Little Dot MK8SE / MK6 Super Mods (All verified mods are on first page)
Mar 14, 2018 at 2:48 PM Post #3,076 of 4,154
Thank you, I meant where the load line was in relation to the curves, my mistake.
Don't thank him for being a crab.
He should know your still learning.

I was not absolutely sure that same tubes by different manufacturers were identical in every respect
Yes and no..

They are not identical in every parameter,
& that's why we all have favorites og brand or year, in every type.

There supposed to be same specs & graphs,
but if you see one slightly different it would be interesting to post.
 
Mar 14, 2018 at 3:15 PM Post #3,077 of 4,154
Don't thank him for being a crab.
He should know your still learning.

Ha ha, trying to be polite lol.

Edit: I was only trying to get past 1000, don't care about this hifi at all!
 
Last edited:
Mar 14, 2018 at 5:57 PM Post #3,078 of 4,154
Just out of interest I thought I would see what Maxx's settings looked like, here they are in 2 shades of brown:

upload_2018-3-14_21-54-19.png


They look good, but it's all in the listening.

(I think your B+ is 150v so the light brown will be more accurate).
 
Last edited:
Mar 15, 2018 at 7:06 AM Post #3,079 of 4,154
My limited goals are to look again at the anode and cathode values that we changed in the driver bias mod. Maxx chose one set of values and Sonic chose another.

I see.

Because B+ is so low, none of the load lines are not so good. Luckily the swing needed is not that big. Always good to practise drawing load lines.

A gyrator load would allow for a flat load line, combined with CCS tail at desired anode current, even at 150V B+. Not sure about stability inside a gNFB loop, also probably wouldn't fit inside the chassis.

Re: CCS mod I will be following Sonic's design for the CCS closely because we have both made similar mods with similar values

Good idea.

Sorry, just preliminary attempts to elicit very general comment as to plate current values etc which I'm not sure about.

I would shoot for 1 to 1.3 mA of Ia in your scenario. Enough to get the tube really conducting, and to offer at least some drive to the following coupling cap.

I didn't know about the specific phraseology "ultralinear"

Here's a schematic:

ultralinear.jpg

So g2 (screen grid) is not connected to a DC supply (pentode mode), it's not connected to the anode (triode mode), but rather somewhere inbetween. UL requires a special tap on the OT primary, usually at 17% of the primary turns.

Curves are somewhere between triode and pentode (or beam tetrode) mode. Compare the different mode curves: http://www.audiomatica.com/tubes/6l6.htm

17% was more or less arbitrarily chosen as a nice point, there have been also different tap arrangements. The closer you move the tap to the anode side, the more the curves resemble triode mode, and the closer you move it to B+, the more the curves resemble pentode or beam tetrode mode.

In technical terms you are introducing a local feedback loop that has part of the primary in it. The point of this was to achieve some better THD performance of the triode mode while retaining some of the higher power output of the pentode mode.

It's still used in some bass guitar amplifiers and retro type PA amplifiers, but I wouldn't recommend UL for serious best results HIFI use. It still has lots of pentode mode odd harmonics present. (Adds 'bite' to bass guitar sound.)

I was not absolutely sure that same tubes by different manufacturers were identical in every respect.

Not in every respect, but for voltage and current purposes and load line purposes, yes, they are identical.

Or, as identical as any tubes of the same type, within one manufacturer. Remember these curves say AVERAGE for a reason. They were made as composites, typically taking readings from a hundred different tubes.

If the type was meant for home use, they might include tubes with +-20% specs in that average. If it was special quality for industry or military, maybe only +-10%.

There is bound to be great variance in anode resistance and sometimes even µ (though that is a bad sign for quality) among any tubes, within or between manufacturers.

Modern people think with modern standards. These were not the standards when tubes were developed and mass manufactured.

The reason tube rolling works in some circuits, is just that; there is a lot of variance. If the circuit is "balanced on a tipping point", small variance one way or another can change the behavior of the circuit. Smart design avoids this.

Anode resistance is the big one usually, it affects distortion behavior, but different capacitances can affect 'tone'. If your circuit can deal with the capacitances, all tubes "sound the same".

He should know your still learning.

Yes I know. The way you learn is that somebody points out the correct information when you use terms incorrectly. Leaving somebody in a state of mistake is not a favor to that person.

Don't thank him for being a crab.

My posts are written more or less like an engineer. Aside from clear joking, any emotional tone you infer is your own projection.

Do not use such language in the future to refer to me or my writing.
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 8:44 AM Post #3,080 of 4,154
Edit: I was only trying to get past 1000,

You did post allot of graphs lol


and to offer at least some drive to the following coupling cap
I agree as I have noticed the 6SL7 type and other higher gain (6C8G) was always Better sounding to me.


The way you learn is that somebody points out the correct information when you use terms incorrectly. Leaving somebody in a state of mistake is not a favor to that person.
Yes we have different ways.
I rather try explain first rather than afterwards.
You just now explained a day later.

Although it may give them time to think,
it also may negatively discourage if they don't have time or ability to figure it out as this remains a hobby to most so time is limited.

Anyways point taken on your egineering approach.

I will also make clear that I do appreciate all your posts regardless,
as well as all seasoned experienced members,
And shown that with likes to your older posts.
 
Last edited:
Mar 15, 2018 at 12:42 PM Post #3,081 of 4,154
My posts are written more or less like an engineer. Aside from clear joking, any emotional tone you infer is your own projection.

He was joking, we try not to be too serious on this thread!

Anyway no worries, I've made my intentions clear and thanks for that information, I'll study it later. I'm excited to try the CCS, but trying not to expect too much , so that I can seriously evaluate it later.

You did post allot of graphs lol

I meant 1000 posts!

Nobody congratulated me LOL.
 
Mar 16, 2018 at 3:44 AM Post #3,082 of 4,154
So i think the bias issue is fixed. He has 2 bad 330R resistors whose values would go up by about 25Ohms as the amp started to heat up.

Im still now too confident though, usually with the 6080's it seems fine on when the amp is upside down on my workbench, but once i put it back together and set it up properly the bias deviates. Ill finish and test it again tomorrow.

For not the bias's match even after leaving the amp running for about 20 mins.


If someone can do me a favor... Can you please the continuity between the R+ and L- terminals next to the pot ?
When I test that I get this really grainy beep. I'm starting to believe that the pot has been the cause this whole time for slightly channel imbalance.

Or if someone can tell how to bypass the pot all together..
I do have a 100k stereo pot with me if there is any way to use that to test things.
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018 at 1:28 PM Post #3,084 of 4,154
After changing cable , check connection no error, still same burning happened, have no idea what is wrong

Will you be able to post a well lit picture of where exactly the burning is happening?

@baronbeehive @Maxx134

Are these voltages normal from common ground to PSU side of Anode / Cathode resistors? (From Right , tube 4, to Left, tube 1)
75 - 75 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79
And Pin 1's to driver / output side cathode / anode resistors -
52 - 45 - 53/55 - 55 - 55 - 55 - 53-55 - 55
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018 at 1:34 PM Post #3,085 of 4,154
IMG_91370a.jpg
Will you be able to post a well lit picture of where exactly the burning is happening?
Always same place burning, this is Right side error, Left side has no problem, but I have checked every where no connection error, fuse no broken.
When turn on left side light on and after few minutes right side light on, straight burning happen.
Confusing about what has happened now. Can anyone tell me what is the exact amount of resistor there
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018 at 1:50 PM Post #3,086 of 4,154
Will you be able to post a well lit picture of where exactly the burning is happening?

@baronbeehive @Maxx134

Are these voltages normal from common ground to PSU side of Anode / Cathode resistors? (From Right , tube 4, to Left, tube 1)
75 - 75 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79
And driver / output side -
52 - 45 - 53/55 - 55 - 55 - 55 - 53-55 - 55
Tube light show normal while turn on and after burned tube still light up normal but the BOTH SIDE meter show '0'
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018 at 2:19 PM Post #3,087 of 4,154

Always same place burning, this is Right side error, Left side has no problem, but I have checked every where no connection error, fuse no broken.
When turn on left side light on and after few minutes right side light on, straight burning happen.
Confusing about what has happened now. Can anyone tell me what is the exact amount of resistor there
Tube light show normal while turn on and after burned tube still light up normal but the BOTH SIDE meter show '0'

That looks like something is burning on the other side of the board or shorted. By any chance do you have an image of the same spot on the other side with the board flipped over?
I dont have a MK8 so cant be of too much help, i would definitely check if the resistor/diode pins are by chance penetrating a wire on the other side.
 
Mar 16, 2018 at 3:04 PM Post #3,088 of 4,154
That looks like something is burning on the other side of the board or shorted. By any chance do you have an image of the same spot on the other side with the board flipped over?
I dont have a MK8 so cant be of too much help, i would definitely check if the resistor/diode pins are by chance penetrating a wire on the other side.
IMG_9138.JPG IMG_9139.JPG IMG_9140.JPG IMG_9141.JPG IMG_9142.JPG IMG_9143.JPG IMG_9144.JPG IMG_9145.JPG IMG_9146.JPG

All seen normal
 
Mar 16, 2018 at 4:24 PM Post #3,089 of 4,154
Are these voltages normal from common ground to PSU side of Anode / Cathode resistors? (From Right , tube 4, to Left, tube 1)
75 - 75 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79 - 79
No, if you’re measuring from psu side to ground it should read +100 V from anode resistors and -100 V from cathode resistors, ei full B+ and B-. If you’re talking about the output stage.

And Pin 1's to driver / output side cathode / anode resistors -
52 - 45 - 53/55 - 55 - 55 - 55 - 53-55 - 55
Don’t understand what it is you’re measuring here? Pin 1 is one of the grids.
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018 at 4:36 PM Post #3,090 of 4,154

Always same place burning, this is Right side error, Left side has no problem, but I have checked every where no connection error, fuse no broken.
When turn on left side light on and after few minutes right side light on, straight burning happen.
Confusing about what has happened now. Can anyone tell me what is the exact amount of resistor there
This has happened to me as well! Check the 100 V zener diodes, they’re most likely open. You’ve circled the B- zener but replace both. I used 3w zener s there followed by 5w resistors. Also check the voltage setting transistors. The one for B- is more than likely broke! Again, replace both. I can give you part number tomorrow when I’m at the computer as the transistors LD use are no longer used.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top