[ssriram2791]

Thank you all.

Next and last question: anyone here knows first hand how the Cayin RU6 DAC/Amp dongle *in NOS* (important) compares to the PAW6000?

 

[ssriram2791]

Thank you all.

Next and last question: anyone here knows first hand how the Cayin RU6 DAC/Amp dongle *in NOS* (important) compares to the PAW6000?

Whatever I said about R01 applies to RU6 (NOS Mode), but with more treble energy. All depends on synergy with IEMs. R01 is better for moderately sensitive open back headphones. RU6 has anemic performance on bass with similar kind of headphones. If you buy RU6, you should plan for IEM usage, not headphones.

I am not going to proclaim RU6 is better than PAW6000. PAW 6000 has exceptional lineout and challenges mid-range DAPs due to its ability to deliver clear and transparent sound for both IEMs and moderately sensitive headphones (similar to R01 in terms of driving capability) .

I see you are looking at bang for the buck. But there is lot of differences in the features you get between dongle and DAP.

 

[NewEve]

Whatever I said about R01 applies to RU6 (NOS Mode), but with more treble energy. All depends on synergy with IEMs. R01 is better for moderately sensitive open back headphones. RU6 has anemic performance on bass with similar kind of headphones. If you buy RU6, you should plan for IEM usage, not headphones.

I am not going to proclaim RU6 is better than PAW6000. PAW 6000 has exceptional lineout and challenges mid-range DAPs due to its ability to deliver clear and transparent sound for both IEMs and moderately sensitive headphones (similar to R01 in terms of driving capability) .

I see you are looking at bang for the buck. But there is lot of differences in the features you get between dongle and DAP.

Here’s the background (from the watercooler):

I also returned — completely unopened — the Cayin N6ii | R01 I received today.

I figured that, since I didn't click with the N6ii as a device previously, the R01 sound increment compared to the RU6 could only disappoint me for a USD1419 price difference here in Switzerland… This was some serious audiophile Jedi master sh!t, I know…

I tried the RU6 with my RS2e SE and LCD-2 Classic BAL yesterday and didn’t find the low-end anemic at all compared to the extras power I have with the M11 Plus LTD for example (but they aren’t the toughest to drive). I actually prefer the RU6 in NOS with everything so far.

So next step is that I’ll be able to demo the PAW 6000 (which I couldn’t for the R01) and if I like it I’ll keep it.

Otherwise I’ll likely go for the RS6 — despite its weight:size ratio.

Thanks again for your time, much appreciated.

 

[dsrk]

You guys are not mentioning the most important feature of Lotoo, their DSP. It's one of the best in business.

I have been using Neutron, UAAP and other android apps for years but none can match the quality and impact of Cowon JetEffect or Lotoo PEQ.

 

[Louisiana]

... but none can match the quality and impact of Cowon JetEffect or Lotoo PEQ.

New PAW 6000 owner as of today - care to tell me more about it?
Wiki tells me that this is a separate player?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowon

 

[dsrk]

New PAW 6000 owner as of today - care to tell me more about it?
Wiki tells me that this is a separate player?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowon

Yes Cowon is another brand which is known for its DSP.

 

[RogerHuston]

Anyone here got the chance to compare Lotoo's PAW 6000 to FiiO’s M11 Plus LTD (not the M11 nor the M11 pro)?

I’m aware of the vastly different features both DAPs offer and I’m only interested in sound/tuning — thanks in advance

Based on your question and phrasing, the simple answer there isn't enough of a difference where you will care or even notice. You will get more variation by changing the tips of your IEM or Pads on a full-size headphone than you will trying to compare the DAC and amplification stages of the DAPs at this price point. Without knowing the level of headphones or IEMs you are using; it is difficult to accurately assess if you notice a difference. For example, on my MEST mk2 customs, I was told that I might notice an ever so slight darker background comparing the 6k to the Gold Touch and perhaps, slightly warmer. Was that worth $1200, not for me. My point is that today there is a lot of good equipment on the market. In general, today, most new releases of equipment sounds really good. Yes, there will be people who will A/B them and present the subtle differences as chasms, but for this price point, even experienced people listing on one of them one day, and the other a couple of days later wouldn't be able to tell you which was which.

Instead, I would suggest focusing on the features you want as the differences you'll notice are greater. The M11 is an Android based system and is quite different from the PAW 6k which was specifically designed to NOT be one of those Android systems. The differences in sound and tuning will be much greater in what you choose to plug into it.

 

[RTodd]

Based on your question and phrasing, the simple answer there isn't enough of a difference where you will care or even notice. You will get more variation by changing the tips of your IEM or Pads on a full-size headphone than you will trying to compare the DAC and amplification stages of the DAPs at this price point. Without knowing the level of headphones or IEMs you are using; it is difficult to accurately assess if you notice a difference. For example, on my MEST mk2 customs, I was told that I might notice an ever so slight darker background comparing the 6k to the Gold Touch and perhaps, slightly warmer. Was that worth $1200, not for me. My point is that today there is a lot of good equipment on the market. In general, today, most new releases of equipment sounds really good. Yes, there will be people who will A/B them and present the subtle differences as chasms, but for this price point, even experienced people listing on one of them one day, and the other a couple of days later wouldn't be able to tell you which was which.

Instead, I would suggest focusing on the features you want as the differences you'll notice are greater. The M11 is an Android based system and is quite different from the PAW 6k which was specifically designed to NOT be one of those Android systems. The differences in sound and tuning will be much greater in what you choose to plug into it.

I did the comparison PAW6K to LPGT with ten test tracks I could clearly hear the difference on two of them. The tracks that had the differences were ones with either a lot of instruments all playing different parts at the same time or with micro dynamic changes. It was slight but I did hear it.

If you did not AB you would never know you were missing anything.

I also did the same AB at the time with the L&P P6 and got the same result, I think it is down to the more robust amplification in the higher priced units. Since adding an amplifier to the chain the C9 in my case just about removed any difference.

Is it worth the extra money not really, as you are at 100% 80% of the time and 95% 20% of the time based on my thinking and hearing.

If you can, let your ears decide with your favorite test tracks.

 

[Stu Paddasso]

Based on your question and phrasing, the simple answer there isn't enough of a difference where you will care or even notice. You will get more variation by changing the tips of your IEM or Pads on a full-size headphone than you will trying to compare the DAC and amplification stages of the DAPs at this price point. Without knowing the level of headphones or IEMs you are using; it is difficult to accurately assess if you notice a difference. For example, on my MEST mk2 customs, I was told that I might notice an ever so slight darker background comparing the 6k to the Gold Touch and perhaps, slightly warmer. Was that worth $1200, not for me. My point is that today there is a lot of good equipment on the market. In general, today, most new releases of equipment sounds really good. Yes, there will be people who will A/B them and present the subtle differences as chasms, but for this price point, even experienced people listing on one of them one day, and the other a couple of days later wouldn't be able to tell you which was which.

Instead, I would suggest focusing on the features you want as the differences you'll notice are greater. The M11 is an Android based system and is quite different from the PAW 6k which was specifically designed to NOT be one of those Android systems. The differences in sound and tuning will be much greater in what you choose to plug into it.

I have 5 different DAPs and they all sound different for each other. So you owe it to yourself to shop around to find the best sound for you! Most of us can't test first because there are no shops in our area that's why we use these forms to help figure it out by using other people's experiences.

 

[NewEve]

Based on your question and phrasing, the simple answer there isn't enough of a difference where you will care or even notice. You will get more variation by changing the tips of your IEM or Pads on a full-size headphone than you will trying to compare the DAC and amplification stages of the DAPs at this price point. Without knowing the level of headphones or IEMs you are using; it is difficult to accurately assess if you notice a difference. For example, on my MEST mk2 customs, I was told that I might notice an ever so slight darker background comparing the 6k to the Gold Touch and perhaps, slightly warmer. Was that worth $1200, not for me. My point is that today there is a lot of good equipment on the market. In general, today, most new releases of equipment sounds really good. Yes, there will be people who will A/B them and present the subtle differences as chasms, but for this price point, even experienced people listing on one of them one day, and the other a couple of days later wouldn't be able to tell you which was which.

Instead, I would suggest focusing on the features you want as the differences you'll notice are greater. The M11 is an Android based system and is quite different from the PAW 6k which was specifically designed to NOT be one of those Android systems. The differences in sound and tuning will be much greater in what you choose to plug into it.

I did the comparison PAW6K to LPGT with ten test tracks I could clearly hear the difference on two of them. The tracks that had the differences were ones with either a lot of instruments all playing different parts at the same time or with micro dynamic changes. It was slight but I did hear it.

If you did not AB you would never know you were missing anything.

I also did the same AB at the time with the L&P P6 and got the same result, I think it is down to the more robust amplification in the higher priced units. Since adding an amplifier to the chain the C9 in my case just about removed any difference.

Is it worth the extra money not really, as you are at 100% 80% of the time and 95% 20% of the time based on my thinking and hearing.

If you can, let your ears decide with your favorite test tracks.

I have 5 different DAPs and they all sound different for each other. So you owe it to yourself to shop around to find the best sound for you! Most of us can't test first because there are no shops in our area that's why we use these forms to help figure it out by using other people's experiences.

PAW6000 ordered. I'll share impressions once I get it.

 

[RogerHuston]

I have 5 different DAPs and they all sound different for each other. So you owe it to yourself to shop around to find the best sound for you! Most of us can't test first because there are no shops in our area that's why we use these forms to help figure it out by using other people's experiences.

I've only tried a dozen or so and in the $1k range, they tend to sound more alike to me than different, and that difference also depends on personal experience and what headphone or IEM you are using to differentiate. Moondrop Kato vs UM Fusang for example show different results.

I agree, the forums are a good place to get useful information, I was simply trying to provide Eve who is relatively new, the information needed to make a buying decision. In my opinion, pretty much everything at the $1k level sounds good and while there will be some differences, the differences in what headphone or IEM she chooses will be a greater difference. Want more bass? Want more resolution? What a warmer signature? All of that can be done by changing headphones to a greater degree than changing DAPs.

Once someone reaches your level of expertise and you have your favorite headphones and IEM's changing DAPs can move the needle to a lesser degree left or right on sound signature a bit more to a preferred signature, that is pretty advanced stuff. And even at that level, I bet your preference of DAP is not solely based on sound signature alone and that the ease-of-use of the DAP for your use case. My point to Eve is both DAPs are good enough and that functionality should be the majority part of the buying decision. After all, if you don't like how the DAP functions, it will always be in your way of using it.

 

[RogerHuston]

I did the comparison PAW6K to LPGT with ten test tracks I could clearly hear the difference on two of them. The tracks that had the differences were ones with either a lot of instruments all playing different parts at the same time or with micro dynamic changes. It was slight but I did hear it.

If you did not AB you would never know you were missing anything.

I also did the same AB at the time with the L&P P6 and got the same result, I think it is down to the more robust amplification in the higher priced units. Since adding an amplifier to the chain the C9 in my case just about removed any difference.

Is it worth the extra money not really, as you are at 100% 80% of the time and 95% 20% of the time based on my thinking and hearing.

If you can, let your ears decide with your favorite test tracks.

Yes, I agree completely. There are differences, but the differences are small and it really depends on the quality of your headpones or IEMs as to how big they might be. I also believe that functionality should play the major role in your decision making. Does it fit your use case? Are you traveling and need a long battery? Do you need streaming? Are you using it at your desk? If a DAP is hard to use or doesn't meet the functionality needs, it doesn't matter how good it sounds, you won't want to use it.

 

[RogerHuston]

PAW6000 ordered. I'll share impressions once I get it.

While you can use it right away, it does take a little bit of time to get used to it and be able to dive down in the functionality. Also, when you do, please let people know what you are connecting to it. Knowing what music and headphones or IEMs you are using to make your assessments is extremely helpful. Product matching, more so with speakers is the primary battle, so knowing what you are using for your assessment will help everyone.

Enjoy!!

 

[jcdreamer]

PAW6000 ordered. I'll share impressions once I get it.

You're not going to regret it. I've largely abandoned my Sony 1Z since I acquired mine a few months ago. Enjoy your music.

 

[NewEve]

Eve who is relatively new

Are you sure about that ?

(Genuinely no offence taken btw.)

I also believe that functionality should play the major role in your decision making. Does it fit your use case? Are you traveling and need a long battery? Do you need streaming? Are you using it at your desk? If a DAP is hard to use or doesn't meet the functionality needs, it doesn't matter how good it sounds, you won't want to use it.

These are all very good points. I like where you're going as I can only agree.

In my reviews/write-ups, I usually provide an explanation behind my choices in an introduction.

In the case of the Lotoo PAW 6000, I just published a first part on my site which I think you'll relate to (see signature).

Knowing what music and headphones or IEMs you are using to make your assessments is extremely helpful. Product matching, more so with speakers is the primary battle, so knowing what you are using for your assessment will help everyone.

Again, I can only agree.

I have been pushing for this since my early days on Head-Fi and in most if not all of my write-up and reviews of DAPs, I even mention the IEM tips / headphone pads I used.

You can find a piece I wrote on a well-known IEM and another on synergy here where I touch upon some of the points you're making.