[bassophile]

Compared to the Audio Technica M50 - this is genuinely what it sounds like when quickly A/B'ing them.
 
There is NO rumble on the HD650 and as a result it feels like you're missing the lowest notes on the recording...
 
Does anyone have similar experiences with these 2 headphones?

 

[Digital-Pride]

The amount and quality of the HD650's bass is quite amplifier dependant, as it requires more voltage to get optimal sound quality than what is needed for the M50.  What are connecting the HD650 and M50 to by the way?

 

[bassophile]

haha, oh jeez, another 'amp' guy?
 
I'm using a Fiio E9, but I've heard my HD650 with a Lehmann Black Linear and a Fiio E5. The Fiio E5 couldn't push it hard enough, but the Lehmann sounded exactly the same as my E9 to me (if there is a difference I can't hear it) - which leads me to believe that as long as the headphones are being fed enough power, the headphones will sound the same for someone with my level of 'audiophile hearing sensitivity' anyway. Unless it's valves or something. And the E9 on high gain (as I use) should feed it enough power...
 
Even with the Lehmann the HD650 still felt like they were missing the very lowest octave as compared to my M50 - do you think there is something wrong with my particular HD650 - or is that simply how they sound?

 

[Arksun]

It could just be you prefer (or rather are used to) an overly bass heavy response?.
 
Many moons ago when I got into Sennheiser headphones for the first time and was used to cheapo headphones plugged into my cd player with MEGA BASS BOOST ON and all that crap, it took me a little while to really settle into the flatter sound, but now I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[elrod-tom]

I'm not sure I understand...
 
Lack of rumble =/= lack of extension.  It simply means that the headphones are not rumbling.
 
I suspect that the issue here is overemphasis of bass in the AT's.  I have the HD600's and I like them better than the HD650's because I feel like the bass in the HD650's is overemphasized and unnatural.
 
It's also true that the HD650 is a LOT more difficult to drive correctly...oh yeah, another "amp guy". 

 

[LugBug1]

The 650's are not a bass heavy phone, they offer a more natural response. There is a slight lift in the lower mids but rolls of very slightly after that, like most neutral phones. The m50's on the other hand, have a more emphasized bass response, thats why they are popular with bassheads looking to get into hifi, a good way to start appreciating the other frequencies while still having that oomph at the bottom! Especially the older models. 
 
After spending years comparing other phones to my 650's I think that any more bass on them would sound false. There is already a slight mid bass humb that shouldn't be there.   

 

[bassophile]

What I mean by lack of rumble is not lack of extension because with the HD650 when there is sub bass on its own you can hear it. It's faint but it's there and in about the same quantity as a Beyer DT880.
 
But when the sub bass is meant to be underpinning the music and is mixed in with other frequencies it is drowned out and you can't hear the sub-bass anymore whereas with the M50 it is still audible as a sort of low-end rumble which anchors the music. This is very satisfying and you feel that in comparison, music is 'anchor-less' with the HD650.
 
Does that description sound like my HD650 has a production fault?

 

[Digital-Pride]

No, what you're hearing is correct.  It's difficult for open-back headphones to muster the same kind of slam/pressure/punch that many closed headphones easily attain, as there are very few open headphones that can be described as truely bass heavy.

 

[bassophile]

Quote:

No, what you're hearing is correct.  It's difficult for open-back headphones to muster the same kind of slam/pressure/punch that many closed headphones easily attain, as there are very few open headphones that can be described as truely bass heavy.

 
So it's NORMAL to feel like the whole very bottom register of sound is sort of cut off and notice a somewhat anaemic bass response when switching from the M50 to the HD650?
 
I really wouldn't have thought this considering how everyone complains about the HD650 being too colored by having enhanced bass. What are they comparing it to - an ER4P!?

 

[jerg]

Quote:

No, what you're hearing is correct.  It's difficult for open-back headphones to muster the same kind of slam/pressure/punch that many closed headphones easily attain, as there are very few open headphones that can be described as truely bass heavy.

Actually, the "punch" of bass tends to be prominently mid-bass. The lower-end of the bass range frequencies don't quite contribute to that, all they do is make bassy sounds (instruments, voices) sound fuller and more engaging, or 'anchored' as OP would call it.

 

[TMRaven]

Have you ever considered the songs you use don't have prominent sub-bass in them? Yes, as a closed headphone the m50s do extend lower than most and do it well, but not every song is going to give you theater like rumble-- even most songs that are supposed to be bass heavy. It could be that the hd650 are producing the song more naturally as a headphone. Try James Blake limit to your love and see how hd650 handles the lowest of the lows when they're emphasized in the song itself. No YouTube either.

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Have you ever considered the songs you use don't have prominent sub-bass in them? Yes, as a closed headphone the m50s do extend lower than most and do it well, but not every song is going to give you theater like rumble-- even most songs that are supposed to be bass heavy. It could be that the hd650 are producing the song more naturally as a headphone. Try James Blake limit to your love and see how hd650 handles the lowest of the lows when they're emphasized in the song itself. No YouTube either.

 
Props to you TM, I was about to mention the subterranean bass rumble I hear in albums like James Blake's self titled.
 
Not sure about the OP's chain but there's great bass extension and presence through my setup (solid state and tube). It's well defined without taking focus away from other frequencies and anchors the music with authority.
 
I've owned the M50, and to even place it in the same tier as the HD650 (even when discussing just one aspect of its sound) makes me wonder if components upstream are really doing the Sennheiser justice.
 
Yep, another source files/dac/amp/cables guy here.

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

Actually, the "punch" of bass tends to be prominently mid-bass. The lower-end of the bass range frequencies don't quite contribute to that, all they do is make bassy sounds (instruments, voices) sound fuller and more engaging, or 'anchored' as OP would call it.

Mid-bass gives punch. Sub-bass gives rumble if properly reproduced.
 
Open headphones will never be the same as closed headphones in bass reproduction. Some get close such as orthodynamics, but generally open headphones lack decent sub-bass reproduction.
 

 

[ACDOAN]

Quote:

I'm not sure I understand...
 
Lack of rumble =/= lack of extension.  It simply means that the headphones are not rumbling.
 
I suspect that the issue here is overemphasis of bass in the AT's.  I have the HD600's and I like them better than the HD650's because I feel like the bass in the HD650's is overemphasized and unnatural.
 
It's also true that the HD650 is a LOT more difficult to drive correctly...oh yeah, another "amp guy". 

Oh, yeah. Those endless debate amp is amp !
 
I guess a Mark Levinson or Krell amp will sound the same as Carver or Nad amp. 

 I gave up these kind of debate so many moons ago.    
 

 

[knubbe]

650s probably aren't the best phones for synthesized bass. Closed phones will give you more sub-bass, and speakers would be even better.