[cossix]

Amen to that haha, the 650 are super tight out of the box. I had to have them stretch on a tall cardboard box from a desk lamp for a week just so i could wear them for more than 15 minutes. I found it less risky than physically prying the earcups apart in one go.

 

[buke9]

Amen to that haha, the 650 are super tight out of the box. I had to have them stretch on a tall cardboard box from a desk lamp for a week just so i could wear them for more than 15 minutes. I found it less risky than physically prying the earcups apart in one go.

What you do is pull them all the way out and then bend only on the metal part of the band. You can definitely break them if you pull on the outside parts.

 

[banco-sg]

What you do is pull them all the way out and then bend only on the metal part of the band. You can definitely break them if you pull on the outside parts.

Tight clamp is one of the reason why i ditched my DT880, i just can't get used to it even after 4 good years and it's too bright after a while...

Another headphone with good soundstage that might be in the consideration is AKG-7xx.

 

[buke9]

It's been awhile since I've heard them but I remember I liked them but I do think they are a little bright too. I myself like a bit brighter headphone as I tend to listen out of warmer amps as in tubes. I would definitely look at the HE-400S though very comfy and not real bright.

 

[VirtualBoost]

650 isn't very good for gaming, the soundstage is a bit intimate. The 598 is much better for gaming and doesn't need any amp

Aha, I see. Perhaps these could be a better alternative?

The 650's like said above have very little of a soundstage but are a very good headphone. They do have a bit of clamp when you first get them but can be stretched out by bending the metal part of the headband. Another headphone I think would work for you is the HE-400S as it doesn't require a amp but does better with one and is comfy for hours of listening and sounds pretty dang good to boot. The sound signature is close to the 650's as it is a bit on the warmer side with decent bass but it does have much better soundstage. YMMV as always.

They look neat! Checking the impedance, it seems that Fiio E10k would be able to drive them fine. What is the difference between HE-400S and HE-400i? Is it a huge jump between these two?

Also, while on the topic of DAC/AMP, how much of a difference would I be able to hear if I say got the HE-400S and switched out the Fiio E10k for JDS Labs The Element? Would it be super noticeable? Because sometimes I found the sound coming from the E10k a bit lacking, perhaps a bit dull (don't know how to describe it really)? I know it's a budget DAC/AMP but still curious if there would be a noticeable difference.

 

[His Lorship]

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the HD37x on Massdrop is a good choice for gaming headset. It has very good soundstage for directional sound such as hearing footsteps through walls, etc. I use the Sennheiser PC 363d and it's great for games like counter-strike. I ordered the HD6xx also but won't have them till December, so can't give a firsthand comparison... Although as others have mentioned the soundstage is widely considered not the best choice for gaming.
After years of using different headsets (mostly plantronics through the years but a few others), the Sennheiser PC363d is superior to anything I've ever used for gaming. I like them so much I purchased a PC37x that just arrived at the door yesterday, which will be my backup pair. The good thing about the PC37x is they are super comfortable, great directional sound, and a excellent microphone. One of my favorite extras is the microphone "clicks" and mutes itself when you push it up by your ear - great feature if you are in a noisy room or if someone walks in and you need to mute quickly in a pinch. If you don't need the microphone the HD598 are reportedly very comparable. The difference between the PC37x and the PC373 is the PC373 comes with an in-line 7.1 device that most people say are gimmicky - myself included. The PC363D came with the dolby 7.1 dongle and I usually don't use it.

As for the DAC/Amp I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I'm leaning towards the Magni/Modi stack and the Chord Mojo for the HD6xx, and for my gaming headsets I'm thinking of either buying a newer motherboard with better onboard sound, or possibly using the Mojo or a sound card.

 

[banco-sg]

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the HD37x on Massdrop is a good choice for gaming headset. It has very good soundstage for directional sound such as hearing footsteps through walls, etc. I use the Sennheiser PC 363d and it's great for games like counter-strike. I ordered the HD6xx also but won't have them till December, so can't give a firsthand comparison... Although as others have mentioned the soundstage is widely considered not the best choice for gaming.
After years of using different headsets (mostly plantronics through the years but a few others), the Sennheiser PC363d is superior to anything I've ever used for gaming. I like them so much I purchased a PC37x that just arrived at the door yesterday, which will be my backup pair. The good thing about the PC37x is they are super comfortable, great directional sound, and a excellent microphone. One of my favorite extras is the microphone "clicks" and mutes itself when you push it up by your ear - great feature if you are in a noisy room or if someone walks in and you need to mute quickly in a pinch. If you don't need the microphone the HD598 are reportedly very comparable. The difference between the PC37x and the PC373 is the PC373 comes with an in-line 7.1 device that most people say are gimmicky - myself included. The PC363D came with the dolby 7.1 dongle and I usually don't use it.

As for the DAC/Amp I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I'm leaning towards the Magni/Modi stack and the Chord Mojo for the HD6xx, and for my gaming headsets I'm thinking of either buying a newer motherboard with better onboard sound, or possibly using the Mojo or a sound card.

How about a discreet sound card instead? It will save you some trouble from upgrading the mobo. I think there are many good gaming soundcard out there.

 

[VirtualBoost]

I was looking at this sound card as well that is soon coming out, looks promising: https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5

Might be something?

 

[His Lorship]

How about a discreet sound card instead? It will save you some trouble from upgrading the mobo. I think there are many good gaming soundcard out there.

Yes I'm highly considering a soundcard. That reminders me - the one "Con" I have with the Sennheiser PC363d is the bass is very subtle. It sounds good but it's certainly weak. This may not be entirely a bad thing - because if it was too heavy I think it would be very fatiguing during long gaming sessions.

What's the best sound card available? I would certainly consider a card that would last me through a couple builds when I upgrade just pop the card in my next computer..

I was thinking new motherboard because the new Gigabyte motherboards are boasting a Bur-Brown DAC that may be good, but I've seen very little feedback on that.

 

[squee116]

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the HD37x on Massdrop is a good choice for gaming headset. It has very good soundstage for directional sound such as hearing footsteps through walls, etc. I use the Sennheiser PC 363d and it's great for games like counter-strike. I ordered the HD6xx also but won't have them till December, so can't give a firsthand comparison... Although as others have mentioned the soundstage is widely considered not the best choice for gaming.
After years of using different headsets (mostly plantronics through the years but a few others), the Sennheiser PC363d is superior to anything I've ever used for gaming. I like them so much I purchased a PC37x that just arrived at the door yesterday, which will be my backup pair. The good thing about the PC37x is they are super comfortable, great directional sound, and a excellent microphone. One of my favorite extras is the microphone "clicks" and mutes itself when you push it up by your ear - great feature if you are in a noisy room or if someone walks in and you need to mute quickly in a pinch. If you don't need the microphone the HD598 are reportedly very comparable. The difference between the PC37x and the PC373 is the PC373 comes with an in-line 7.1 device that most people say are gimmicky - myself included. The PC363D came with the dolby 7.1 dongle and I usually don't use it.

As for the DAC/Amp I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I'm leaning towards the Magni/Modi stack and the Chord Mojo for the HD6xx, and for my gaming headsets I'm thinking of either buying a newer motherboard with better onboard sound, or possibly using the Mojo or a sound card.

If you plan on going the external DAC/AMP route, you can bypass your PC's audio processing by using digital audio out, like toslink or USB. You don't need a separate mobo, or soundcard. A schiit stack, fulla, or dragonfly isn't much more than an expensive motherboard (in some cases much less), and it's a lot easier to add to the chain than it is to remove your motherboard and all interrelated components and then reinstall everything.

 

[squee116]

I was looking at this sound card as well that is soon coming out, looks promising: https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5

Might be something?

If you plan on getting an external amp/dac down the road anyway, you'd be wasting your money on the sound card.
In regards to the Senn headsets, they're basically HD558 or HD598's with a mic stapled on. You'd be better off getting something like the HD558 or HD598 yourself, used if money is a concern, and getting a modmic or something like it. I think Massdrop has their own version of the modmic for about half the price.

 

[banco-sg]

Yes I'm highly considering a soundcard. That reminders me - the one "Con" I have with the Sennheiser PC363d is the bass is very subtle. It sounds good but it's certainly weak. This may not be entirely a bad thing - because if it was too heavy I think it would be very fatiguing during long gaming sessions.

What's the best sound card available? I would certainly consider a card that would last me through a couple builds when I upgrade just pop the card in my next computer..

I was thinking new motherboard because the new Gigabyte motherboards are boasting a Bur-Brown DAC that may be good, but I've seen very little feedback on that.

If you are looking for clear and less interference solution, you might want to skip onboard solution. They are just bad, and pure snake oil imho... The only solution is discreet soundcard or external Amp/DAC combo.

If you plan on going the external DAC/AMP route, you can bypass your PC's audio processing by using digital audio out, like toslink or USB. You don't need a separate mobo, or soundcard. A schiit stack, fulla, or dragonfly isn't much more than an expensive motherboard (in some cases much less), and it's a lot easier to add to the chain than it is to remove your motherboard and all interrelated components and then reinstall everything.

I am just wondering whether the external dac/amp can downsampling Dolby or DTS signal? Or there will be no sound?

 

[squee116]

If you are looking for clear and less interference solution, you might want to skip onboard solution. They are just bad, and pure snake oil imho... The only solution is discreet soundcard or external Amp/DAC combo.



I am just wondering whether the external dac/amp can downsampling Dolby or DTS signal? Or there will be no sound?

To be honest, I have no idea. I used Dolby with a MixAmp and PS4, and compared to just running straight audio to my V200/Bifrost, with no DTS or Dolby, I prefer the latter. A good headphone is better than Dolby gimmickry, at least in headphones. If you had actual separate speakers, each of which's output is audible to both ears, my opinion would change. But your left ear can only hear the left channel, and your right ear can only hear the right channel, so any sense of "surround" is digitally manufactured, and to my ears just results in needless reverb and distortion.

Additionally, I'd like to hear your sample size about onboard audio. I've gone through a dozen motherboards building new PCs over the last five years, and never had issues with audio unless the audio devices were powered by USB, the motherboard was faulty, or the headphones were so inefficient that I needed a more powerful amp. In particular, I've used Asrock, MSI, Gigabyte and Asus motherboards with no issue. ECS and other value brands is a different issue entirely.

 

[buke9]

Aha, I see. Perhaps these could be a better alternative?



They look neat! Checking the impedance, it seems that Fiio E10k would be able to drive them fine. What is the difference between HE-400S and HE-400i? Is it a huge jump between these two?

Also, while on the topic of DAC/AMP, how much of a difference would I be able to hear if I say got the HE-400S and switched out the Fiio E10k for JDS Labs The Element? Would it be super noticeable? Because sometimes I found the sound coming from the E10k a bit lacking, perhaps a bit dull (don't know how to describe it really)? I know it's a budget DAC/AMP but still curious if there would be a noticeable difference.

The difference between the i and S is very similar to the difference between the HD-650's and 600's . As the i's are more neutral and the S's are a bit warmer with the high end rolled off just a bit. They both have much better soundstage than the Senns. As for hearing a big difference from some gear to another that depends on your hearing acuity. Some people can hear minute difference in some things and others don't so I can't say yes for you. The first time I heard the Element it had a pair of ZMF Omni's hooked up to it and it was very good. It is a very good dac amp for the price.

 

[His Lorship]

If you plan on getting an external amp/dac down the road anyway, you'd be wasting your money on the sound card.
In regards to the Senn headsets, they're basically HD558 or HD598's with a mic stapled on. You'd be better off getting something like the HD558 or HD598 yourself, used if money is a concern, and getting a modmic or something like it. I think Massdrop has their own version of the modmic for about half the price.

Yes but... The HD598 SR are currently 169$ on amazon, before modmic. The PC37x are $119 with the built-in mic. The Sennheiser mic is much better than any other headset I've used, albeit not as good as a Yeti or similar dedicated 50$+ type... But I'd guess equal to if not superior to a modmic. I could be wrong.

At the end of the day, the 119$ is a pretty darn good deal for PC37x. The PC373 are usually 200$ + with the crappy 7.1 dongle in line. I paid 200$ for the PC363D and at the time they were selling for $300, so I felt it was a decent deal. Unboxing and using the PC363d opened a whole new world for me - even with the crappy 7.1 dongle for DAC.