[gelocks]

Heya,
 
If you already like your Mad Dogs as they are, I don't see the point of doing another upgrade RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT! I'm pretty sure I don't own the most recent version as I had the Mad Dogs with Dog Pads and ordered the Alpha Pads separately. Still I enjoy them as they are right now.
 
Maybe when it rolls to a new version (Mad Dogs 4.0?) I MIGHT upgrade just for the heck of it.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure that the changes wont be pretty noticeable right now (I guess there's just so much you can extract from the same drivers and enclosure...) unless you listen to music NOT to experience it but to nitpick it... and if you want even better from your headphones, why not just get another pair? 

(i.e. currently listening to Ultrasone Signature DJs... GREAT headphones!)
 
 
Very Best,

 

[MattTCG]

^^ I don't agree with anything you said. I only wanted to chime in to say, "Long live MalVeaux!!"

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

^^ I don't agree with anything you said. I only wanted to chime in to say, "Long live MalVeaux!!"

 
Heya,
 
So, since you don't agree with ANYTHING I said, you then suggest that everyone SHOULD upgrade from 3.0 to 3.2 EVEN if people currently like the Mad Dogs as they are (and I haven't even seen a HUGE change in your impressions just that the Mad Dogs now "extend" lower)?
 
Yeah... got you...
 
 
Very best,

 

[MattTCG]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even me. 

 Go back and read my glowing praise for this build. There is no way that I'd tell anyone to "wait" when this is the best build yet by an appreciable margin. 
 
I believe that the re-tune to the current build is $30. Look at how much you've spent on this hobby in the past year and tell if that sounds like a lot of money. 

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
Heya,
 
If you already like your Mad Dogs as they are, I don't see the point of doing another upgrade RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT! I'm pretty sure I don't own the most recent version as I had the Mad Dogs with Dog Pads and ordered the Alpha Pads separately. Still I enjoy them as they are right now.
 
Maybe when it rolls to a new version (Mad Dogs 4.0?) I MIGHT upgrade just for the heck of it.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure that the changes wont be pretty noticeable right now (I guess there's just so much you can extract from the same drivers and enclosure...) unless you listen to music NOT to experience it but to nitpick it... and if you want even better from your headphones, why not just get another pair? 

(i.e. currently listening to Ultrasone Signature DJs... GREAT headphones!)
 
 
Very Best,
 

Kinda agree.
 
I have the Mad Dogs, which I sent in to Dan to be upgraded to the Alpha's, yet I'm still uncertain which version I have exactly. Ha!
 
At a certain point the MD sit on the sideline though, so the upgrades aren't a bother. But I can definitely see someone
who has the MD as their main can, or is on a budget getting a bit pissy over the 'constant' upgrades.
 
Not every iteration of the Mad Dog product has necessarily been better than the previous one. Mad Dog Pads to Alphas, for example.
So the fact that Dan is working to release what he feels are worthy improvements, differences, or options shouldn't be made to look as
a bad thing. Er, unless you NEED to have the latest and greatest otherwise you feel your value is schiit.
 
However IMO you shouldn't bitch about it. Either pony up for the upgrade or don't.
And for the international owner's, you've known your life is tough in regards to expense from shipping.
 
Don't blame Dan for those circumstances.

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

I believe that the re-tune to the current build is $30. Look at how much you've spent on this hobby in the past year and tell if that sounds like a lot of money. 

 
That sounds like more money than I know how to count. Once shipping is thrown in, I think my mind will be blown.

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even me. 

 Go back and read my glowing praise for this build. There is no way that I'd tell anyone to "wait" when this is the best build yet by an appreciable margin. 
 
I believe that the re-tune to the current build is $30. Look at how much you've spent on this hobby in the past year and tell if that sounds like a lot of money. 

 
Heya,
 
Matt, this is the only take I saw from your 3.2 version impressions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/613576/mad-dog-by-mrspeakers-modified-fostex-t50rp-review/5580#post_9398021
 
(I already have the Alpha pads, so if you mean your impressions with the Alpha Pads, I already have those... my point is going from 3.0 to 3.2 ... I haven't seen ANY full impressions on the changes other than what Dan posted.)
 
Also, if you are an "old" Mad Dogs buyer and started from Version 1, you have spent more than $30.
 
Initial Version 1 Mad Dogs --> $315 (with shipping)
Upgrade to Dog Pads --> don't remember, need to check my emails... but probably like $40?
Upgrade to Alpha Pads --> $50
Update to Version 3.2 --> $30 + $15 (shipping)
Let's say 2 extra updates are done in a year (this is being conservative): $60 + $30 (shipping)
 
Of course I have spent more than that, but that's not the point, the point is that if a current owner is happy with his current version, there's no NEED in a retune, especially if he's already at 3.0. As even Dan mentions:
 
Quote:

Dog Pads already upgraded to Alpha Pads:
 
it’s optional and worth considering if you’d like more top end air and more midrange presence
or more punch down low (not bass head, bass lover! The bass hits harder, is better filled in between
60-­‐90Hz, and goes down to about 12Hz, but it’s not going to THUD like a bass head phone).
It’s optional, but if you ever wish your phones were a little less dark or had more
energy in the upper mids and highs with more solid lows, this is worth consideration.

 
So, you might not agree with anything I said, but that doesn't mean that what I said doesn't make sense... ... ... I think! 

 
 
 
Very best,

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

 
The real change is in the weight of the sub bass. The MD is still not a bass hp. BUT...there is more weight and authority in the lower frequencies. It retains the textured quality that makes it realistic and instrument specific. And it also is still linear sounding, wonderfully accurate with bass light material and then punching hard with pop, new jazz and trip hop. 
 
I'm holding back a little bit here. The Alpha pads were a big step forward but the current build puts the bass where I hoped that it always would be...audiophile THUMP!! 

 
These were my comments after the newsletter yesterday. Me quoting myself. 

 

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

Although I appreciate the transparency about the recent tweaks, I think it's rather uncool to have 3 different versions available in such a short period of time (about 2 months, give or take). An international customer like myself is looking at paying an additional 20 to 25 percent of the original value in order to have the latest and greatest. My 2 cents, folks.

 
I understand your POV, and I thought very long and hard about this program because I knew some percentage would feel the same.  From the feedback I've received, I think it's safe to say most people like the program, but of course not everyone will.
 
In the end, my goal is to make a great product, and I'm not going to sit on improvements that benefit everyone (or can benefit everyone at some point) to follow a path of least resistance where nobody gets the best we could make or I wait some arbitrary amount of time to roll them out (which benefits nobody and makes an even larger pool of people who ultimately need updates once they're available).  From my POV, it'd be easier to sit back and do nothing, after all nobody gets upset when vendors do nothing to a product people like...  But *I* would know, and not be happy if I'm not delivering my best (for better or worse).
 
I want these headphones to give lasting value and joy for years, and I'm dedicated to transparency and investment protection. It's a LOT more work for me, from both a logistics and a PR perspective, but I believe it is better for everyone long-term.  Having an official program will give new and old customers confidence their product can be upgraded whenever it makes sense, and avoid short-term pressure to upgrade now or never, etc.  If this doesn't work for you leave the phones alone.  They were the best I could make when you bought them, and if you enjoyed them you should still enjoy them.  
 
The updates are incremental and will neither change your life or brighten your teeth, and I am not going to over market them.  But they are noticeable and good.  Others will share their experiences and comment, I'm sure.  If you are overseas, just wait until some domestic users have shared their experiences to weigh the cost and timing vs perceived improvements. In general I'd suggest overseas owners wait at least 6 months to update, just in case anything else comes out.  There's no pressure or hurry to act, after all...
 
And as I have said, I am extremely happy with where we are, so I expect improvements to be less frequent and make more subtle differences (if we even make any more updates).
 
Finally, international is very much in my mind.  We're not a huge company, and getting local service and support for single country markets, no matter how large, requires us to have a large enough installed base to create a business opportunity for local vendors.  Six months ago we were too small to look at support for the EU, now we're getting to a size where conversation makes sense.  I don't know when that will happen for Australia, but I can guess it will happen at some point as it is our fourth largest export market.

 

[CantScareMe]

How I see it is that dan is simultaneously making these headphones to fulfill orders and tinkering with potential improvements at the same time.
 
Now, once an improvement is discovered it's probably hard not to implement it straight away for the orders that are incoming, for the fostex he is modifying. What's the other option - carry on building what he knows know are not the best modified fostex he knows of untill a period of time whereupon he will roll out a super update, instead of these incremental ones?
 
I don't see any marketing ploy or mean money making intent behind this - just a guy with raw passion and enthusiasm for making these modified headphones though what I do see is an inherent price variation depending on if you live in america or not. For americans it's a top performing headphone value wise. Outside america I would disagree - decent value only.
 
Expense and Value
There is a confusion about the expense of this, so let me break it down and break it out, using figures from my paypal history:
 
Mad dog dog pad headphone - October 2013: £193 ($300)
Shipping - USA to UK inc taxes : £31 ($48)
Heaphone Customs/VAT - UK Border: £56
Alpha Pads - Inc shipping: £45 ($69)
Pads Customs/VAT - UK Border: £15
 
Any such tune up to the sound would say cost a further £50, putting the overall price (for the 3.2 mad dog) i have paid to double the price someone in america would pay if they were to order it now. 
 
 
I'm just laying out the facts - I expected this when I first bought them and am fine with it. 
 
In my opinion it is one of the best closed headphones on the market, though if you narrow it down to headphones that are isolating/non leaking then it's basically in the top three I would say (I haven't heard all of them, though I've been through quite a few). I would say though that the ultrasone signature dj is definitely better than the mad dog, where mine are of course the verison 3.0 - and I don't expect the gap between the mad dogs and ultrasone to be made up by the 3.2. 
 
I also must say that if I were to listen to it underamped, like through an e9 (which I love for easy to drive phones) I wouldn't put it in my top 5 best closed headphones. An 02 amp doesn't do much better neither does the audinst mx2 (though a bit better than the 02). A Heavyweight amp is needed In my opinion which doesn't need to come in at a heavyweight price either - beresford bushman sounds unbelievably good with this headphone and that's like £150.

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

 
Having an official program will give new and old customers confidence their product can be upgraded whenever it makes sense, and avoid short-term pressure to upgrade now or never, etc.  If this doesn't work for you leave the phones alone.  They were the best I could make when you bought them, and if you enjoyed them you should still enjoy them.  
 
The updates are incremental and will neither change your life or brighten your teeth, and I am not going to over market them.  But they are noticeable and good.  Others will share their experiences and comment, I'm sure.  If you are overseas, just wait until some domestic users have shared their experiences to weigh the cost and timing vs perceived improvements. In general I'd suggest overseas owners wait at least 6 months to update, just in case anything else comes out.  There's no pressure or hurry to act, after all...
 
And as I have said, I am extremely happy with where we are, so I expect improvements to be less frequent and make more subtle differences (if we even make any more updates).

 
Heya,
 
In bold is basically all I said in my previous posts... and this is coming from "the man"! Maybe Matt will agree now that Dan mentioned it...   

 
 
 
 
 
 
(lol Matt I'm just messing with you )
 
 
Very best,

 

[mrspeakers]

CantScareMe, that is one heckuva lot of gear in your profile.  You must have a dedicated "headphone room..."

 

[drm870]

I personally didn't see the problem as long as Dan A) labeled and distinguished the different versions (to clear confusion); and B) offered to upgrade previous buyers to the latest version (to be fair to them). I have to admit, I wasn't expecting the latter in particular to come to pass, given how small I get the impression his operation might be. Now that he's actually done both, though, I really don't see what the problem is.
 
I think his argument for making changes in the first place I think is pretty well thought out. And since he is going through with them, I think this is about as honorable a way to handle things as is possible. The price is even fair IMHO. (You can't just expect him to spend hours upgrading tons of headphones for free.)
 
Just my own thoughts.

 

[ssrock64]

Quote:

 
Finally, international is very much in my mind.  We're not a huge company, and getting local service and support for single country markets, no matter how large, requires us to have a large enough installed base to create a business opportunity for local vendors.  Six months ago we were too small to look at support for the EU, now we're getting to a size where conversation makes sense.  I don't know when that will happen for Australia, but I can guess it will happen at some point as it is our fourth largest export market.

Dan, did you ever expect to be saying something like this even just a year ago? Did you expect your creations to be this successful?

 

[mrspeakers]

Well no, the growth rate is about a year ahead of what I expected.  Thanks to all of you for your support and encouragement, it's what made it possible.