[bimmer100]

so in a way you compared both....
one can sound good with any amp and the other needs investment in specific amp after dropping $6K

In a way... yes. Considering I own both of these headphones. However I own two pairs of the empyreans and just one pair of susvara. I absolutely love both headphones, however prefer the empyreans overall and my wife does too. By no means am I saying the susvara is bad in any way... but spending 6K and needing to still buy a very expensive amp... that’s something that should be considered.

 

[bimmer100]

This comment will probably be unfair, but here it is: I heard the Susvara twice at CanJam NYC. Both times (different rooms/different amps & DACs) I found it to sound very bright, tipped up, and non-musical. I could have listened a lot longer than I did, but the sound was actually aversive to my ears...off-putting, so both times, I took them off my head pretty quickly.

I've been averse to peaky/trebly audio for a long time. It was one of my first realizations in transitioning from mass market speakers & receivers to audiophile gear: I just couldn't handle speakers or anything equipment that promoted detail & "accuracy" over the natural weight in lower registers and nice sparkle (but not brightness) I heard IRL musical events.

The Empyrean instantly worked for me (it was love at first listen), while the Susvara most definitely did not. BTW, I have nothing against Hifiman. In fact, the HEX v2 is one of my favorite headphones ever.

I have to say that I don’t agree with. Susvara being harsh in the top end. I would like to ask what dac and amp was paired with the susvara since In my experience they are sooooo picky with amp and dac and don’t pair well with a lot of gear out there. Also I’m curious What approx dB do you like to listen at, since the susvara are very insensitive and cannot be driven to sound neutral unless the amp literally is a beast yet it also must be incredibly low distortion to do it any justice... there is a shortlist for these amps.... and that list is really really short! That is one of many reasons I love the empyreans since they are not nearly as picky as susvara’s. After a lot of listening I find the susvara as my second fav pair of headphones overall. The empyreans I find to be a tremendous value... which may sound insane however they are extemely well made and of the finest fit and finish of any pair of headphones I’ve ever owned... by a significant margin too! Those who have owned a lot of headphones will have known that some particular headphones are crazy particular about what they are paired with... even some headphones are extemely sensitive to cable changes...

Anyhow, this thread is about the empyrean so will focus mainly on that. But the susvara is a very neutral headphone if paired properly, and I’ve found when using most amps it sounds horrid. I think the susvara’s true signature is quite impressive if it’s not starved or the dac isn’t ideal.

Anyhow, I’m done. But I can agree I’ve heard the susvara in many other setups. I do own a pair and have had a pair since they came out. But still pop a pair on to listen if it’s with another amp and dac I’ve not heard them with. Most of the time I’m not surprised to find them being starved of their abilities due to the poor pairing.

Why bother, the empyreans are efficient and don’t require a mega budget for a behemoth amplifier. Although they do benefit from hyper realistic low distortion amplifiers. The empyreans surely impress me and have very few negative things I could say about them.

 

[project86]

This comment will probably be unfair, but here it is: I heard the Susvara twice at CanJam NYC. Both times (different rooms/different amps & DACs) I found it to sound very bright, tipped up, and non-musical. I could have listened a lot longer than I did, but the sound was actually aversive to my ears...off-putting, so both times, I took them off my head pretty quickly.

I've been averse to peaky/trebly audio for a long time. It was one of my first realizations in transitioning from mass market speakers & receivers to audiophile gear: I just couldn't handle speakers or anything equipment that promoted detail & "accuracy" over the natural weight in lower registers and nice sparkle (but not brightness) I heard IRL musical events.

The Empyrean instantly worked for me (it was love at first listen), while the Susvara most definitely did not. BTW, I have nothing against Hifiman. In fact, the HEX v2 is one of my favorite headphones ever.

Sounds to me like a classic case of improperly powering the Susvara. Much like underpowering the OG HE-6 back in the day - no good can come of it. And yes, this can include HiFiMAN using their own gear as well, even when it is supposedly designed specifically for their own headphones. Personally I don't think they have any business making expensive amplifiers.... they can do fine on a smaller scale (ie their interchangable amp cards/DAPs) but for big headphones their amps have always underwhelmed me by a large margin.

Not saying Susvara is better than Empyrean when properly driven. I'm still up in the air on that, which is a point in Meze's favor considering the price discrepancy.

 

[jlbrach]

go figure, i think the susvara is a truly mind blowing experience

 

[Rowethren]

@Pharmaboy I am sure you must have said before but what pads do you normally use with the Empyrean?

 

[Pharmaboy]

@Pharmaboy I am sure you must have said before but what pads do you normally use with the Empyrean?

Still burning mine in. Had leathers on when I opened the case, so that's what's still on them.

However, I had abundant opportunity to test leather vs alacandra at CanJam, both in the Meze booth (quiet, uncrowded) and other places. The sound from each pad is certainly somewhat different (posted before in this thread about that). I like the sound of both pads.

IMS I'll probably gravitate toward alacantra for classical, choral, jazz, any acoustic music; and leathers for any music w/a strong beat.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Sounds to me like a classic case of improperly powering the Susvara. Much like underpowering the OG HE-6 back in the day - no good can come of it. And yes, this can include HiFiMAN using their own gear as well, even when it is supposedly designed specifically for their own headphones. Personally I don't think they have any business making expensive amplifiers.... they can do fine on a smaller scale (ie their interchangable amp cards/DAPs) but for big headphones their amps have always underwhelmed me by a large margin.

Not saying Susvara is better than Empyrean when properly driven. I'm still up in the air on that, which is a point in Meze's favor considering the price discrepancy.

Both @bimmer100 & you point out yet another reason my comment about the Susvara was unfair (something I was unaware of)--possibly inadequate amping. Honestly can't recall the amps used either time I heard them, so that may well have been a factor.

 

[project86]

Well I wouldn't call it unfair in an accusatory sort of way... you know I trust your impressions as honest, even where they might differ from mine. Just the description sounded like a classic case of underamping, which was very often the case with the original HE-6 - hence people having vastly divided opinions of the (particularly in the early days, before we really learned about how much power they wanted).

Or it could just be you don't care for Susvara much... which is fine if it really is the case.

Or, it could be unit to unit variation, which is definitely something I've experienced from HiFiMAN.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Still burning mine in. Had leathers on when I opened the case, so that's what's still on them.

However, I had abundant opportunity to test leather vs alacandra at CanJam, both in the Meze booth (quiet, uncrowded) and other places. The sound from each pad is certainly somewhat different (posted before in this thread about that). I like the sound of both pads.

IMS I'll probably gravitate toward alacantra for classical, choral, jazz, any acoustic music; and leathers for any music w/a strong beat.

For some reason, the comfort of the Alcantara felt weird on my face/head. The leather was so much better. I even told the Meze guy that I much preferred the leather pads.

 

[Imusicman]

For some reason, the comfort of the Alcantara felt weird on my face/head. The leather was so much better. I even told the Meze guy that I much preferred the leather pads.

+1

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

+1

They felt stiff, but they are supposed to be as soft as leather. It's kinda strange. I rather have fabric over leather too.

 

[kumar402]

For some reason, the comfort of the Alcantara felt weird on my face/head. The leather was so much better. I even told the Meze guy that I much preferred the leather pads.

For me it is otherway around.
I changed the pad to the Alcantara one Very next day. May be I'm used to sennheiser 600 and 800 so much that I end up with pads similar to sennhesier's finishing.
I feel uncomfortable with leather. Even in my Z1R I don't like the pads it comes with. It gets really hot.
I didn't use the leather pad of Empyrean for longer duration as I changed it so can't comment on it.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

For me it is otherway around.
I changed the pad to the Alcantara one Very next day. May be I'm used to sennheiser 600 and 800 so much that I end up with pads similar to sennhesier's finishing.
I feel uncomfortable with leather. Even in my Z1R I don't like the pads it comes with. It gets really hot.
I didn't use the leather pad of Empyrean for longer duration as I changed it so can't comment on it.

See, it's very strange. I actually like both materials a lot, They just pressed on my face too much, it was weird, when the review sample comes in a few weeks I'll check them out some more and see If things change for me.

 

[Currawong]

well I can understand the R&D went for Empyrean. Be its headband design, CNC milling of the cups and the innovation in the driver to warrant price of $3K. Just look at the ease and the innovative way to put on the ear pads and to use the ear pads attachment as a way to refine the sound is just too good.
Have to look into susvara specs and engineering to understand if it can warrant such a high price. I mean its 2x the price of Empyrean.
No comment on the capabilities of it. May be sounds out of word but really 6K???

I imagine the HiFiMan pricing is the result of the local market where it is normal to ask for a substantial discount. By elevating the price, it gives dealers a much larger margin to work with.

I have yet to try the Susvaras out of a full-size speaker amp, so I'll give that a go with the Master 10. I actually am fine listening with them directly from the iFi Pro iDSD.

I need to try the Empyrean out of the Pro iDSD for that matter.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

[QUOTE="Currawong, post: 14825066, member: 65761"]I imagine the HiFiMan pricing is the result of the local market where it is normal to ask for a substantial discount. By elevating the price, it gives dealers a much larger margin to work with.

I have yet to try the Susvaras out of a full-size speaker amp, so I'll give that a go with the Master 10. I actually am fine listening with them directly from the iFi Pro iDSD.

I need to try the Empyrean out of the Pro iDSD for that matter.[/QUOTE]
How is the soundstage straight out of the Idsd? Out of the head and on the sides? Wondering if you only get that experience once it's fully powered properly.