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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!
Oct 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM Post #10,728 of 11,345
zgliszcz said:
  http://www.ebay.ie/usr/martyrokk?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 
 
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/161460115787
 
seller name is martyrokk just in case links wont work
Click to expand...

Super price, but unfortunately with postage and import duties to EU it comes out at $170 
frown.gif
 
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 1:08 PM Post #10,731 of 11,345
Oct 25, 2014 at 1:33 PM Post #10,732 of 11,345
$159 to here, 125€... a bit much, but I think that's still cheaper than anywhere else I found with quick search. I'm soooo tired of many cool things being available for much cheaper in US. At least we have Germany and Switzerland producing cool stuff.
tongue.gif

 
I call dollars the cheap money... and those taco and burger meals that cost like no dollars there..!
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 3:03 PM Post #10,734 of 11,345
zgliszcz said:
   
 I need to ask BMF if he tried dampening inside driver. And does the fiber white dampening on driver is currently same for t20/40/50rp?
 
they changed it while ago but I'm not sure if its the same for all of them right now.
 
 
Click to expand...

 
ZGISZCZ,
 
Yes, I tried damping the drivers after making the "Radical Russian Rouletter" (R3) mods - Links to Google Docs videos I made are listed in FIMM. This was, however, simply an experiment to rule-in or rule-out any possible benefits from doing so. In other words, the whole point to the R3 magnet frames mods was to open them up, i.e. make the frames' holes Larger, in order to determine if doing so would improve efficiency and improve the SQ. Follow-up damping of the drivers seemed counterproductive but I had to try, anyway.
 
Neither approach (enlarging the magnet frame holes and damping the magnet frames) provided any discernable benefits. In fact, making the magnet frame holes Larger Decreased the efficiency. I modified both sides of the magnet frames on another set and efficiency further diminished. It was a lot of work resulting in 2 sets of T50RP marred and 1 driver FUBAR'd when my screwdriver "slipped" under pressure and the magnets pulled the screwdriver tip right through the diaphragm!
 
This is not to say, however, that the Russian headphone modder, who first posted this idea, did not find modifying the magnet frames and damping them with leather, beneficial; just that I did not. The same goes for anyone else who might try it and find a damping config that pays off where I failed.
 
RE: the white damping material on the back of T50/40/20 -- There have been and may continue to be variations in its composition, porosity, and air permeability. I included pictures of Stock "old" and "new" driver damping materaial in FIMM. I also included pictures of the differences between the 3 sibling headphones and stock measurements of each.
 
Cheers to all,
 
BMF
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 5:02 PM Post #10,735 of 11,345
Hi Keith, 
I saw the videos but for some reason I didn't realise it was yours:) I though you just put links to them... Probably it was late or my brain get a nap:wink: well in that case I'm not that eager any more to mess inside drivers. But I will try just last time to dampen slightly one side (the one oppose to ear side) for next mods I will definitely try to stay with original white damping. I remember your comparison of stock t20/40/50rp's in FIMM I was just not sure if fostex didn't started to use same damping to all of them because they changed t50rp damping. I already asked about this but I'm still not sure: Is the colour dot at the back of driver always the same for each model or its random (whatever marker is available at quality control) I was thinking that the colour is for recognising dampening type but I'm not sure any more. About R3 mod, I was having feeling that cutting metal will mess with magnetic fields because those metal pieces act like some kind of extend to magnets, but its just speculations. I was also wonder if making something like Audeze's fazor wouldn't improve something. Well I wish I had some more knowledge... 
I also would like to ask about dampening material from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/21765#post_9538055 is there anything like this available to buy online, or did you figured out any replacement?
 
I'm wonder if you wouldn't like to try natural bee wax as I really liked it in my setup, but never did any measurements. I'm curious what would be your impression about it.
 
I need to check more orthodynamic roundup and thunderpants threads, but I'm still reading this one
 
Thanks for your help
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 5:31 PM Post #10,736 of 11,345
zgliszcz said:
  Hi Keith, 
I saw the videos but for some reason I didn't realise it was yours:) I though you just put links to them... Probably it was late or my brain get a nap:wink: well in that case I'm not that eager any more to mess inside drivers. But I will try just last time to dampen slightly one side (the one oppose to ear side) for next mods I will definitely try to stay with original white damping. I remember your comparison of stock t20/40/50rp's in FIMM I was just not sure if fostex didn't started to use same damping to all of them because they changed t50rp damping. I already asked about this but I'm still not sure: Is the colour dot at the back of driver always the same for each model or its random (whatever marker is available at quality control) I was thinking that the colour is for recognising dampening type but I'm not sure any more. About R3 mod, I was having feeling that cutting metal will mess with magnetic fields because those metal pieces act like some kind of extend to magnets, but its just speculations. I was also wonder if making something like Audeze's fazor wouldn't improve something. Well I wish I had some more knowledge... 
I also would like to ask about dampening material from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/21765#post_9538055 is there anything like this available to buy online, or did you figured out any replacement?
 
I'm wonder if you wouldn't like to try natural bee wax as I really liked it in my setup, but never did any measurements. I'm curious what would be your impression about it.
 
I need to check more orthodynamic roundup and thunderpants threads, but I'm still reading this one
 
Thanks for your help
Click to expand...

 
 
zgliszcz said:
  Hi Keith, 
I saw the videos but for some reason I didn't realise it was yours:) I though you just put links to them... Probably it was late or my brain get a nap:wink: well in that case I'm not that eager any more to mess inside drivers. But I will try just last time to dampen slightly one side (the one oppose to ear side) for next mods I will definitely try to stay with original white damping. I remember your comparison of stock t20/40/50rp's in FIMM I was just not sure if fostex didn't started to use same damping to all of them because they changed t50rp damping. I already asked about this but I'm still not sure: Is the colour dot at the back of driver always the same for each model or its random (whatever marker is available at quality control) I was thinking that the colour is for recognising dampening type but I'm not sure any more. About R3 mod, I was having feeling that cutting metal will mess with magnetic fields because those metal pieces act like some kind of extend to magnets, but its just speculations. I was also wonder if making something like Audeze's fazor wouldn't improve something. Well I wish I had some more knowledge... 
I also would like to ask about dampening material from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/21765#post_9538055 is there anything like this available to buy online, or did you figured out any replacement?
 
I'm wonder if you wouldn't like to try natural bee wax as I really liked it in my setup, but never did any measurements. I'm curious what would be your impression about it.
 
I need to check more orthodynamic roundup and thunderpants threads, but I'm still reading this one
 
Thanks for your help
Click to expand...

 
Grzegorz,
 
The blue or red dots on the drivers likely indicate something to do with Quality Control. I have no idea what, exactly, though.
 
Cutting the metal magnet frames undoubtedly impact the magnets flux and strength but I don't know if the resulting reduction in efficiency is due to less compression or less flux strength...or both!
 
I contacted Audeze to see if they would sell me a set of Fazors for my LCD2 v1...no love! I was told the reason was that there was not enough interest. O.K. but I'm interested and they most definitely have have plenty since all models now come with Fazors. I was told if I want Fazors, then buy a current production LCD2...OK.  
 
I think with the needed CAD program, a modder could design a similar element and have it 3D printed from online sources. I, too, thought about 3D printing wave guides for T50RP.
 
I searched high and low for the "yellow biscuits" material found commonly in Fostex and Yamaha orthos to no avail. I ended up buying STAX Glass Wool replacement material for Lambdas from a guy in Germany for $65.00...Gulp! A good friend in Canada sent me some Kraft material he found that looks similar...he can post the exact material and source If he so chooses.
 
RE: Bees Wax -- Where and how do you implement it and what do you think it provides??
 
Best,
 
BMF
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 10:08 PM Post #10,737 of 11,345
bluemonkeyflyer said:
   
 
 
Grzegorz,
 
The blue or red dots on the drivers likely indicate something to do with Quality Control. I have no idea what, exactly, though.
 
Cutting the metal magnet frames undoubtedly impact the magnets flux and strength but I don't know if the resulting reduction in efficiency is due to less compression or less flux strength...or both!
 
I contacted Audeze to see if they would sell me a set of Fazors for my LCD2 v1...no love! I was told the reason was that there was not enough interest. O.K. but I'm interested and they most definitely have have plenty since all models now come with Fazors. I was told if I want Fazors, then buy a current production LCD2...OK.  
 
I think with the needed CAD program, a modder could design a similar element and have it 3D printed from online sources. I, too, thought about 3D printing wave guides for T50RP.
 
I searched high and low for the "yellow biscuits" material found commonly in Fostex and Yamaha orthos to no avail. I ended up buying STAX Glass Wool replacement material for Lambdas from a guy in Germany for $65.00...Gulp! A good friend in Canada sent me some Kraft material he found that looks similar...he can post the exact material and source If he so chooses.
 
RE: Bees Wax -- Where and how do you implement it and what do you think it provides??
 
Best,
 
BMF
Click to expand...

The Audio Technica ES10 has that material in them. AT is pretty good about selling replacement parts so I would think that would be your best bet for that material.

 
Oct 27, 2014 at 7:42 AM Post #10,738 of 11,345
bluemonkeyflyer said:
   
 
 
Grzegorz,
 
The blue or red dots on the drivers likely indicate something to do with Quality Control. I have no idea what, exactly, though.
 
Cutting the metal magnet frames undoubtedly impact the magnets flux and strength but I don't know if the resulting reduction in efficiency is due to less compression or less flux strength...or both!
 
I contacted Audeze to see if they would sell me a set of Fazors for my LCD2 v1...no love! I was told the reason was that there was not enough interest. O.K. but I'm interested and they most definitely have have plenty since all models now come with Fazors. I was told if I want Fazors, then buy a current production LCD2...OK.  
 
I think with the needed CAD program, a modder could design a similar element and have it 3D printed from online sources. I, too, thought about 3D printing wave guides for T50RP.
 
I searched high and low for the "yellow biscuits" material found commonly in Fostex and Yamaha orthos to no avail. I ended up buying STAX Glass Wool replacement material for Lambdas from a guy in Germany for $65.00...Gulp! A good friend in Canada sent me some Kraft material he found that looks similar...he can post the exact material and source If he so chooses.
 
RE: Bees Wax -- Where and how do you implement it and what do you think it provides??
 
Best,
 
BMF
Click to expand...

Hi Keith,
I was also thinking about sticking more magnets on the one that are already there (on the other sides of metal elements, but I dont know what it will do to the sound its just idea. 
Fazors remind me shape of plane wings, and it work bit similar. I'm sure it can have simple substitute http://www.tasmaproducts.co.uk/catalogue/browse.php?product_Category_ID=8 its balsa but you can try something harder and sand it to right shape. As I already mentioned I would like to make 3d printed enclosure and baffle, but for this I need to learn some CAD software as I know only ZBrush and its not the best software to design in specified sizes etc. When I will learn it I can make for you Fazor model for print, it seems pretty easy to do, I can even try to do that in ZBrush but I need to check sizes and how ZBrush export to 3d as I newer did that. But I believe you can make Fazor-like element from pieces of wood similar to one from my link and I wouldn't even bother making frame just glue them to the cover (stator with magnets) http://www.audeze.com/sites/default/files/Xploded_Rendered_white_v4.jpg it will be cheaper than printing it
 
I think bee wax work similar to plasticine but it might absorb some frequencies, I applied it at the beginning so I dont really remember what exactly changed, but later I add it on the baffle and it cleared sound nicely, I didnt really need much absorbers after that. I was having feeling that adding more felt etc overdamp enclosure, Its pretty cheap I order mine from Czech Republic but there was lots of it in US ebay or China. Something like that: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1pcs-Filtered-Organic-Nature-Pure-Beeswax-Yellow-Crafted-Bees-wax-Cosmetic-Grade-/390952691625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&var=&hash=item5b0698a7a9 but Im sure you can get it cheaper. Just try to get something natural without any ads. You can melt it in small pot (and clean pot with kitchen towel paper when its still warm) just dont overheat it, when it will melt you can spill it on enclosure or baffle. When it get solid it become smaller so you might press it to the enclosure to fill any gaps on edges, or you can warm it with hands and apply it just like plasticine. Its really nice and gets hard in normal temperature. It makes enclosure more sturdy, I was thinking about cutting in it some sort of wave diffuser with chisel but it was too sticky, probably it will be different if you will put it to the fridge for a while and then cut it with V shaped chisel. you can also try to find something that will work as a form and then spit it inside and cool it.
 
Cheers,
 
Oct 27, 2014 at 1:37 PM Post #10,739 of 11,345
zgliszcz said:
  Hi Keith,
I was also thinking about sticking more magnets on the one that are already there (on the other sides of metal elements, but I dont know what it will do to the sound its just idea. 
Fazors remind me shape of plane wings, and it work bit similar. I'm sure it can have simple substitute http://www.tasmaproducts.co.uk/catalogue/browse.php?product_Category_ID=8 its balsa but you can try something harder and sand it to right shape. As I already mentioned I would like to make 3d printed enclosure and baffle, but for this I need to learn some CAD software as I know only ZBrush and its not the best software to design in specified sizes etc. When I will learn it I can make for you Fazor model for print, it seems pretty easy to do, I can even try to do that in ZBrush but I need to check sizes and how ZBrush export to 3d as I newer did that. But I believe you can make Fazor-like element from pieces of wood similar to one from my link and I wouldn't even bother making frame just glue them to the cover (stator with magnets) http://www.audeze.com/sites/default/files/Xploded_Rendered_white_v4.jpg it will be cheaper than printing it
 
I think bee wax work similar to plasticine but it might absorb some frequencies, I applied it at the beginning so I dont really remember what exactly changed, but later I add it on the baffle and it cleared sound nicely, I didnt really need much absorbers after that. I was having feeling that adding more felt etc overdamp enclosure, Its pretty cheap I order mine from Czech Republic but there was lots of it in US ebay or China. Something like that: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1pcs-Filtered-Organic-Nature-Pure-Beeswax-Yellow-Crafted-Bees-wax-Cosmetic-Grade-/390952691625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&var=&hash=item5b0698a7a9 but Im sure you can get it cheaper. Just try to get something natural without any ads. You can melt it in small pot (and clean pot with kitchen towel paper when its still warm) just dont overheat it, when it will melt you can spill it on enclosure or baffle. When it get solid it become smaller so you might press it to the enclosure to fill any gaps on edges, or you can warm it with hands and apply it just like plasticine. Its really nice and gets hard in normal temperature. It makes enclosure more sturdy, I was thinking about cutting in it some sort of wave diffuser with chisel but it was too sticky, probably it will be different if you will put it to the fridge for a while and then cut it with V shaped chisel. you can also try to find something that will work as a form and then spit it inside and cool it.
 
Cheers,
Click to expand...

 
Brilliant idea; well worth a trip to the hobby shop, or order on-line. I appreciate the links and bees wax tips.
 
If you put together a CAD model, I'm interested. Thanks for the offer to share. I'll do the same if I succeed.
 
Oct 27, 2014 at 7:36 PM Post #10,740 of 11,345
zgliszcz said:
  Hi Keith,
I was also thinking about sticking more magnets on the one that are already there (on the other sides of metal elements, but I dont know what it will do to the sound its just idea. 
Fazors remind me shape of plane wings, and it work bit similar. I'm sure it can have simple substitute http://www.tasmaproducts.co.uk/catalogue/browse.php?product_Category_ID=8 its balsa but you can try something harder and sand it to right shape. As I already mentioned I would like to make 3d printed enclosure and baffle, but for this I need to learn some CAD software as I know only ZBrush and its not the best software to design in specified sizes etc. When I will learn it I can make for you Fazor model for print, it seems pretty easy to do, I can even try to do that in ZBrush but I need to check sizes and how ZBrush export to 3d as I newer did that. But I believe you can make Fazor-like element from pieces of wood similar to one from my link and I wouldn't even bother making frame just glue them to the cover (stator with magnets) http://www.audeze.com/sites/default/files/Xploded_Rendered_white_v4.jpg it will be cheaper than printing it
 
I think bee wax work similar to plasticine but it might absorb some frequencies, I applied it at the beginning so I dont really remember what exactly changed, but later I add it on the baffle and it cleared sound nicely, I didnt really need much absorbers after that. I was having feeling that adding more felt etc overdamp enclosure, Its pretty cheap I order mine from Czech Republic but there was lots of it in US ebay or China. Something like that: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1pcs-Filtered-Organic-Nature-Pure-Beeswax-Yellow-Crafted-Bees-wax-Cosmetic-Grade-/390952691625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&var=&hash=item5b0698a7a9 but Im sure you can get it cheaper. Just try to get something natural without any ads. You can melt it in small pot (and clean pot with kitchen towel paper when its still warm) just dont overheat it, when it will melt you can spill it on enclosure or baffle. When it get solid it become smaller so you might press it to the enclosure to fill any gaps on edges, or you can warm it with hands and apply it just like plasticine. Its really nice and gets hard in normal temperature. It makes enclosure more sturdy, I was thinking about cutting in it some sort of wave diffuser with chisel but it was too sticky, probably it will be different if you will put it to the fridge for a while and then cut it with V shaped chisel. you can also try to find something that will work as a form and then spit it inside and cool it.
 
Cheers,
Click to expand...

 
Looks like the linked balsa wood leading edge comes in no smaller than 6 mm x 6 mm. The T50RP partitions along their widest dimension is 3.5 mm x 35 mm length. I have not been able to find balsa leading edge material that may work for this application. I think we will have to try and CAD model wave guides, designed to "fit."
 
For T50RP, I'm thinking we need CAD-designed "wave guides" (Not Fazors) ~ 3.5 mm width x 3.5 mm tapered height x 35 mm length for a total of 4 lengths on the ear side and 4 lengths on the rear side of the drivers.
 
Thoughts?
 
~BMF
 
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