[ninjikiran]

Might be a folley at best, even the designer of the device said only a single opamp works out of the headphone output.
 
One way to test for yourself is pop out the center opamp and notice that even with that circuit not being complete you still get sound

, and theres no "bypass"
Quote:

No way! Whenever I rolled between the LF353N and LM4562 in the DAC, the sound was different. Please don't kill my dreams and tell me what I heard was all psychological. Please!

 
Also, with two LM4562, I get stable (make that balanced) low listening volumes as opposed to the LF353N sitting in it. Whenever I put back the LF353N, the imbalance comes back so I am pretty sure the opamp in the DAC has an influence to the sound to some degree.
 

 

 

[etteoh]

Nooooooooo! I want refunds! Damn it!
 
But before I go and get all anal with the reseller, which by the way is no fault of his, I'm going to do that little test you recommended. I want to at least get to the bottom of the sound imbalance mystery

 
Quote:

Might be a folley at best, even the designer of the device said only a single opamp works out of the headphone output.
 
One way to test for yourself is pop out the center opamp and notice that even with that circuit not being complete you still get sound

, and theres no "bypass"

 

[Ultrainferno]

???
 
If Ryan says its only one opamp you should probably believe it

What's the story with the refund because of this? Or did I just miss the humor in that one?

 
Quote:

Nooooooooo! I want refunds! Damn it!

 

 

[ninjikiran]

He is getting channel imbalances either with that weird combo with the default opamp in the RCA output stage and LM4562 in the Headphone Amp output.  Or so I assume which in itself is really really strange~
 
If its the other way around though I would assume bad opamp, and call it a day.  But to have channel imbalances due to an opamp that has no bearing on the actual output is just wrong.
 
On opamps I used an OPA SUN in the center opamp position(and amp position) but all it did imo was add a little noise or distortion on really upper highs.  Right now I have an LM4562 in my maverick for RCA output and a 3.3k Class A Biased LM49720(supposedly a re-branded 4562) in my external HPA.  The only thing that seemed to make a positive difference in opamps for me was the biasing.
Quote:

???
 
If Ryan says its only one opamp you should probably believe it

What's the story with the refund because of this? Or did I just miss the humor in that one?

 

 

 

[etteoh]

I believe Ryan...I believe you guys too...but I also trust my ears to know it's something more than just mere psychological effects. Either that, or the previous owner must have done some kinda mod to the D1. As much as I'd like to deny it now after knowing the opamp on the DAC does not affect the headphones out, I know for sure the signature of the sound becomes different from rolling one opamp to another. Plus I can't seem to understand why I'd get channel imbalance from it too...I have two different LF353N opamps that I tried. Both gave me the same channel imbalance. None of which were present with either of the LM4562.
 
Oh the refund thing was a forced humor gone wrong. I was just trying to cheer myself up...sorry

But I ain't letting no soul take me D1 away from me

 
Quote:

???
 
If Ryan says its only one opamp you should probably believe it

What's the story with the refund because of this? Or did I just miss the humor in that one?

 

 

 

[ninjikiran]

I don't understand why youde get the channel imbalance either, I think there is something wrong with your unit.  If the center opamp is not connected to the headphone output then its impossible to get any advantage out of it

  Its all psychoacoustics or part of the defect.
 
Trusting your ears on head-fi is often a death sentence, because you'll go absolutely insane.  Sometimes you have to trust them, but in this situation if your ears are right something is wrong and not right

, that being said if the imbalance doesn't occur with th 4562 opamp in there then keep it there.  But I would actually e-mail their support @ mav-audio.com.  Even if you got it by a third party, they might be able to talk you through it better and see what the problem is.
 
I actually had the  default opamp in the RCA output stage for the longest and never had any channel imbalances.  Still try to see if you get the same imbalances with no opamp in there, a worthy experiment.
 
Quote:

I believe Ryan...I believe you guys too...but I also trust my ears to know it's something more than just mere psychological effects. Either that, or the previous owner must have done some kinda mod to the D1. As much as I'd like to deny it now after knowing the opamp on the DAC does not affect the headphones out, I know for sure the signature of the sound becomes different from rolling one opamp to another. Plus I can't seem to understand why I'd get channel imbalance from it too...I have two different LF353N opamps that I tried. Both gave me the same channel imbalance. None of which were present with either of the LM4562.
 
Oh the refund thing was a forced humor gone wrong. I was just trying to cheer myself up...sorry

But I ain't letting no soul take me D1 away from me

 

 

 

[etteoh]

Spot on dude! Channel imbalance only if I use the stock opamps on the DAC. Doesn't matter what I use on the headphones stage. Left channel is louder than the right (or right channel is softer than the left, whichever way you want it served) but only apparent when the volume knob is at 7'o clock or 7:30. If LF353N is on the headphones out and LM4562 on the DAC, no problem. LM4562 on both stages, no problem. Puzzling...

 
Quote:

He is getting channel imbalances either with that weird combo with the default opamp in the RCA output stage and LM4562 in the Headphone Amp output.  Or so I assume which in itself is really really strange~
 
If its the other way around though I would assume bad opamp, and call it a day.  But to have channel imbalances due to an opamp that has no bearing on the actual output is just wrong.
 
On opamps I used an OPA SUN in the center opamp position(and amp position) but all it did imo was add a little noise or distortion on really upper highs.  Right now I have an LM4562 in my maverick for RCA output and a 3.3k Class A Biased LM49720(supposedly a re-branded 4562) in my external HPA.  The only thing that seemed to make a positive difference in opamps for me was the biasing.

 

[ninjikiran]

Quote:

Spot on dude! Channel imbalance only if I use the stock opamps on the DAC. Doesn't matter what I use on the headphones stage. Left channel is louder than the right (or right channel is softer than the left, whichever way you want it served) but only apparent when the volume knob is at 7'o clock or 7:30. If LF353N is on the headphones out and LM4562 on the DAC, no problem. LM4562 on both stages, no problem. Puzzling...

 

 

take out the center opamp all together, and try it with the headphone opamp plugged in only.  And try all 3 opamps in the headphone position before you call it a night, I am curious.  I would also try the RCA output if you have an adapter to plug your headphones into and see if there is any channel imbalance if you raise the volume to near max(since its not the amp it will be a little low)
 
Also the amp has some channel imbalance till about your 4th click in.

 

[etteoh]

Something wrong with my unit??? Oh hell no...why me? I'm prepared to get all denial, leave the LM4562s in both stages and just pretend there is nothing wrong with the unit because that way, it is perfect

I can't for the life of me send the unit back somewhere for fixing (if there's really something wrong). Considering where I'm at, I don't think I can live that long without it, more so given it's a new toy

You know how that feels right?
 
But you have a good point...maybe I should drop support an email in regards to this "problem" and see what they say because I really want to know what gives.And yes, I will try it later with no opamp in the DAC section to see if the imbalance is present. Thanks dude!
 
Quote:

I don't understand why youde get the channel imbalance either, I think there is something wrong with your unit.  If the center opamp is not connected to the headphone output then its impossible to get any advantage out of it

  Its all psychoacoustics or part of the defect.
 
Trusting your ears on head-fi is often a death sentence, because you'll go absolutely insane.  Sometimes you have to trust them, but in this situation if your ears are right something is wrong and not right

, that being said if the imbalance doesn't occur with th 4562 opamp in there then keep it there.  But I would actually e-mail their support @ mav-audio.com.  Even if you got it by a third party, they might be able to talk you through it better and see what the problem is.
 
I actually had the  default opamp in the RCA output stage for the longest and never had any channel imbalances.  Still try to see if you get the same imbalances with no opamp in there, a worthy experiment.
 

 

[etteoh]

I like your troubleshooting skills man

I'm so gonna be busy later

 
Ok, with LM4562 in both stages, channel imbalance only happens on the first click. After that, good all the way.
 
With the LF353N in the DAC, the imbalance lasts up till the 3rd click. 4th click onwards, it's good.
 
This is some weird crap right?

 
Quote:

take out the center opamp all together, and try it with the headphone opamp plugged in only.  And try all 3 opamps in the headphone position before you call it a night, I am curious.  I would also try the RCA output if you have an adapter to plug your headphones into and see if there is any channel imbalance if you raise the volume to near max(since its not the amp it will be a little low)
 
Also the amp has some channel imbalance till about your 4th click in.

 

[ninjikiran]

Its only weird because an opamp that's not related to the output is doing it, well it would be weird if there were that big a decibel gap between opamps.
 
I have one of the original high gain units which don't start to give you real volume in the first 2-3 clicks.  ATM I use a better amp with the mavs dac.
Quote:

I like your troubleshooting skills man

I'm so gonna be busy later

 
Ok, with LM4562 in both stages, channel imbalance only happens on the first click. After that, good all the way.
 
With the LF353N in the DAC, the imbalance lasts up till the 3rd click. 4th click onwards, it's good.
 
This is some weird crap right?

 

 

 

[Ultrainferno]

Do you actually listen at 4 clicks? if you always listen above 4 clicks, then problem solved

 

[etteoh]

Agreed! It's bugging me crazy now that I found out from you the DAC section of the opamp is supposed to have no effect on the headphones out.
 
My unit I believe is the reduced gain version since I can even take it past 10 o'clock on some recordings...with a Grado SR325is

My cans would have blown (if not my ears) had I tried the same with one of the original high gain units.
 
Quote:

Its only weird because an opamp that's not related to the output is doing it, well it would be weird if there were that big a decibel gap between opamps.
 
I have one of the original high gain units which don't start to give you real volume in the first 2-3 clicks.  ATM I use a better amp with the mavs dac.

 

 

[etteoh]

LOL! Well, I like doing soft listenings in the late evenings and 2 to 3 clicks works nicely IF the LM4562 is in the DAC stage. I can't live with channel imbalance.
 
4 clicks up is very possible with the reduced gain unit. As I told ninjikiran, I can even take it past 10 o'clock, easily, on some recordings and to quote one such album is the ALR Jordan Voices.
 
Quote:

Do you actually listen at 4 clicks? if you always listen above 4 clicks, then problem solved

 

[ninjikiran]

My k702's needed about 6-8 clicks, depending on the recording

 
But I found the stepped attenuator do do these headphones wrong.  Though the entire amp was an overall upgrade for me on many levels.
Quote:

LOL! Well, I like doing soft listenings in the late evenings and 2 to 3 clicks works nicely IF the LM4562 is in the DAC stage. I can't live with channel imbalance.
 
4 clicks up is very possible with the reduced gain unit. As I told ninjikiran, I can even take it past 10 o'clock, easily, on some recordings and to quote one such album is the ALR Jordan Voices.