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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 715

post #10711 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGLISZCZ View Post
 I will post long story about my modding but not today, today I got pictures and not enough time.

Looking forward to the reasoning and process behind the decisions related to the sound. You crack open the driver like it's standard procedure, kudos. Any thought of gasketing the interface between the diaphragm and the housing?

post #10712 of 10723

Hi guys, and thanks for your comments. Just as before my post will be chaotic. Sorry for that:)

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cripple1 View Post
 

Well this certainly does look interesting. What're the pads and how do they sound with wood enclosures?

 

Pads are made by me, they make really nice sealing even without stretched strand (around the edge), after final mod I will stretch strand more but not now as it will close access to inside (probably I will also use some strong double sided tape just in case to seal it even more), I know it will further improve bass response. I attached quick messy sketch from the top view just to visualise sealing ( I will make better pictures of all details when I'll finish them.

Ear is inside comfy chamber and have pad even behind it. Baffle is shaped so there is space for that. Driver are angled but parallel to back wall of the enclosure (actually Im not sure any more if its better that way). Till now they sounded in thousand different ways;) I was jumping through this massive thread when making them but I focused on info from http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements . As my work is bit different to original enclosure and pads, mods did work in different way for me. Sound was many times ultra extended from low to high but there was no mids just huge U shape. SS was also great somehow but there was no life in them, they were stiff like gym exercise in a too-close-fitting suit (guys sorry for my English, I know...). Now I think that I just overdamped them in that time but it might be the pads. To restore mids and liquid honey I decided to remove white dampening material from back of the driver (from t20rp) and do some mods with all sorts of felts etc. Some of those mods you can see on pictures. They become more punchy, sassy and mids came back alive. But there was this legendary low-mid hump that made Kate Bush sound like if she catch a cold... although Cinematic Orchestra, Flanger and Burnt Friedman sounded thrilling. One day I did some small adjustments to driver dampening and after that I was there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUh5BWfrF6U

Detail madness from end to end... I didnt believe cd quality got so many informations inside. I think only Dead Can Dance Spiritchaser sounded similar on my k701. Those bastards become so revealing that I started to hear all sorts of distortions in many albums and I become obsessed that one of the driver cause those distortions. So I opened my perfect config and rip of all driver dampening, beewax, and open again both drivers (not the first time and not the last). I changed configurations (those failed improvements...) and check again, distortions was still there, so I was opening the drivers few more times and later I rip of this fancy crate from ear side... Later when I accidentally destroyed one of the diaphragm and get back to my k701 I realised that distortions were in my testing tracks, just not that obvious on k701. So yes they were sound in many different ways, I think they were easy to overdamp even with lots of space inside comparing to original enclosure.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post
 

That is mind-boggling how much modding went into that. Is that a cork-like material inserted between the magnets? You appear to be blocking some of the holes in the driver itself. And I find it curious that for all the crazy damping in the cup and surrounding the driver, there doesn't appear to be any on the ear-side under the pad?

 

On pictures you can see few different variants, I didn't put inside all of this at the same time. Its a shame that I didn't really made more pictures as there was lot more. that "cork like material" is actually some sort of hardened felt but not like those used in Rastapants its like this: http://www.woodiesdiy.com/Product/woodies-floor-guard-114-x-152mm-sheet/18601/1.3.2.7#.VEgmZ_mG8bg

cuttet to tiny squares and stripes. Actually this idea comes from Radical Russian Mod (BMF got links) and also from one of the post (I will try to find it later) where some of you mentioned that t50rp got some reflections even after taking of enclosure and listening it only with baffle and pads. I though it might be good idea to mess around inside driver. Well using felt inside was silly as small fibres were touching moving diaphragm, but I will try other materials.

 

I was thinking about dampening ear side, I can hear reflections and that was one of the reason I stop care about ear side look as I was planning to cover it with some acoustic foam or something. Also at the end I didnt really dampen them that much inside as beewax and sturdy enclosure did the work nicely. Mostly I was messing with driver dampening. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank2908 View Post
 

pls pls show me how to make custom earpads. I have already cut out memory foam and lambskin to shape but gave up on the sewing as it is hard to align leather when it is stretchable.

thanks

I will make tutorial showing how I did it but not that soon as its time consuming and I want to do that when I will start doing next headphones. First I want to fix and finish those. What you should keep in mind is watching all the time if one of the piece is not moving slightly to avoid mismatch ( I know its worthless tip ) try to draw lines on the other side of lambskin pieces (side that wont be seen). Control those lines and fix any mismatch just after they appear. You might try to stick pieces together with tape to avoid sliding. I will need to do proper tutorial to help you more. Also dont watch movies when you sewing :) and be patient.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thune View Post
 

Looking forward to the reasoning and process behind the decisions related to the sound. You crack open the driver like it's standard procedure, kudos. Any thought of gasketing the interface between the diaphragm and the housing?

 

I open them for many times but now they look like they look... many screws doesn't hold them any more, but bee wax is the cure for any issue;) driver enclosure is made from worst plastic ever... its really brittle. I'm thinking about making 2 more wooden sets (this time smaller) but also 3d printed enclosure and driver body. Ear side plastic part of driver enclosure will be integrated with baffle as one part (I will transplant magnets with metal parts) I'm thinking about posting my projects here and ask for feedback as I dont really know much about acoustic and physics. We can all benefit as I will share for free my .OBJ file with anyone interested in printing it. But that in a future if anyone will be interested. I will also make baffle variant without integrated driver for everyone that don't want to mess with it. Well that's a lot of promises but I think it will happen. Its just that I dont have much free time so it will take a while.

 

Thanks to everyone, and sorry tor chaos

post #10713 of 10723

Outstanding work and documentation, ZGLISZCZ! Thank you!

 

For stripped threads, how are you using bee's wax?

 

Stock cup threads that become stripped can be repaired with super glue. The "how to" is shown in Post #1 of FIMM.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGLISZCZ View Post
 

 

Pads are made by me, they make really nice sealing even without stretched strand (around the edge), after final mod I will stretch strand more but not now as it will close access to inside (probably I will also use some strong double sided tape just in case to seal it even more), I know it will further improve bass response. I attached quick messy sketch from the top view just to visualise sealing ( I will make better pictures of all details when I'll finish them.

Ear is inside comfy chamber and have pad even behind it. Baffle is shaped so there is space for that. Driver are angled but parallel to back wall of the enclosure (actually Im not sure any more if its better that way). Till now they sounded in thousand different ways;) I was jumping through this massive thread when making them but I focused on info from http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements . As my work is bit different to original enclosure and pads, mods did work in different way for me. Sound was many times ultra extended from low to high but there was no mids just huge U shape. SS was also great somehow but there was no life in them, they were stiff like gym exercise in a too-close-fitting suit (guys sorry for my English, I know...). Now I think that I just overdamped them in that time but it might be the pads. To restore mids and liquid honey I decided to remove white dampening material from back of the driver (from t20rp) and do some mods with all sorts of felts etc. Some of those mods you can see on pictures. They become more punchy, sassy and mids came back alive. But there was this legendary low-mid hump that made Kate Bush sound like if she catch a cold... although Cinematic Orchestra, Flanger and Burnt Friedman sounded thrilling. One day I did some small adjustments to driver dampening and after that I was there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUh5BWfrF6U

Detail madness from end to end... I didnt believe cd quality got so many informations inside. I think only Dead Can Dance Spiritchaser sounded similar on my k701. Those bastards become so revealing that I started to hear all sorts of distortions in many albums and I become obsessed that one of the driver cause those distortions. So I opened my perfect config and rip of all driver dampening, beewax, and open again both drivers (not the first time and not the last). I changed configurations (those failed improvements...) and check again, distortions was still there, so I was opening the drivers few more times and later I rip of this fancy crate from ear side... Later when I accidentally destroyed one of the diaphragm and get back to my k701 I realised that distortions were in my testing tracks, just not that obvious on k701. So yes they were sound in many different ways, I think they were easy to overdamp even with lots of space inside comparing to original enclosure.

 

 

On pictures you can see few different variants, I didn't put inside all of this at the same time. Its a shame that I didn't really made more pictures as there was lot more. that "cork like material" is actually some sort of hardened felt but not like those used in Rastapants its like this: http://www.woodiesdiy.com/Product/woodies-floor-guard-114-x-152mm-sheet/18601/1.3.2.7#.VEgmZ_mG8bg

cuttet to tiny squares and stripes. Actually this idea comes from Radical Russian Mod (BMF got links) and also from one of the post (I will try to find it later) where some of you mentioned that t50rp got some reflections even after taking of enclosure and listening it only with baffle and pads. I though it might be good idea to mess around inside driver. Well using felt inside was silly as small fibres were touching moving diaphragm, but I will try other materials.

 

I was thinking about dampening ear side, I can hear reflections and that was one of the reason I stop care about ear side look as I was planning to cover it with some acoustic foam or something. Also at the end I didnt really dampen them that much inside as beewax and sturdy enclosure did the work nicely. Mostly I was messing with driver dampening. 

 

I will make tutorial showing how I did it but not that soon as its time consuming and I want to do that when I will start doing next headphones. First I want to fix and finish those. What you should keep in mind is watching all the time if one of the piece is not moving slightly to avoid mismatch ( I know its worthless tip ) try to draw lines on the other side of lambskin pieces (side that wont be seen). Control those lines and fix any mismatch just after they appear. You might try to stick pieces together with tape to avoid sliding. I will need to do proper tutorial to help you more. Also dont watch movies when you sewing :) and be patient.

 

 

I open them for many times but now they look like they look... many screws doesn't hold them any more, but bee wax is the cure for any issue;) driver enclosure is made from worst plastic ever... its really brittle. I'm thinking about making 2 more wooden sets (this time smaller) but also 3d printed enclosure and driver body. Ear side plastic part of driver enclosure will be integrated with baffle as one part (I will transplant magnets with metal parts) I'm thinking about posting my projects here and ask for feedback as I dont really know much about acoustic and physics. We can all benefit as I will share for free my .OBJ file with anyone interested in printing it. But that in a future if anyone will be interested. I will also make baffle variant without integrated driver for everyone that don't want to mess with it. Well that's a lot of promises but I think it will happen. Its just that I dont have much free time so it will take a while.

 

Thanks to everyone, and sorry tor chaos

post #10714 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post
 

I have access to a router at a community center and was going to find out if it can handle wood.  If it is, I am going to try to make some custom wood cups, although I will be keeping them closed/semi-closed to keep the bass response.  It will probably be a while til I can try it out, but will definitely post here if I try.  I am still waiting for prices to hopefully drop back down to $75 again to get another pair.  Wonder if I can get just the driver and baffle from Fostex.

 

I'm with you. There was some mentions that drivers by itself were available as replacement parts but I couldn't find them anywhere. Did you made them? I'm still reading thread. I'm on your post right now.

post #10715 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post
 

 

If memory serves, the price for One driver is $69.00....Yep, just checked. I got these prices from the USA Fostex Distributor last year. The prices have not gone up!  LOL

 

Dust Cover (Ref. No. 10 on Exploded Diagram)

 Replacement Part Number:  1416902500

Sugg Retail: 4.95$ each side

No stock - ETA 3 to 4 weeks approx

 

Driver Gasket (Ref. No. 13 on Exploded Diagram)

Replacement Part Number:  1416902800

Sugg Retail: 7.49$ ea

No stock - ETA 3 to 4 weeks approx

 

Headphone Capsule (Driver Assembly; No. 15 on Exploded Diagram)  This is the driver.

Replacement Part Number:  1471300500

Sugg Retail: 69.95$ ea

No stock - ETA 3 to 4 weeks approx

 

Tiny Screws (Ref. No 23 on Exploded Diagram)

Replacement Part Number: 0514002200

Sugg Retail: 1.50$ each one!

 

 

 

And heres the answer... I didnt noticed next post. So drivers cost more than headphones? I also read that Mr. Speakers made some kind of deal with fostex to get modded drivers? Mr. Speakers are yout there? Is it really true that fostex suply you with modified drivers? Hope you dont mind that I'm asking its just really interesting.

post #10716 of 10723

 "Alpha Prime was about tuning and improving the driver, and changing the voicing to reflect the improvements. And no, we won't say what we've done differently, but it took a LOT of work to do it. And we truly hope you'll enjoy it."

Not sure if they do inhouse or asked Fostex to do it. $999.99

Alpha dog $599.99

Mad dog $449.99

 

Printed shells cost only 100 more , but re-tuned drivers 400 more :eek: 

 

My guess would be Alpha dog uses - T50RP driver and

Alpha prime - TH500RP


Edited by MuZo2 - Today at 5:04 am
post #10717 of 10723
That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm really interested in hearing a pair of TH500RPs when they come out. I have a bonus through my job coming up...
post #10718 of 10723

They are already out.

post #10719 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

 "Alpha Prime was about tuning and improving the driver, and changing the voicing to reflect the improvements. And no, we won't say what we've done differently, but it took a LOT of work to do it. And we truly hope you'll enjoy it."

Not sure if they do inhouse or asked Fostex to do it. $999.99

Alpha dog $599.99

Mad dog $449.99

 

Printed shells cost only 100 more , but re-tuned drivers 400 more :eek: 

 

My guess would be Alpha dog uses - T50RP driver and

Alpha prime - TH500RP


Hi MuZo2,

 

Thanks for reply, thats interesting. I remember watching some video from fostex when they were showing driver from TH500RP (I love simple raw designs like that) and it did look exactly the same as the one from tXXrp family, but heres info from their website:

...

  • Employs the uniquely developed RP (Regular Phase) diaphragm which consists of etched copper foil on the surface with high heat resistant polyimide film as the base material. The distinctive characteristic of planar diaphragm is further evolved by newly tuning the entire driver unit
  • The high specific gravity resin baffle plate deliveres a high resolution sound with rich mid range and good quality lows and a reduction in unwanted resonance

...

 

so its improved driver indeed... anyone has tried them? I know that Mr. Speakers auditioned them on some hi-fi show and he was not impressed much. Wish to have chance to get the drivers from TH500RP...

post #10720 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGLISZCZ View Post
so its improved driver indeed... anyone has tried them?

Check the thread dedicated to it.

post #10721 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGLISZCZ View Post
 

 

And heres the answer... I didnt noticed next post. So drivers cost more than headphones? I also read that Mr. Speakers made some kind of deal with fostex to get modded drivers? Mr. Speakers are yout there? Is it really true that fostex suply you with modified drivers? Hope you dont mind that I'm asking its just really interesting.


No, we modify the drivers.  We buy stock T50 headphones.  And no, Prime is definitely not the same as the TH500, that's Fostex's own thing.

post #10722 of 10723

Hi Guys,

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

Check the thread dedicated to it.

I will do that. Last time I did there was not much info. Im still focused on reading this thread... Im on page 638:) almost there...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post
 


No, we modify the drivers.  We buy stock T50 headphones.  And no, Prime is definitely not the same as the TH500, that's Fostex's own thing.

Is there any chance you can give us info if inside driver dampening can give positive effect? I was trying this but material I used was huge mistake:) I know its probably related to some of your secrets but my curiosity is stronger;) are there some internal bad resonances inside driver to fight with? and is there any reason to buying t50rp instead of t20rp if you change the enclosure and only difference that are left seemt to be paper dampening behind the driver?


Edited by ZGLISZCZ - Today at 8:34 am
post #10723 of 10723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGLISZCZ View Post
 

I will do that. Last time I did there was not much info. Im still focused on reading this thread... Im on page 638:) almost there...

 

Is there any chance you can give us info if inside driver dampening can give positive effect? I was trying this but material I used was huge mistake:) I know its probably related to some of your secrets but my curiosity is stronger;) are there some internal bad resonances inside driver to fight with? and is there any reason to buying t50rp instead of t20rp if you change the enclosure and only difference that are left seemt to be paper dampening behind the driver?


In-driver damping can do useful and interesting things, and it's actually not what we do.  The challenge with it is that there's very little clearance between the tray and the driver, and if the material you line the tray with touches the driver weird stuff, from buzzing to a total loss of bass, can happen.

 

The T50/40/20 drivers are identical.  We didn't use the T40 when we started because the enclosure didn't do what we needed, same for the 20.  However, by the time we didn't need an enclosure (Alpha) the price for the 20 and 40 went up to the point it was just easier to purchase one product.  Chest la querre.


Edited by mrspeakers - Today at 2:53 pm
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