[Armaegis]

I am of the opinion that a DAC should be transparent, but an amp can be whatever flavour/colour I want it to be.

 

[MattTCG]

^^ I like this philosophy.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

This is the reason I stay away from tube amps. I want something that increases the volume level, but is audibly transparent. In my opininion, if you hear differences with an amp, the amp is coloring the sound.

I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this blanket statement.
 
Some of the most audibly transparent & REALISTIC amps I have heard on headphones and speakers have been tube amps. I myself, use a tube amp as one of my reference amps. 
 
It has been my experience, in 14 years of audio engineering, that many things can "color" or change the sound of the final audio going into your ears. The DAC can have a MAJOR impact on presentation. As can the pre-amp, the amp and/or the headphones. 
 
However, the most important aspect and what makes the MOST difference if the source material being played. I have heard many a time when the amp is blamed for sounding bad and causing "harmonic distortion" when the crackle is ACTUALLY ON THE RECORDING ITSELF. The amp just exposed it...and it gets blamed....and yes...it was a tube amp.
 
Ultimately it comes down to TWO things with the last one being the MOST important in this hobby.
 
1) Your personal experience in all things audio
 
2) Your personal taste
 
The first one will allow to distinguish between products...that's how I know when something sounds "right". That's also how I know when the source material is being accurately and realistically reproduced through the system. EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE.
 
The second one is what ultimately matters. Who cares if you like crap sound? 98% of people do too!! If it makes you happy, then who cares?!?! There are tons of products that are KNOWN to be great and others that are KNOWN to be utter crap. If you enjoy the utter crap, then good for you! It's ultimately YOUR money, YOUR choice, and YOUR happiness. Enjoy YOUR happiness!!!
 
 
NOTE: Anyone have trouble using HF and a Galaxy S3? This took me more than 30 min to write!! Something is wrong here...SteveHoffman forum works awesome but this is crap.

 

[sonitus mirus]

I just don't trust my ears, and you trust yours.  That's it.  Sorry you took my comment as being offensive or some kind of attack.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
Take a look at Project Sunrise II Amps. They perform far above their price point and sound amazing, IMO. There are many low cost tubes ranging from $25 to $50 that sound great in this amp. PM me if you want some recommendations and go HERE for detailed Project Sunrise II tube rolling posts. Pair the Project Sunrise II Amp with an ODAC or Modi for an excellent low cost combo for around $350.

+1 still one of the most underrated 'round these parts.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I just don't trust my ears, and you trust yours.  That's it.  Sorry you took my comment as being offensive or some kind of attack.

LOL!
 
FYI...I trust my ears only 50% of the time - and I think I hear rather well. I also use a lot of tools that help me "augment" my hearing abilities. I am not special in any way whatsoever. With some dedication, anybody can do what I do.
 
Soooo No...no offense taken.
 
It's just that a lot of people here take such blanket statements to heart and will dismiss quality products as a result. Just providing a counter-point to avoid that kind of mentality/thinking.

 

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

 
The most transparent amps I've ever heard in my life have been tube amps (in speaker systems).  While ultimate transparency isn't really my ultimate goal, it's quite possible to achieve it with tube amps.  That being said, I don't for one minute believe that it's easier for the consumer to get good transparency with tube amps.

 
Tubes are a lifestyle decision.  Gotta love 'em, but if you go down that path, forever will it control your destiny...  
 

 
I think that there is no such thing as a totally "straight wire with gain."  We wish there were, but every amp interacts with every headphone differently due to the source impedance, the load impedance, the cable, and the unique signature of the amp.  Solid state can vary as much as tubes, but unless it's rolling op amps, it is impossible to change if you're not happy.  
 
Plus every headphone reacts with every ear/brain interface differently.  So there is some combination that will generally work best for you and give you either what you perceive as "most neutral" or give you a specific color you find most natural or pleasing, and that may or not feel "neutral" to you.
 
I use tube and SS gear.  It's kind of a mood thing, I've never found that any one piece of gear is always best, and sometimes it's music genre dependent, which is why I now have seven amps, I guess.  
 
Welcome to headphone hell.  I know there is a desk under the equipment somewhere...
 

 

[PanamaHat]

Quote:

 
Take a look at Project Sunrise II Amps. They perform far above their price point and sound amazing, IMO. There are many low cost tubes ranging from $25 to $50 that sound great in this amp. PM me if you want some recommendations and go HERE for detailed Project Sunrise II tube rolling posts. Pair the Project Sunrise II Amp with an ODAC or Modi for an excellent low cost combo for around $350.

+1 still one of the most underrated 'round these parts.
 

+2 The Sunrise mkii with TJ Fullmusic tube and Odac is actually my set up. I had a few back and forth emails with the designer of the amp, Jeremy, and he said that a majority of people are pairing this amp with the t50rp's and that they're a great match. I use mine with the dt770 atm, but I think I'll be upgrading to MD's soon 

 

[LFF]

Quote:

 
Tubes are a lifestyle decision.  Gotta love 'em, but if you go down that path, forever will it control your destiny...  
 

 
I think that there is no such thing as a totally "straight wire with gain."  We wish there were, but every amp interacts with every headphone differently due to the source impedance, the load impedance, the cable, and the unique signature of the amp.  Solid state can vary as much as tubes, but unless it's rolling op amps, it is impossible to change if you're not happy.  
 
Plus every headphone reacts with every ear/brain interface differently.  So there is some combination that will generally work best for you and give you either what you perceive as "most neutral" or give you a specific color you find most natural or pleasing, and that may or not feel "neutral" to you.
 
I use tube and SS gear.  It's kind of a mood thing, I've never found that any one piece of gear is always best, and sometimes it's music genre dependent, which is why I now have seven amps, I guess.  
 
Welcome to headphone hell.  I know there is a desk under the equipment somewhere...
 

 
Next time we see each at a meet, stop by my table.

Be happy to show you it's possible.
 
I'd also recommend two or three other systems of people I know to show you it's possible.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I use SS amps becauyse I can't be arsed to worry about tube life, tube rolling, etc. Set it, and forget it. That's the SS way.

Most SS amps are pretty transparent enough for me, so I let the headphone do the coloring.

I had the Lyr, and I wasn't a fan with two sets of tubes, and didn't care to go further from that. I'm sure I would have found a good match, but I honestly couldn't be bothered with it. I'm happier with SS amps.

 

[vaed]

Quote:

 
Take a look at Project Sunrise II Amps. They perform far above their price point and sound amazing, IMO. There are many low cost tubes ranging from $25 to $50 that sound great in this amp. PM me if you want some recommendations and go HERE for detailed Project Sunrise II tube rolling posts. Pair the Project Sunrise II Amp with an ODAC or Modi for an excellent low cost combo for around $350.

Thanks for the offer, BMF! Nice of you to stop by. 

 However, as I said, I'm content with my current setup (Asgard 2/Bifrost), but I had no idea about Project Sunrise 2; I'd be interested in how it compares to the Lyr. Later on in the game, I'll be happy to indulge your reccommendations. I don't think my dad would be overly pleased with replacing his gifted Asgard 2 so soon. 

 
But to stay on topic and satiate my curiosity at least, has anyone heard Project Sunrise II on the Mad Dogs/other Orthos?

 

[ssrock64]

I generally stay solid state, but not because of sound signature. Much like Mad Lust Envy, it's simply out of convenience of maintenance.
 
Personally, I usually buy an amp specifically for its sound signature (not its pure-gain neutrality), but I keep some largely flat stuff around for testing purposes.

 

[MattTCG]

As it's been said here already, I think that it comes down to personal preference most of the time. What is bright to me may not be bright to you...and so on and so forth. One thing that has worked well for me is to forgo the constant switching and a/b sessions. I'll like to get a new hp or piece of gear and listen to it exclusively for weeks...sometimes longer, not changing anything else in the chain. When I feel like I know that sound signature really well based on the setup...change one thing and listen for the difference. That's when I can hear and appreciate the subtle changes. 

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

Thanks for the offer, BMF! Nice of you to stop by. 

 However, as I said, I'm content with my current setup (Asgard 2/Bifrost), but I had no idea about Project Sunrise 2; I'd be interested in how it compares to the Lyr. Later on in the game, I'll be happy to indulge your reccommendations. I don't think my dad would be overly pleased with replacing his gifted Asgard 2 so soon. 

 
But to stay on topic and satiate my curiosity at least, has anyone heard Project Sunrise II on the Mad Dogs/other Orthos?

Yup. think Lyr but less muscle. I found Lyr to offer better detail retrieval, staging, more balance, better bottom end,
and more responsive to tube rolling. However the PS is a serious value and you can get some great sound within tube rolling
without having to really empty the pockets. This is where Lyr is a poorer value to me, it takes much sunken into it
to really kick it up a notch.
 
TBH, I don't think the MD really benefits more from a whole lot. Meaning, I generally find it sounds good out of a lot of amps,
similar to the amp person LCD-2. 

 

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

 
Next time we see each at a meet, stop by my table.

Be happy to show you it's possible.
 
I'd also recommend two or three other systems of people I know to show you it's possible.

You are welcome to come by my table and hear a linear system, as well.  My point was it is the SYSTEM that can be made linear. An amp can be "straight wire with gain" but it's never perfect and it does interact with the cables and phone. I probably blathered too much to make the point concise.
 
Anyhow, that's a better topic for sound science, I think...