[hifimanrookie]

1. 
   

Lolz..i didnt know it also so when i heared it the first time.i found out .Its a diy amp... Check this website.


http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=o2full

 

[Taowolf51]

Quote:

Just wonder, when I read that M-Stage was inspired by BCL, does it mean they just stole the idea?
 
THX

This is the BCL:

 
 
 
And this is the original M-Stage:

 
Looking at the Board layout, they're pretty much identical.
 
However, in the past several years, the M-Stage has changed a bit (they upgrade it a bit each year):

 
However, it's still very similar.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

 

 
Richie Blackmore (guitar player extraordinare!),
 
The O2 is a DIY headphone amp, as The Rookie pointed out, but there are also 2 or 3 companies that can furnish you with a fully assembled O2.
 
It's claim to fame is that someone decided to design a headphone amp purely by measurements, he does not seem to believe in listening tests.
If you go on his website, you can see a very thorough set of lab measurements.
It measures quite well!
Apparently he has taken no money for this, anyone may build and sell the O2 without paying him royalties!
He has not designed in expensive parts or fancy audiophile parts, so you see it selling for less than $200.00
All very commendable!
I take my hat off to him.
 
Obviously I have a bit of a problem when people assume that if the O2 sounds different than another amp, then the assumption is that the O2 is right, the other amp is wrong.
There is one guy on Head Fi who had an O2 and an M Stage. He used AKG K70x or Q701s.
He preferred the M Stage with the AKGs.
He sounds like a reasonable guy, I have no reason to not accept & respect his opinion.
 
OTOH, I own an Matrix M myself, I don't think it is perfect, but for what I paid for it, I'm happy!

 
And here is the point of view of one Electrical Engineer on a very pessimistic day:
"Since all headphone amplifiers are built using non-linear, imperfect devices, then all headphone amplifiers are imperfect.
Pick your favourite imperfections, buy it and listen to it."
 
C.

 

[Satellite_6]

Quote:

 
*Ahem*....As some people prefer an amp should

*Ahem* ....As an amp should if you know anything about audio reproduction at all

 

[WestLander]

 
...Anyway, does anyone know why exactly the M-Stage does so well with the AKG family? What accounts for this sonic harmony?

 

[Blackmore]

Guys, I am sure M Stage sounds good for many users, otherwise, why they bought it in the first place, but Lehmann been around for many years and build the reputation as very professional company, which means a lot to me. I know BCL very well, fantastic performer, combines many things together that others just can dream of and  priced just right, so, when I see such brutal similarity, it doesnt do any good for me and even M Stage offers amazing performance, I will never buy one.
 
Thanks everyone for explanation about O2 amp, I saw the thread, but never paid any attention, its very difficult to keep up these days, to many gear around.
 
Happy listening.
 
Quote:

From what i understand its a clone..some even say the mstage sounds better..i dont know that..but i do know that bcl amp is known to be an excellent amp for the money also

so the mstage must be rediculously priced

in a good way..lolz

 
Quote:

Lolz..i didnt know it also so when i heared it the first time.i found out .Its a diy amp... Check this website.


http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=o2full

 
Quote:

This is the BCL:

 
 
 
And this is the original M-Stage:

 
Looking at the Board layout, they're pretty much identical.
 
However, in the past several years, the M-Stage has changed a bit (they upgrade it a bit each year):

 
However, it's still very similar.

 
Quote:

 
Richie Blackmore (guitar player extraordinare!),
 
The O2 is a DIY headphone amp, as The Rookie pointed out, but there are also 2 or 3 companies that can furnish you with a fully assembled O2.
 
It's claim to fame is that someone decided to design a headphone amp purely by measurements, he does not seem to believe in listening tests.
If you go on his website, you can see a very thorough set of lab measurements.
It measures quite well!
Apparently he has taken no money for this, anyone may build and sell the O2 without paying him royalties!
He has not designed in expensive parts or fancy audiophile parts, so you see it selling for less than $200.00
All very commendable!
I take my hat off to him.
 
Obviously I have a bit of a problem when people assume that if the O2 sounds different than another amp, then the assumption is that the O2 is right, the other amp is wrong.
There is one guy on Head Fi who had an O2 and an M Stage. He used AKG K70x or Q701s.
He preferred the M Stage with the AKGs.
He sounds like a reasonable guy, I have no reason to not accept & respect his opinion.
 
OTOH, I own an Matrix M myself, I don't think it is perfect, but for what I paid for it, I'm happy!

 
And here is the point of view of one Electrical Engineer on a very pessimistic day:
"Since all headphone amplifiers are built using non-linear, imperfect devices, then all headphone amplifiers are imperfect.
Pick your favourite imperfections, buy it and listen to it."
 
C.

 

[Taowolf51]

Quote:

 
Guys, I am sure M Stage sounds good for many users, otherwise, why they bought it in the first place, but Lehmann been around for many years and build the reputation as very professional company, which means a lot to me. I know BCL very well, fantastic performer, combines many things together that others just can dream of and  priced just right, so, when I see such brutal similarity, it doesnt do any good for me and even M Stage offers amazing performance, I will never buy one.
 
Thanks everyone for explanation about O2 amp, I saw the thread, but never paid any attention, its very difficult to keep up these days, to many gear around.
 
Happy listening.
 

 
I can see where you're coming from. Truth be told, calling the M-Stage a chinese knockoff of the BCL isn't inaccurate. I think there are several reasons people do buy it, despite this. My personal reason was because the M-Stage is far and away the most recommended amp for the D7000's. I just wanted the best amp I could get for my headphones.
However, some may even take the price difference as a moral reason why they would go with the M-Stage. Considering the fact that Matrix is selling an amp very close in design with comparable parts to the BCL for just about $1000 less could lead some to believe Lehmann is price gouging their customers. While I don't know enough to confidently state whether that is true or not, I can see how the thought arises.

 

[hifimanrookie]

I can see where you're coming from. Truth be told, calling the M-Stage a chinese knockoff of the BCL isn't inaccurate. I think there are several reasons people do buy it, despite this. My personal reason was because the M-Stage is far and away the most recommended amp for the D7000's. I just wanted the best amp I could get for my headphones.
However, some may even take the price difference as a moral reason why they would go with the M-Stage. Considering the fact that Matrix is selling an amp very close in design with comparable parts to the BCL for just about $1000 less could lead some to believe Lehmann is price gouging their customers. While I don't know enough to confidently state whether that is true or not, I can see how the thought arises.

+1 i agree..that was also my reason to buy one to try how good it was..and damn..and good he was..if i didnt get my hands on my seriously good 337 the little mstage would still be my amp to use for my he500!

 

[Blackmore]

I remember the time when Lehmann was USD 780 and I believe its not that expensive in Europe as outside of it now, think of dealers profit only, so, the price tag isnt Lehmann fault only, but I am not in the position to make any justice for MSRP of any product, its to complicated and I left that battle field already.
 
THX
Quote:

 
I can see where you're coming from. Truth be told, calling the M-Stage a chinese knockoff of the BCL isn't inaccurate. I think there are several reasons people do buy it, despite this. My personal reason was because the M-Stage is far and away the most recommended amp for the D7000's. I just wanted the best amp I could get for my headphones.
However, some may even take the price difference as a moral reason why they would go with the M-Stage. Considering the fact that Matrix is selling an amp very close in design with comparable parts to the BCL for just about $1000 less could lead some to believe Lehmann is price gouging their customers. While I don't know enough to confidently state whether that is true or not, I can see how the thought arises.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

*Ahem* ....As an amp should if you know anything about audio reproduction at all

 
Hey!
Sometimes I like the colouration of a tube amp! 

Music for pleasure, I say.
I have to enjoy what I am listening to, and if tubes get me there sometimes, well why not?
 
Quote:

 
...Anyway, does anyone know why exactly the M-Stage does so well with the AKG family? What accounts for this sonic harmony?

 
There are those who claim the M Stage is dark sounding and this, um, colouration, um, compliments the bright Q701 sound.

There are some who claim the O2 is too bright for the Q.
 
Now look what we've started!   WW III!
 
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Guys, I am sure M Stage sounds good for many users, otherwise, why they bought it in the first place, but Lehmann been around for many years and build the reputation as very professional company, which means a lot to me. I know BCL very well, fantastic performer, combines many things together that others just can dream of and  priced just right, so, when I see such brutal similarity, it doesnt do any good for me and even M Stage offers amazing performance, I will never buy one.
 

 
Blackmore,
for some reason your stuff doesn't copy thru.

Anyway.
Hard to know what to say about the M Stage being a BCL clone.
There is NOTHING proprietary about the BCL circuit.
Power supply: same old thing
Amplifier:  BCL didn't invent the Op Amp followed by a discrete BJT output stage.
There is no copyright or patent infringement here that I can see.
 
It has been said that the M Stage uses cheaper components.
Obviously labour is cheaper in China than in Germany (BCL is built in Germany?)
Plus people buy M Stage on line, so no dealer mark up.
But you cannot audition M Stage in a store.

 

[hifimanrookie]

But as far i know not one mstage owner was unhappy with his little amp.. so that says a lot in my book

 

[elwappo99]

Did anyone ever compare this to the Sheer HA-006 amplifier. I think it's a Dynalo unit. 

 

[musicisthekey]

Would you recommend this amp with HE-400? If you do, what opamp would sound the best? Thanks.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Would you recommend this amp with HE-400? If you do, what opamp would sound the best? Thanks.

I had the he400 being driven perfectly by the mstage on gain 10db with opa627 class a mod

See www.tamaudio.com for more info bout this opamp

 

[Taowolf51]

Does anyone know the difference between the 627AU (single), 627AP (dual) and 627BP (dual)?