MrSpeakers ETHER Flow and ETHER C Flow -- Inspired by Electrostatic Headphones
Jul 15, 2016 at 8:46 AM Post #166 of 5,796
Just curious but what kind of computer modeling did you guys do to optimize the shape of these true flow pieces, those videos of the difference in air flow look be made with some expensive software! Also are they 3d printed or cast?
 
Jul 15, 2016 at 8:50 AM Post #167 of 5,796
  MrSpeakers, a San Diego-based manufacturer of high performance headphones, introduces ETHER Flow™ and ETHER C Flow™ with patent pending TrueFlow™
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One can apply for a patent for ANY invention and properly make the claim that a patent is pending. @ZGLISZCZ's work is prior art. Assuming a patent has in fact been applied for, it will be published by the USPTO for public comment within the next year or two. At that time @ZGLISZCZ, or any member of the public, can respond and point to the previous work. For the patent to actually ISSUE, it will have to show that the invention is novel with respect to the prior art.
 
Jul 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM Post #170 of 5,796
  Its nice to accept and adapt to new technology but doing so you must give credit to prior work.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements/1620#post_11275121
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements/1875#post_11721901


 I hadn't seen that, I'd stopped following T50 threads by then having moved on to ETHER, but this looks like great work and a good implementation.  Thanks for sharing that and pointing it out!  
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Jul 15, 2016 at 10:11 AM Post #171 of 5,796
  MrSpeakers, a San Diego-based manufacturer of high performance headphones, introduces ETHER Flow™ and ETHER C Flow™ with patent pending TrueFlow™
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Since there's prior art on the exterior ear-side surface for the baffles we'll remove that from the final filling (a provisional is filed), but there were four other inventions in the patent, including internal flow structures, so the patent will still hold up.  C'est la vie!
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Jul 15, 2016 at 10:39 AM Post #172 of 5,796
Hi all,
I have to say I'm shocked and disappointed about what Mr Speakers did, and what he did is in my believe stealing. Whole concept of this so called “TrueFlow” is based on concept I posted more than year ago and I don’t believe he didn’t realise that as all my posts were published on 2 main threads related to classic Fostex headphones that made him start his company and “his” idea is just too similar. Especially the fact that he did not address issues with magnet shape that obscure funnel geometry which can be easily done by profiling magnets. If I had company I would actually order already teardrop-profile shaped magnets and don’t bother with guides at all (nice idea eh? Worth patenting? Actually I wonder why Audeze bother with their guides if they can use already profiled magnets instead…).
 
So let’s maybe start from post I published at BMF thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements/1620#post_11275121 (description of idea, images) and with link to my Sketchfab profile https://sketchfab.com/zgliszcz where you can get all designs for free and later 3d print it if you have Fostex headphones to mod. All designs were published under same license: NonCommercial (You may not use the material for commercial purposes in case if anyone would like to make money from free to grab project) and ShareAlike (If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original) As you can see there are various designs there (some pretty stupid) as I wanted to try few things but at the end I 3d printed only the most “safe” variant: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements/1875#post_11721901 that I was planning to cast in resin but first results weren’t good enough and I never send it to anyone like I promised. If anyone will follow BMF thread starting from mentioned earlier post will get better picture as it was discussed pretty well between guys there. I think whole concept evolved from discussing waveguides and Audeze Fazor idea starting somewhere here http://www.head-fi.org/t/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/10725#post_10995187 but I remember BMF done some waveguide designs earlier and SeEnCreaTive also did his concepts (the idea of wavegude is nothing new). Idea for separate funnel shaped Waveguide was mine but I remember that few guys really opened my knowledge about right geometries to try and posted great resources (I think Armaegis posted some good stuff and its actually worth reading).
 
I saw and tried to address issue with internal reflections and distortions already in first headphones I did in my inside-driver felt dampening: http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/1219637/a/919686/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/sort/display_order/ what’s funny I remember small chat about this with Mr Speakers http://www.head-fi.org/t/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/10710#post_10988917 Later I decided to remove dampening and instead to shape internal metal panels with layer of thick glue by using this natural behave of fluids https://d2gne97vdumgn3.cloudfront.net/api/file/XcIHiMfeQo2ruaT4lmsm that was something like on this image http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/1219636/a/919686/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/sort/display_order (top and bottom thick layer of transparent glue that make shape more acoustic friendly and organic) but was done on whole metal part (and that was in 2014?). Everyone can trace all my posts and check my gallery as it’s not just those 2 posts but if you will look at Images I provided to describe concept you will see basically the same idea.
 
I’m a huge fan of open source and all those “patent pending” gimmicks really make me angry every time I read about it. I actually remember Mr Speaker “zigzag with fancy name” that I consider one of them. Patents right now are huge issue as some companies basically spam patent office with obvious-known ideas just to get that “patent pending” marketing slogan or block others until idea will be granted or not (and who cares if not at that point?). As my idea was supposed to be free I think it would be nice if Mr Speakers feature would be published free to grab also (without fancy name and claim it’s his invention) Also If Mr Speakers is planning to patent “his” concept he can be sure I will sue him. Huge shame Mr Speakers. To be honest at that point I wouldn’t be surprised if your driver used in Ether is not based on that cheap copy of Fostex diaphragm selling on Alibaba… (I wont post link but image is attached)
 
Those kind of attitude was one of the reason I made break from my last headphones project as it seems like everything has to be patented right now…
 
And what Mr Speakers have think actually? I already received private message from guy that remember that concept, it was published on main threads related to T50rp modding and was discussed by many guys that are well known minds here.
 
What a way to start Weekend...
 
---------------
forgot to attach image:
 
 
Quote:
  An interesting happened while Dan Clark of MrSpeakers was developing his upcoming electrostatic ETHER--he came up with an idea to make a better planar magnetic ETHER. While it is thought by many that the ultra-low-mass nature of the traceless electrostatic driver is what gives it its key advantages over its planar magnetic counterpart, Dan and his team came to an additional conclusion, and a resultant theory. Listening to his electrostatic ETHER prototypes, Dan and his team felt that a lower-mass diaphragm couldn't fully account for the electrostatic performance advantages they were hearing--that there had to be other advantages with electrostatic driver assemblies.
 ​
(Above) MrSpeakers ETHER Flow with included DUM Cable
 ​
What they eventually determined was that one very significant advantage that electrostatic drivers have, versus planar magnetic ones, was air flow. Though both planar magnetic and electrostatic motor assemblies use planar diaphragms, electrostatic drivers do not use magnets at all. The only things, then, between an electrostatic's planar diaphragm and air on either side of it are typically very thin, flat, perforated stators.
 
Planar magnetic headphones (as the name suggests) do require magnets on at least one side of the diaphragm (sometimes both sides, depending on the design). The magnets used are typically bar magnets or magnets in trays that in either case are far thicker than an electrostat's stators, and that present a slew of thick- and flat-walled channels and right-angles for air to move past and around. What Dan and his team determined was that the diffraction and reflection of air as it moved around these magnet assemblies was a likely cause of distortion and lost resolution (especially low-level detail), so they set out to fix that. They aimed to make the their planar magnetic motor structure look more like an electrostat's stators to the audio waveform passing through it.
 
To accomplish this, the team at MrSpeakers developed waveguides to sculpt and smooth not just the areas immediately outside the magnets (something that others have also worked on), but also to sculpt and smooth the spaces between them, on both sides of the diaphragm. What MrSpeakers developed they're calling TrueFlow. To help you understand it, here are some illustrations showing magnet structures without TrueFlow, and then (in color) those same components with TrueFlow waveguides--it'll make more sense after you look at these:
 
                                           



 
(Below) This is a cross-section view of a magnet in the tray without TrueFlow (left) and with TrueFlow (right). Notice that TrueFlow waveguides are added on the other side of the tray (again, to minimize right angles):
 

 
Here's an animated simulation showing the movement of air between magnets without TrueFlow installed:
 
(Below) In these animated illustrations, the movement of air through the driver structure is shown, first without the TrueFlow waveguides (top) and then with TrueFlow (bottom):
 

 

 
So, after all this, does it work? While it all seems to make perfect sense to me, I have to admit that I'm not qualified to answer the question. What I do have is a pair of my own ears, as well as a pair of artificial ears on a G.R.A.S. hearing simulator hooked up to an Audio Precision APx555 audio analyzer.
 
Let's start with what I hear with my own ears from the new MrSpeakers ETHER Flow versus the standard ETHER. What I hear with the ETHER Flow is a substantial improvement in low-level detail retrieval versus the standard, non-Flow ETHER. While I cannot say TrueFlow brings the ETHER planar magnetic platform to the level of effortless sonic scanning electron microscopy that the Stax SR-009 is capable of, it does bring the ETHER Flow into the top tier of the non-electrostatic world in this regard--that I can say very comfortably. 
 
Also, the ETHER Flow brings greater dynamism and presence to the bass (versus my first-generation ETHER)--something I expected would be easily visible in the frequency response measurements (which we'll get to in a minute), but wasn't. I asked Dan about this, and he said it was part of a new tuning, and also that perhaps reduced turbulence due to TrueFlow results in less back pressure, which could improve dynamics. The ETHER Flow's bass sounds more impactful, as well as faster, whatever the reasons.
 

 
In terms of measurements, if TrueFlow was supposed to result in lower distortion, then mission accomplished. Look at the THD measurement for the new ETHER Flow (below, click to see larger version).
 

 
Here's the ETHER Flow's frequency response plot:
 

 
NOTE: The measurements reflect diffuse field correction applied via the APx555's input EQ.
 
Audio measurements were made using:
  1. Audio Precision APx555 audio analyzer
  2. G.R.A.S. 45CA Headphone/Hearing-protector Test Fixture
    1. G.R.A.S. KB0072/KB0073 small pinnae; G.R.A.S. RA0045 IEC 60318-4 ear simulators including G.R.A.S. 40AG microphones; G.R.A.S. 26AS 1/4" microphone preamplifier; G.R.A.S. 12AP microphone power module
  3. Rupert Neve Designs RNHP headphone amplifier
  4. Herzan acoustic enclosure (custom)
 

 
Simply put, the ETHER Flow possesses a certain effortlessness with how it goes about its business--it heaps resolution at you, but never punishes you with it. It has slam, but never overcooks it past reference levels. Will I be updating my ETHER to Flow? I'd be silly not to, and am thankful there's expected to be a reasonably priced upgrade path for current ETHER owners like me (more on that below).
 
With the performance gains MrSpeakers has given its planar magnetic ETHER platform withTrueFlow, their upcoming electrostatic ETHER has its work cut out for it. The ETHER Flow brings extraordinary clarity while still being impactful and smooth. I think it's a really neat story that improvements in MrSpeaker's planar magnetic technology came from their work on their upcoming electrostatic headphone.
 
  1. NOTE: The ETHER C Flow (the closed-back version) arrived just before the time of this writing, so I'll give the ETHER C Flow more listening time before I say much more about it. What I will say now is that my first impression is that MrSpeakers' TrueFlow waveguides have made what was already one of my favorite closed-back headphones better.
 
As for availability: ETHER Flow and ETHER C Flow will be demonstrated on Thursday evening July 14, 2016 at Audiovision San Francisco, and on Saturday, July 15, 2016, at the San Francisco Head-Fi meet.  ETHER Flow and ETHER C Flow come with MrSpeakers' hand-made DUM (Distinctly Un-Magical) Cables, and are available for immediate purchase at https://mrspeakers.com/ for $1,799.99.  Shipments will begin in volume within four weeks.
 
Effectively immediately, ETHER and ETHER C Headphones with a DUM Cable are now $1499.99, and the standard cable option is no longer available.  
 
Upgrades to ETHER Flow and ETHER C Flow will be available for existing owners in the near future; upgrade price is to be determined.


 
Jul 15, 2016 at 11:04 AM Post #174 of 5,796


First, thank you for the contributions to the thread and to Head-Fi!  We stopped developing anything on the T50 right after Prime came out, so it's been almost two years since I paid attention to the T50 threads, it didn't seem relevant to our future directions (but obviously some neat work was going on that was relevant).  If you look back when we chatted that was back in 2014, and around when I stopped being active on the T50.
 
If we'd seen your exterior waveguide we would not have wasted time trying to patent something with prior art and I would have definitely acknowledged your work.  Remember, there's zero value to a patent that has prior art, so we just wasted money on one claim that isn't defensible. I'd really rather have had those resources for something else but...  So we'll remove the exterior wave guide from our patent, and I'll check the internals to see if what you did overlaps, I don't think so but we'll review. 
 
So congrats, you beat us to the exterior waveguide and it was a great idea and its awesome you shared it.  I certainly wouldn't want you left with hard feelings, and while we weren't aware of your work, that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge it in some way, so please PM me and let's chat about how we might articulate your contribution to the community, because that's a great one.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Jul 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM Post #175 of 5,796
Hi, Mr Speakers,
I'm sorry if I was malicious in my previous post but this thread shooted me today and made me angry. I didnt read it yet beside beginning introduction and I realised you guys discussing it already after posting my comment. Probably I wouldnt be so mad if I knew that. For now I'm leaving it and will read it and reply later to avoid any more hot comments. Have a nice Weekend to all of you.
 
Jul 15, 2016 at 11:38 AM Post #176 of 5,796
  Hi, Mr Speakers,
I'm sorry if I was malicious in my previous post but this thread shooted me today and made me angry. I didnt read it yet beside beginning introduction and I realised you guys discussing it already after posting my comment. Probably I wouldnt be so mad if I knew that. For now I'm leaving it and will read it and reply later to avoid any more hot comments. Have a nice Weekend to all of you.


No apology needed, I didn't take it as malicious at all, you had every right to be upset and I thank you for letting us know..  We do our best but mistakes happen or we miss something, so when they do we own it and fix it.  
 
Should you wish, PM me any time, I'm happy to discuss acknowledging your work in some way, if you wish we can discuss a link from our site to your posts, etc.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Jul 15, 2016 at 2:09 PM Post #178 of 5,796
mrspeakers Just wondering when these will arrive in the UK and what the pricing will be? Really looking forward to trying these out! Looks like just what I want :D
 
Jul 15, 2016 at 2:51 PM Post #180 of 5,796
@mrspeakers Just wondering when these will arrive in the UK and what the pricing will be? Really looking forward to trying these out! Looks like just what I want
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Our first round of shipments will be direct only and samples to distributors.  We don't have the full production schedule worked out yet, but samples should ship to the UK this month.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com

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