MrSpeakers Alpha PRIME: Impressions and Discussion Thread
Nov 24, 2015 at 9:25 PM Post #1,831 of 2,891
I also bought a used pair of HD-800 and I have to say they while they are the most detailed headphone Ive ever listened to, I prefer the warmer signature of the Primes. Even with the Anax mod and moon audio black dragon balanced to Geek XFI they sound on the thin side compared to the Primes. I just love the oomph of the Primes. I guess love my Bass. lol  Sorry Sennheiser but I will keep my Primes.  If anybody wants to buy a pair of great condition HD-800s with anax mod please PM me.  
 
Nov 27, 2015 at 4:48 PM Post #1,832 of 2,891
So i just took the plunge and got a pair of used primes for about 650. Think im calling it here for now as my endgame
 
Nov 30, 2015 at 10:15 AM Post #1,834 of 2,891
  I also bought a used pair of HD-800 and I have to say they while they are the most detailed headphone Ive ever listened to, I prefer the warmer signature of the Primes. Even with the Anax mod and moon audio black dragon balanced to Geek XFI they sound on the thin side compared to the Primes. I just love the oomph of the Primes. I guess love my Bass. lol  Sorry Sennheiser but I will keep my Primes.  If anybody wants to buy a pair of great condition HD-800s with anax mod please PM me.  

+1 I find the Alpha Primes having the slam, more engaging, and more musical than HD800 (Especially EDM's).  Hence I'm going to sell my HD800 and keep the primes.  Another reason is I can't really use HD800 due to open back and sound leakage that bothers my wife every time.  However, HD800's do sound like you're listening to speakers which I like in that aspect.  Other than that, I prefer the Alpha Primes.  If anybody's interested, you may PM me if you're interested in buying my HD800 (without the 6k peak as per the freq chart).  I haven't used them much ever since I got the Alpha Primes...
 
Dec 16, 2015 at 8:30 PM Post #1,835 of 2,891
My pair added to the sale section. I truly love these phones, and letting go of them makes me a little sad, but they don't get much ear time since I got the Ethers, and papa needs a new Woo tube amp for Christmas!
 
Dec 20, 2015 at 2:15 AM Post #1,836 of 2,891
Does anyone know what the capacitance of the DUM cable?
 
Dec 23, 2015 at 9:36 AM Post #1,837 of 2,891
Sorry if this has been covered before, but can anyone comment on whether the Ether C offers much improvement over the Primes?
 
I have the Primes and like them, but am thinking about the Ether C. However, the more I think abut it, would I be better keeping the Primes and getting the original (open) Ethers?
 
I don't always need sound isolation so I thought it would be good to have both options.
 
I have the Sennheiser 598's and actually really like  them, so was thinking a high end open headphone like the Ether may be the way to go.
 
Any thoughts?
 
Dec 23, 2015 at 9:48 AM Post #1,838 of 2,891
I am curious too, because from what I read on reviews they seem to be on the neutral  side compared to the somewhat warmer signature of the Primes.  You might want to ask on the Ether thread too.
 
Dec 23, 2015 at 10:15 AM Post #1,839 of 2,891
I am on my second day of burn-in for the Ether C's. Right out of the box, I heard a tremendous improvement in resolution compared to the Primes. In case you haven't seen it - Dan said this in the Ether C thread, and it's matching up exactly with my experience as I am acclimating to the new cans during burn-in:

First, Dave gave that feedback right after receiving the phones and I can't see how they were not burned in yet.  As many times as I state this most people don't burn the phones in and judge the bass right away, it takes 100+ hours, and it does change.  It's not an epic increase in bass but it's real and you'll hear it, out of the box it's slightly over-damped and the decay is too quick and amplitude is slightly increased as it settles (the point being you'll probably want to try it again after burn in, and while your mind may not change you'll at least know you're hearing what you should be).  

That said, the topic is hugely complex, and to answer it I have to write a tome.  These factors inter-relate so YMWV.  

1) ETHER has a stronger upper bass to lower mid region, they're about the same in the bass fundamental region, and ETHER C has more sub bass.  From about 140-300Hz, ETHER has up to 2-3 dB more output than ETHER C, and below 50Hz ETHER C has about 3-5dB more output than ETHER.  I find ETHER's upper bass is slightly warm of neutral, where C's will comparatively sound leaner in this region.  BUT how you experience this depends on your listening level and the choice of music...

2) Level: true sub bass is less audible until you increase volume to about 80dB, and as that is a safe level for long listening and it's also where you start to hear sub bass clearly (read about volume and bass perception here) so I optimize for 80-85dB.  Perfect point to both hear the bass and be able to listen for a long time.  I assume most customers for a headphone like ETHER value their hearing (seriously) and intend to have it healthy and don't listen at 95dB for four hours.  

As volume affects perception of lows and highs, a designer *must* pick a point to optimize voicing. I voice the headphones for 80-85dB because that's where the ear is most linear yet the SPL are safe for a long session.  If you listen below 80dB ETHER has more perceived bass because your ear just won't pick up the sub bass (EQ can easily solve this) and not only will it play the harmonics louder, and at frequencies you'll clearly hear them as louder.  As you hit 80dB ETHER C gets the more power on the bottom, but even then the harmonics are leaner, so you'll feel more power but depending on how you listen you may HEAR louder because you're queuing off overtones.  This latter is my theory after discussing this with many people at meets and seeing how they react.  This also heavily influenced my releasing the tuning kit, because it making the loudness dependency more flexible.

3) Content: Is there actually any sub bass in your music?  Most pop music has little or no sub bass, true sub bass is really only for EDM.  If you put on pop or rock and compare, ETHER has more bass at a comparable volume, for the reasons outlined in #2.  However, if you put on EDM and turn it up, ETHER C per #1 above ETHER C will have more of a foundation.  In real terms, the typical E string of a 4 string bass is tuned to ~41Hz, low enough so at low volumes you would usually hear more harmonic than fundamental but you will hear the lowest notes having a more solid bass on C, even while possible sounding not as loud due to the harmonics.  Confused yet?  

4) A lot of what people hear in bass is overtones and THD (THD can be thought of as emphasized overtones).  ETHER C's sub bass has very low THD and that, combined with the leaner upper bass presentation than ETHER means that if you AB ETHER vs ETHER C  you will almost always say ETHER has more bass if you are weighting the overtones that are more audible more than you are the fundamental, but if you listen for the real pressure waves, the fundamentals, ETHER C whomps ETHER, and if you listen to acoustic bass at say 85-90dB I think many people will hear that C has more presence and resolution.  

5) If you aren't getting a good seal on the C you won't get the sub bass, that's just the physics of it.  The deeper bass needs a good seal.  Thick hair that doesn't press flat or glasses will kill sub bass.

I've watched experienced listeners and reviewers get tangled up on this, it definitely is source and volume dependent, and it also factors WHAT you listen for, the harmonics or the fundamentals?  Many people hear the harmonics first, I think.

 It's a remarkably complex subject and there are no easy answers.  Many times it comes down to simply how loud you listen and what you listen to.  If your meat and potatoes is classical or jazz you may well prefer ETHER's bass, but for EDM or as an all around (because I love EDM) I go with C because I love the feel of the pressure wave, even though you can barely hear it you can feel it, and it's there at the levels I like to listen, and with a lot of what I listen to.  I tend to listen at 80-85 dB.

So to get the most bass out of ETHER C:

1) Use 2 black pads or 1 white.  This truly makes a noticeable difference by allowing the upper bass to have higher relative prominence, 1 white pad on each side gives me that "Funktion 1" sound I like.

2) Don't be afraid of EQ, digital EQ can be excellent in a good player and both ETHER's have very low THD and excellent transient response, so they take EQ really seamlessly.  Using Parametric EQ just add 2dB from 140-250 or 300Hz and you will probably immediately say ETHER C has more bass at any level.  To Parametric EQ ETHER add 3-4 dB below 15-50Hz.

3) Listen at 80dB plus on ETHER C.  80-85dB is safe for extended listening, but louder you need to pay attention to your levels and how long you listen for safety.  

4) Remember ETHER C will have a more powerful feel to the deepest bass, but that you will hear the overtones on ETHER more, so how you listen and experience will have a big impact.  

So summing up, I voiced the headphones so most people would like both but everyone would have a preference, this is part of that.  I don't think there's a right answer, but for the record, I used to play bass, and I love the instrument dearly.  For me, it's C for most music, except jazz where I often prefer ETHER.

Regarding your preference for the Alphas, look, maybe that's just your preference, there's nothing wrong with that.  I've had people prefer the Mad Dog to the Alpha Prime, though that has only happened twice.  So if you prefer the Alpha save some money, or decide to upgrade and use EQ because ETHERs love EQ and you can pretty easily hit that curve, but now with much greater resolution.  EQ can't fix a bad headphone, but it can do wonders to dial a solid headphone to precisely fit your tastes, and EQ is improving quickly in quality on a lot of the good players.

Just remember, you asked.  
:beerchug:  

Now that I've answered this I expect about 80 questions, so fire away.  I have more C's to build tonight, so it may be a while...  Hope this wasn't too confusing, I did not have time to truly copy edit.  If anyone spots errors let me know...
 
Dec 23, 2015 at 1:24 PM Post #1,840 of 2,891
So basically he's saying the Primes will never have the resolution of the Ether C, but you can EQ the Ether C to sound similar to the Prime (with better resolution and etc.).
 
You could be skeptical and say he's only saying that because the Ether makes him almost 3x the $$$ per sale, but he seems pretty honest. 
cool.gif
 
 
Dec 24, 2015 at 11:59 PM Post #1,842 of 2,891
Sorry if this has been covered before, but can anyone comment on whether the Ether C offers much improvement over the Primes?

I have the Primes and like them, but am thinking about the Ether C. However, the more I think abut it, would I be better keeping the Primes and getting the original (open) Ethers?

I don't always need sound isolation so I thought it would be good to have both options.

I have the Sennheiser 598's and actually really like  them, so was thinking a high end open headphone like the Ether may be the way to go.

Any thoughts?


Both Ethers offer more resolution and air than the Primes. They really are completely different animals. Best to audition both to figure out if they are what you are looking for. If you're near NYC, give me a shout. Prior to the Ethers, the Primes were my go-to for listening pleasure. Now it's all Ether.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 5:50 PM Post #1,845 of 2,891
  Need DAC/amp recommendation for Alpha Prime. Budget is 1000€, but can flex a small amount. Would the Schiit Bifrost & Lyr 2 combination work with the Alpha Prime? Or is there a better match?


There are other combinations at that price point, but it would be hard to beat the Bifrost/Lyr2.  I came close to buying another dac and amp, but have been more than pleased with my Bifrost/Lyr2/AP set up.  I've gotten into tube rolling to expand my Lyr2's signature, and am awaiting the return of my Bifrost with the multibit upgrade.  If you go that route, you can start with a very nice basic rig and upgrade down the line without chunking entire parts of the system.  
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top