deadmau5 track that starts with a solid kick drum hit, that song would sound like it starts with a very quick double kick hit. This happens very often, but oddly not always. It happens with all kinds of material. Anyway, it is quite a minor thing that even if it didn't get resolved I would still be very happy with the DAC, but if it goes away, I'll be that much happier!

 
I have encountered this issue too.
 
Are you using JRiver by any chance?
 
See http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98787.msg683559#msg683559

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I have encountered this issue too.
 
Are you using JRiver by any chance?
 
See http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98787.msg683559#msg683559

Yes, I do use JRiver. I'll read the link. Thanks for it.