[gto88]

Since the headphone has not been released, and not many went to CanJam, so
what we can talk is about general information.
And I agree this is a forum where we discuss all we can as long as not pinpoint people.
Once the headphone is released some will get their hand on it and share impression,
then this discussion should be more focus on SQ.

 

[VandyMan]

But don't go on the Coke website & tell everyone how much better Pepsi is, it doesn't really add to the conversation.

If Coke charged $5 a can and Pepsi charged $1 a can, do you really think people would just say, "well they taste different, so it is ok?" I think most would go ape-crap crazy. But a smart person might say: "lets compare Coke to other sodas and decide if it is really worth the asking price." That is what we do here on HeadFi. We compare performance, price, comfort, etc. If Meze really is better, than this process is good for them.

 

[gto88]

Yes, there are people would do that process, and would buy it after that or even buy it just for
doing through the process, then return it if they decide they don't like it.
And most of us will benefit from them.
This is why this forum exists!

 

[BuddhaBruce]

Yes, there are people would do that process, and would buy it after that or even buy it just for
doing through the process, then return it if they decide they don't like it.
And most of us will benefit from them.
This is why this forum exists!

Thank you. Yes! An objective discussion is a good discussion with opinions from both sides. People should not be bashed for saying "I think Utopia is better" or "I think the Aeon comes close in sound to the Empyrean"

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

I got torched a while back for basically saying the same thing to another poster but it had different Circumstances. Granted my style is “very” blunt and straight forward versus others. Bottom line, I’m fine the way I communicate as I’m not going to be so cautious that I may hurt someone’s feelings because of my “non political” way of communicating THEN walk on eggshells.
That’s where the “suck it up” comes into play.

You'll find a problem with "blunt communication", due to the nature of Head-fi itself, is not the blunt message, is the way you say things.
Head-fi bans politically incorrect posts or insults, but there's people in Head-fi that isn't banned and has more bile than all the "other forums" combined, they just write in a very subtle, sarcastic, apparently non offensive way, yet the message can be even worse than a simple insult.

 

[Pharmaboy]

You'll find a problem with "blunt communication", due to the nature of Head-fi itself, is not the blunt message, is the way you say things.
Head-fi bans politically incorrect posts or insults, but there's people in Head-fi that isn't banned and has more bile than all the "other forums" combined, they just write in a very subtle, sarcastic, apparently non offensive way, yet the message can be even worse than a simple insult.

Yes and no...if you were to wander into Super Audio Best Friends and start spouting subjective opinions that (in their view) are unsubstantiated by detailed/rigorous listening comparisons (+ maybe even some measurements)...out come the giant flame-throwers.

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

Yes and no...if you were to wander into Super Audio Best Friends and start spouting subjective opinions that (in their view) are unsubstantiated by detailed/rigorous listening comparisons (+ maybe even some measurements)...out come the giant flame-throwers.

First of all, you can't name or link the other forums.
Second, I'm weird and at the moment, only a Head-fi member, I'm not related to the other two forums.

And third, what I said is true, just take a look to some Head-fiers posts and see what is deleted and what is not.
Even if I wanted to troll this forum (and I don't want) by being a sarcastic prick, I can't, because I'm not a native english speaker and I don't even have the 20% of my native vocabulary, so I have to be direct...what happens to direct, politically incorrect people here? Delete.

 

[koover]

You'll find a problem with "blunt communication", due to the nature of Head-fi itself, is not the blunt message, is the way you say things.
Head-fi bans politically incorrect posts or insults, but there's people in Head-fi that isn't banned and has more bile than all the "other forums" combined, they just write in a very subtle, sarcastic, apparently non offensive way, yet the message can be even worse than a simple insult.

Being straight and blunt without insult or getting personal is an adult way of communicating. If someone is writing something with all CAP letters with numerous exclamation points, underlines,
Personal attacks and heaven forbid name calling, yadda yadda yadda, yeah, you’re yelling, are incorrect let alone politically incorrect and have crossed the line. People need to read something that is posted for what it is and not read into something that’s not there.
I don’t know how many times I’ve had to see some poor poster back track and have to aplogize because someone misinterpreted what they said when it was all unintentional.
If there’s all those punctuations? Yeah, then you’ve probably crossed the line. Sometimes and for a lot of people, coffee without sugar or creamer tastes just as good. Just depends on how you like your coffee, Black or sweetened.
Enough of this as it’s off topic. Rant complete.

 

[franz12]

My initial understanding of this product is it is just a demonstration (or conceptual) of their advanced technology. Not for a general consumer.

Then I realized the price about 3.5k is still within a reach for many of us. The price of which is not astronomical like HE1 or Hifiman Sangri-La ($60,000), which even the manufacturers don't seem to care about their sales.

So debate is going on here.

There are legitimate concerns from both parties. Some people love to see a new product in a market and hope new technology trickles down to a more affordable product some day.
Other people concern that some people will be lured into making a big mistake with excessive hype. I believe most of us suffered from a financial loss at some point from buying expansive audio gears, only to find a better one was available at the 1/5 fraction of a price.

IMO, new headfiers should take all opinions and hypes in this forum with a big grain of salt. Still, I like head-fi as we have freedom of speech unlike the other forum

 

[jinxy245]

Listen, I'm all for a constructive conversation. Forgive the sarcasm here but that's why we're here? Duh!

I'm honestly not that dumb.

But saying (for example...not trying to call one person out) "this one is better than that one' isn't part of a discussion...it's a statement of belief.

If you want to make a statement like that, it's helpful to say something along the lines of "Using XYZ, I found it to be more resolving, and I like that better than....." Then we have a reference for what you're using, what your preferences are etc.

What is it you like about one more than another? What is your chain (source amp etc.?) What are your preferences?

I don't think it's a crime or a problem to like one thing more than another. We all have different preferences & different opinions. That's great.

What I'm challenging is what we post where & why. It's all cool, and we're all adults here. It's not obvious because we're communicating through words on a screen, but I'm not upset or anything (not even close).

If you think Meze should consider changing their tuning, that's a conversation to have, especially since the voicing doesn't seem to be finalized.

I'm reacting off of a bunch of posts that were basically no more than 'this thing is too expensive & I'd never pay that much.'

Well then maybe this thread isn't for you.

Meze might just change their voicing, but because of R&D & a ton of other reasons that we aren't privy to, it isn't likely they're going to lower the price, and they already said this tech is going to trickle down.

Again, I'm all for a constructive conversation, but not so much if it turns into a 'me too!' type of thing. I don't think that's constructive at all.

 

[BuddhaBruce]

Listen, I'm all for a constructive conversation. Forgive the sarcasm here but that's why we're here? Duh!

I'm honestly not that dumb.

But saying (for example...not trying to call one person out) "this one is better than that one' isn't part of a discussion...it's a statement of belief.

If you want to make a statement like that, it's helpful to say something along the lines of "Using XYZ, I found it to be more resolving, and I like that better than....." Then we have a reference for what you're using, what your preferences are etc.

What is it you like about one more than another? What is your chain (source amp etc.?) What are your preferences?

I don't think it's a crime or a problem to like one thing more than another. We all have different preferences & different opinions. That's great.

What I'm challenging is what we post where & why. It's all cool, and we're all adults here. It's not obvious because we're communicating through words on a screen, but I'm not upset or anything (not even close).

If you think Meze should consider changing their tuning, that's a conversation to have, especially since the voicing doesn't seem to be finalized.

I'm reacting off of a bunch of posts that were basically no more than 'this thing is too expensive & I'd never pay that much.'

Well then maybe this thread isn't for you.

Meze might just change their voicing, but because of R&D & a ton of other reasons that we aren't privy to, it isn't likely they're going to lower the price, and they already said this tech is going to trickle down.

Again, I'm all for a constructive conversation, but not so much if it turns into a 'me too!' type of thing. I don't think that's constructive at all.

Which is exactly what I did. Ill reiterate, or you can go back a page and see for yourself. Your last post wrote

I really wish people would knock it off.

!st off, you really have to ask yourself if bashing a product in it's own thread is helpful or not. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

2ndly, we're talking about differently voiced headphones here.

You like the Voce (Utopia, LCD4, *insert headphone here*) better? Awesome! Congrats and enjoy. Does that mean it's a 'better' headphone?
(Keeping in mind that whatever 'better' means hasn't even been defined at this point.)

I'd say No.

One persons 'more revealing' is another's 'too bright'. Or one might think a certain smoothness draws them into the music and another might think it's dull & limp.

We're trying to write about sonics, which isn't the easiest thing to do to begin with. Add personal preference and we're entering into a totally different ballgame.

I heard Empyrean, Voce, Final D8000, Utopia at CanJam NYC as well. They all perform fantastically. They're all viced differently. And there are 3 different types of drivers.

Lets not even open up the effect that the chain has on the performance...what DAC? What Amp? What source?

If you're in the market, and this is your price range...pick the one that works best for you. Great.

But don't go on the Coke website & tell everyone how much better Pepsi is, it doesn't really add to the conversation.

That last sentence kind of states I can't post an opinion on this thread cause I mentioned another headphone! All I wrote was

"I think you're overhyping the Empyrean... but hey that like... your opinion man.

I tried the Voce and Empyrean one after the other with some of the best amps that were on the table. Blue hawaii for the Voce and well... forgot what the Empyrean was hooked up to but I tried multiple. The Voce just had better details and a clearer sound to me with very nice bass impact. Not as smooth as the Empyrean but that's an electrostat for you I guess. Personally I don't think the Empyrean is an end all be all for me. It sure is gorgeous though"

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

@BuddhaBruce According to @XERO1, there were two very different versions of the Empyrean at the show, so the fact that you liked it's sound or not, is completely irrelevant because the production version might sound completely different to the ones that were in the show.
Now what? Is this "your opinion man" or even better, is it a "stop writing nonsense based on a 10 minutes listening at a noisy show to a headphone that will be different to the production one"?...pick your poison!

As I said a few pages back, let's wait a couple of months to hear with accuracy what this new headphone is or not, at the moment, all this thread is vaporware.

 

[jinxy245]

That last sentence kind of states I can't post an opinion on this thread cause I mentioned another headphone! All I wrote was

Nah, it's fine to compare and contrast...as you said, that's kinda the point and I'm all for it.

It's just if you're going to say "I think Utopia is better" or "I think the Aeon comes close in sound to the Empyrean", give more specifics (as you in fact did.) I honestly wasn't calling you out. I just need more of a reference than "Utopia is better".

To oversimplify, Just saying 'this sucks for the price' is not helpful. Especially on the Empyrean thread.

The thing is once you get to this level, it boiling down to preference more than performance. You said it best yourself when you said

"The Voce just had better details and a clearer sound to me with very nice bass impact. Not as smooth as the Empyrean but that's an electrostat for you I guess. Personally I don't think the Empyrean is an end all be all for me. It sure is gorgeous though" (Emphasis obviously added).

 

[BuddhaBruce]

@BuddhaBruce According to @XERO1, there were two very different versions of the Empyrean at the show, so the fact that you liked it's sound or not, is completely irrelevant because the production version might sound completely different to the ones that were in the show.
Now what? Is this "your opinion man" or even better, is it a "stop writing nonsense based on a 10 minutes listening at a noisy show to a headphone that will be different to the production one"?...pick your poison!

As I said a few pages back, let's wait a couple of months to hear with accuracy what this new headphone is or not, at the moment, all this thread is vaporware.

Wow I guess this whole thread should be deleted then. Since no one has listened to a production model lol. Why would they even bring it to a show if it's not an inkling of what they are going after? If they didn't want opinions on it? If they didn't want people to try it?

That "your opinion man" is a reference to the big lebowski. Watch it. Clearly it's my opinion as I've stated with the"I" and the "personally"

So we just shouldn't talk about anything related to it's sound on here? I said it's a gorgeous headphone, but hey... that's like my opinion man. And I guess all the people who are head over heals for these from their initial impressions shouldn't expect anything either

 

[BuddhaBruce]

Nah, it's fine to compare and contrast...as you said, that's kinda the point and I'm all for it.

It's just if you're going to say "I think Utopia is better" or "I think the Aeon comes close in sound to the Empyrean", give more specifics (as you in fact did.) I honestly wasn't calling you out. I just need more of a reference than "Utopia is better".

To oversimplify, Just saying 'this sucks for the price' is not helpful. Especially on the Empyrean thread.

The thing is once you get to this level, it boiling down to preference more than performance. You said it best yourself when you said

"The Voce just had better details and a clearer sound to me with very nice bass impact. Not as smooth as the Empyrean but that's an electrostat for you I guess. Personally I don't think the Empyrean is an end all be all for me. It sure is gorgeous though" (Emphasis obviously added).

Agreed - simple statements like that should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe more explanation and detail is needed to statements like that but I don't think it's right to just say they are worthless comments. In the end, it's a headphone that will dictate the quality of sound - less so an amp/dac. Amp/dac will help to some extent but it's the headphones we're all looking at.

I do agree though, ofc your chain of gear has effects but as all we have are general impressions we can't be so confident to write it off either.