[Slater]

The black metal part of the plug of the 6-core TRN cable can be screwed-off by turning it counter-clockwise. Do you (Slater) remember that I've asked here some time ago about the physical function of a 6-core? You've explained it with double-grounds for both sides, it was wishful thinking so it seems... Did you took a look at the other end of the braided cores (inside the Y-splitter). Would be interesting if only the connections to the 3.5mm plug are missing or the other side isn't connected too.

I did not do destructive physical dissection of the 6-core cable, only the 8-core cable.

However, given the fact that both myself and TRN have determined that there is an issue with the 6-core cables (with wires not being connected), I figured there was no need to physically tear it down. I can if people want me to though.

 

[Slater]

@Slater when cutting the cable, did you also measure the other end of your 6 and 8 core cables?
My question is, is this just incomplete soldering with the 3.5mm plug, or are the "fake" cores not in use at all? In other words, are at least the two pin connectors connected properly?
Thanks for your effort

Oh, I see. You're basically asking if it's possible to just cut off the 3.5mm plug, resolder on a new one, and have all wires be connected, right?

 

[KopiOkaya]

You guys know how health supplement companies work? Brands like GNC doesn't manufacture supplement at their own facility. There are contract manufacturers that produce supplements for GNC in accordance to their formula and chemistry. Upon delivery, GNC submits their products to independent testing labs to certify their potency and safety (at a cost).

Similarly, companies like KZ and TRN do not manufacture earphones themselves. Both companies do their own R&D, as well as sales and marketing. They have contract manufacturers producing earphones in accordance to their designs and specifications.

Whenever there is a problem, they will have to trace back to the factory that produced that particular product. This usually take a few hours because these factories make hundreds of thousands of IEMs for several brands. They don't have a physical record of who makes what. Workers come and go. Yesterday's Miss X maybe be replaced by Miss Y. And Miss X no longer work with that company. Miss X may have screwed up thousands of units without anybody's knowing and when discovered, it is difficult to back track to her. This is EXACTLY what happened to V30 earlier this year.

 

[killaHz]

You guys know how supplement companies work? Brands like GNC doesn't manufacture supplement at their own facility. They have contract manufacturers that produce supplements for GNC's in accordance to their formula and chemistry. Upon delivery, GNC submits their products to independent testing labs to certify their products safety (at a cost).

Similarly, companies like KZ and TRN do not manufacture earphones themselves. Both are doing their own R&D as well as sales and marketing. They have contact manufacturers producing earphones for them.

Whenever there is a problem, they will have to trace back to the factory that produced that particular product. This usually take a few hours because these factories manufacture hundreds of thousand of IEMs for several brands. They don't have a physical record of who makes what. Workers come and go. Yesterday's Miss X maybe be replaced by Miss Y. And Miss X no longer work with that company. Miss X may have screwed up thousands of units without anybody's knowing and when discovered, it is difficult to trace back to her.

The nature of the problem here, though, isn't careless soldering. It's a decision to make a cable that "works" while making as few solder joins as possible—I guess it COULD be a renegade worker or two deliberately making that decision, but it's not just negligence. You have to be paying attention to what you're doing, which makes it fraud. The only question is who's defrauding whom.

 

[Slater]

You guys know how supplement companies work? Brands like GNC doesn't manufacture supplement at their own facility. They have contract manufacturers that produce supplements for GNC's in accordance to their formula and chemistry. Upon delivery, GNC submits their products to independent testing labs to certify their potency and safety (at a cost).

Similarly, companies like KZ and TRN do not manufacture earphones themselves. Both are doing their own R&D as well as sales and marketing. They have contact manufacturers producing earphones for them.

Whenever there is a problem, they will have to trace back to the factory that produced that particular product. This usually take a few hours because these factories manufacture hundreds of thousand of IEMs for several brands. They don't have a physical record of who makes what. Workers come and go. Yesterday's Miss X maybe be replaced by Miss Y. And Miss X no longer work with that company. Miss X may have screwed up thousands of units without anybody's knowing and when discovered, it is difficult to trace back to her.

Correct. It's like trying to juggle a bunch of spinning plates in the air.

 

[Antenne]

Oh, I see. You're basically asking if it's possible to just cut off the 3.5mm plug, resolder on a new one, and have all wires be connected, right?

That was my consideration too. If the rest of the cable would be ok, a new plug could solve the problem.

 

[KopiOkaya]

The nature of the problem here, though, isn't careless soldering. It's a decision to make a cable that "works" while making as few solder joins as possible—I guess it COULD be a renegade worker or two deliberately making that decision, but it's not just negligence. You have to be paying attention to what you're doing, which makes it fraud. The only question is who's defrauding whom.

Miss Z was lazy and just soldered those wires that work, ignored those that were redundant. Many Chinese workers are NOT PROPERLY trained. In fact most are train at the job, while assembling your US$5,999 Mac Pro (let's say).

 

[StSe]

Oh, I see. You're basically asking if it's possible to just cut off the 3.5mm plug, resolder on a new one, and have all wires be connected, right?

Exactly, that was my thought. If it is just a QC issue, that might be the case.
If the fake cores are not connected at all it's an indicator that the thick cables are just used for optical reasons (eye candy).

 

[killaHz]

Miss Z was lazy and just soldered those wires that work and ignored those that are redundant.

But Z is hardly saving any time at all by doing that.

 

[KopiOkaya]

But Z is hardly saving any time at all by doing that.

Oh yes... She will save a lot of time when you multiply the minutes she saved by 1,000.

 

[hakuzen]

Ok, so you guys aren’t gonna like this.

I just got done dissecting a TRN 8-core bi-color upgrade cable:



Core #1, silver wire, L+
Core #2, silver wire, R+
Core #3, silver wire, FAKE
Core #4, silver wire, FAKE
Core #5, gold wire, shared gnd
Core #6, gold wire, shared gnd
Core #7, gold wire, shared gnd
Core #8, gold wire, FAKE

This totally explains why the gnd terminal always had a way lower resistance than the R/L terminals on the TRN 8-core cables. @hakuzen can back me up on that.

So now we have yet MORE TRN ‘upgrade’ cables that have wires connected to absolutely nothing.

Folks, this is not an accident. This is not a QC fluke. Obviously this is intentional!

I am not happy at all.

I am going to expand my testing to include some KZ upgrade cables.

Unfortunately, I don’t own any of the KZ 8-core copper/silver bi-color cables, only the flat braided ones. So I’ll have to order some of the KZ bi-color cables to dissect and test. I will be testing a KZ flat-braided cable though.

We need to figure out what upgrade cables we can trust, and which ones we can’t trust. This is total BS.

thank you so much, master!!
i got puzzled when measuring resistance of these trn 8 cores cables (measured 4), because couldn't find a logic pattern. i should have looked into one jack then. thank you very much for destroying another cable for the team!!

these were the measurements i got:
black and silver..423..219..289..150 (balanced jack)
black and silver:.414..216..244..223 (balanced jack)
gold and silver:...429..289..265..137 (balanced jack)
gold and silver:...454..219..135..267 (single end)
considerably uneven. i still can't explain each case, though. maths don't match.

and this is what i wrote about it, at last.
"056. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (various colors,cheapBal furt).
trn 8 cores cable.
structure: 0.05mm*25(30awg)*8c, equivalent to 27AWG per signal. "6N monocrystalline occ copper, plated with 85 microns of extruded silver, kevlar fiber reinforced" (judging by the price, it could be alloy plated ofc copper). PE sleeve.
decent cable. the wire looks great, the plugs and splitter look cheap (black color hides this better). available in 0.75mm, 0.78mm, mmcx, and 3.5mm, 2.5mm (balanced),
it would be great if they right soldered the cores; only 1 core for some signals, 3 cores for others now. maybe the issue is due to small room or low quality of the jack.
you won't notice the difference between left and right, in volume (<0.2dB imbalance), but i don't like this uneven measures, it spoils the purpose of using a decent wire."


this was the only case i noticed very strange measurements. the other cables with issues are bold marked in my lists of measurements; most are due to QC issue in a single unit.
in the case of old KZ mixed cable, the differences are justified by different wires with very different resistance (the problem was that you can't know which type of wires are used for L and R, and which for grounds; it looks random).

found issues with some jcally cables, which use similar jack than these trn 8 cores, cheap furutech styled. in the case of 4 cores jcally cable (blue, balanced), the issue might be due to some strands in the core not being soldered. in 8 cores cable (black, single end), left signal seems to miss one core (it's the deepest and smallest contact in the jack), but i only got one of these, so it could be a QC issue. you can check it (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985620).

 

[BadReligionPunk]

So this was only acknowledged by TRN after Slater had released his findings or had they made this public before hand?

 

[StSe]

I'm owning one of the 6 core cables and one is on the way.
I have always been a bit suspicious with the 6 cores from beginning, because no even distribution of cores is possible here.
Then tried to believe the theory of @Slater that there might be two cores each for R and L and one for ground.
I'm now starting to look at it as a nice 4 core cable, considering the price of less than 5 €.

 

[hakuzen]

the only way to explain the measurements of my 4 units of 8 cores trn is this:

advertised structure is: 0.08mm*25(26awg)*8c [2c/signal:.~23AWG], but it looks more of 0.07mm*25(27.2awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG], given the resistance values (curiously, jcally black 8 cores seems to have same structure).

besides of some cores not connected at all, some strands of each core could be destroyed during the soldering (they are thin strands, much heat or pressure can break them).

then:
black and silver..423..219..289..150 (balanced jack)..L+: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1.4 cores, aprox.; L-: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered; R-: almost 2 cores
black and silver:.414..216..244..223 (balanced jack)..L+: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1.4 cores, aprox.; L-: 1.2 cores, aprox; R-: 1.35 cores, aprox.
gold and silver:...429..289..265..137 (balanced jack)..L+ 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered; R-: 2 cores.
gold and silver:...454..219..135..267 (single end).......L: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R: 1.4 cores, aprox.; GndL: 2 cores; GndR: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered

anyway, very poor solder work

edit: i'm going to update the info in the list, to reflect last @Slater findings

 

[maxxevv]

the only way to explain the measurements of my 4 units of 8 cores trn is this:

advertised structure is: 0.08mm*25(26awg)*8c [2c/signal:.~23AWG], but it looks more of 0.07mm*25(27.2awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG], given the resistance values (curiously, jcally black 8 cores seems to have same structure).

besides of some cores not connected at all, some strands of each core could be destroyed during the soldering (they are thin strands, much heat or pressure can break them).

then:
black and silver..423..219..289..150 (balanced jack)..L+: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1.4 cores, aprox.; L-: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered; R-: almost 2 cores
black and silver:.414..216..244..223 (balanced jack)..L+: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1.4 cores, aprox.; L-: 1.2 cores, aprox; R-: 1.35 cores, aprox.
gold and silver:...429..289..265..137 (balanced jack)..L+ 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R+: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered; R-: 2 cores.
gold and silver:...454..219..135..267 (single end).......L: 1 core missed, and only a few strands of 1 core soldered; R: 1.4 cores, aprox.; GndL: 2 cores; GndR: 1 core missed, almost 1 full core soldered

anyway, very poor solder work

I measured my 1st and only batch of TRN 8-core black and silver cables, as far as I recall, of the 3 I measured, all on balanced 2.5mm TRRS output, they were very similar to your second one.