LCD-2 and treble.

[MacedonianHero]

I guess I have trouble with that as well.  How does just more power alter the FR?  Must be something else going on.
 

Have a look here:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

Please read the entire article. Tyll did a fantastic job IMHO.

Try plugging in a pair of HE-6s into an iPhone and then a Lyr...you might be surprised by the difference.

 

[wind016]

I'm worried.  I've had them ten days.  Still waiting for the top to open up.
 
 

The treble is pushed back to account for the fact that the drivers are right next to your ears (unlike with a speaker setup), but they are not rolled off in any way...very extended treble response. But they do need MOAR POWER to open up.

Doesn't make sense. Rolled off treble is rolled off treble regardless of it being a headphone or speaker. All the power in the world isn't going to make the treble neutral, but if you like it, you like it.

????

There is a H-U-G-E difference between pushed back treble (by design to account for the drivers being right next to your ears) like on the LCD-2s vs. rolled off a cliff like the SE530/HD650....BIG. :mad:

As Skylab put it, this is a fact and not up for argument wrt the LCD-2s, they extend very nicely up to 20kHz. May it be too far pushed back for your liking...well to each his/her own. On the SE530s or HD650s, it's simply falls off a cliff...that is rolled off.

And might I ask you your experience with orthos and powerful amps to make these claims?

My experiences are first hand, but thanks for coming out.

Roll off is a more extreme recession. In both examples, the frequencies can still be heard but different volumes.

I heard the LCD 2 through a Menace.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I'm worried.  I've had them ten days.  Still waiting for the top to open up.
 
 

The treble is pushed back to account for the fact that the drivers are right next to your ears (unlike with a speaker setup), but they are not rolled off in any way...very extended treble response. But they do need MOAR POWER to open up.

Doesn't make sense. Rolled off treble is rolled off treble regardless of it being a headphone or speaker. All the power in the world isn't going to make the treble neutral, but if you like it, you like it.

????

There is a H-U-G-E difference between pushed back treble (by design to account for the drivers being right next to your ears) like on the LCD-2s vs. rolled off a cliff like the SE530/HD650....BIG. :mad:

As Skylab put it, this is a fact and not up for argument wrt the LCD-2s, they extend very nicely up to 20kHz. May it be too far pushed back for your liking...well to each his/her own. On the SE530s or HD650s, it's simply falls off a cliff...that is rolled off.

And might I ask you your experience with orthos and powerful amps to make these claims?

My experiences are first hand, but thanks for coming out.

Roll off is a more extreme recession. In both examples, the frequencies can still be heard but different volumes.

I heard the LCD 2 through a Menace. Your age is just as important as your gear

Extreme roll off is missing treble information or treble that is so far out, that it is no longer properly positioned in the sound stage. I absolutely do not hear this with the LCD-2s with the Lyr, though it was slightly true for the Concerto and less so for the WA2.

With the SE530s, the uppermost shimmer of cymbals or flutes were AWOL or barely audible.

What does my age have to do with my gear?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

The LCD-2 is a bit too rolled off ... it's lovely sounding though.  The new HE-500 is less bright and a lot closer to neutral than the previous models. It sounds damned good too. 

Hi Tyll,
Do you mean to say the LCD-2s treble is not pronounced or prominent enough for some tastes?  I think using the term "rolled off" is, in itself, derogatory, rather then simply an objective description.
 
 

 

[wind016]

Is the Menace not enough? Anyways I certainly heard less treble than neutral regardless of the term

 

[MacedonianHero]

Is the Menace not enough? Anyways I certainly heard less treble than neutral regardless of the term

I'm not too familiar with it, it's the Pete Millett amp right? How many watts would it put into 50 ohms?

 

[pp312]

Here's a different take altogether. I find the LCD-2 a touch bright. I have no idea what people mean about recessed highs; there's no hint of
recession to my ears. I listen to orchestral/classical and the cymbals, trumpets etc are all there in their burnished glory. If the LCDs were even a smidgeon brighter I would have a problem.  
 
Mind you, I'm coming from the 650, so that may have something to do with it. I always found the 650 bright enough except in the extreme highs (an aftermarket silver cable helped). Cans like the DT880 and K702 I find unbearably bright. My goal in hi-fi is a natural, balanced sound such as I hear at orchestral concerts, and the LCD is a little brighter than that--that is, it gives me the equivalent brightness of sitting closer than I would normally sit. I use an Onkyo 9555 integrated, which has a separate HP amp, and/or Muse dedicated amp (basically a 1st generation Aune). I prefer the latter as it tends to tame the treble, but the former is probably the better amp overall.
 
 

 

[sigrist]

Quote:

Here's a different take altogether. I find the LCD-2 a touch bright. I have no idea what people mean about recessed highs; there's no hint of
recession to my ears. I listen to orchestral/classical and the cymbals, trumpets etc are all there in their burnished glory. If the LCDs were even a smidgeon brighter I would have a problem.  
 
Mind you, I'm coming from the 650, so that may have something to do with it. I always found the 650 bright enough except in the extreme highs (an aftermarket silver cable helped). Cans like the DT880 and K702 I find unbearably bright. My goal in hi-fi is a natural, balanced sound such as I hear at orchestral concerts, and the LCD is a little brighter than that--that is, it gives me the equivalent brightness of sitting closer than I would normally sit. I use an Onkyo 9555 integrated, which has a separate HP amp, and/or Muse dedicated amp (basically a 1st generation Aune). I prefer the latter as it tends to tame the treble, but the former is probably the better amp overall.
 
 

 
I have a similar opinion about the LCD-2. I'm also coming from classic Senns (HD600 in my case) and definitely the LCD-2 seems a nit brighter, though not by a lot. I attribute it mostly to the fact there's simply more information in the highs (maybe more extension too) with LCD-2.
 
 -- thiago

 

[wind016]

I'm not sure about the Menace, it's not my amp and it was modified. I'm a bit too lazy to look it up too. My memory is a bit poor and you own the LCD2 so I concede.
 
Quote:

Here's a different take altogether. I find the LCD-2 a touch bright. I have no idea what people mean about recessed highs; there's no hint of
recession to my ears. I listen to orchestral/classical and the cymbals, trumpets etc are all there in their burnished glory. If the LCDs were even a smidgeon brighter I would have a problem.  
 
Mind you, I'm coming from the 650, so that may have something to do with it. I always found the 650 bright enough except in the extreme highs (an aftermarket silver cable helped). Cans like the DT880 and K702 I find unbearably bright. My goal in hi-fi is a natural, balanced sound such as I hear at orchestral concerts, and the LCD is a little brighter than that--that is, it gives me the equivalent brightness of sitting closer than I would normally sit. I use an Onkyo 9555 integrated, which has a separate HP amp, and/or Muse dedicated amp (basically a 1st generation Aune). I prefer the latter as it tends to tame the treble, but the former is probably the better amp overall.
 
 

 
I think normally, it is easier for headphones to reproduce an accurate timbre with all instruments with neutral to recessed treble. Bright headphones just sound wrong.
 
I'm also surprised you find orchestras to be darker than the LCD2. I found some concerts to be so bright that I covered my ears. I definitely hear more low end through the LCD2.
 
 
 

 

[ktsai1283]

Quick question...
 
After reading so much about the LCD-2, it seems to me that the only other popular headphones I'm familiar with that have "rolled off" treble are the Sennheiser HD 600/650.  Many people complain about their (the Sennheisers') lack of treble energy and/or their "veil", while many others say that the LCD-2 is like a very refined & overall superior version of the HD 600/650.
 
Has anyone ever compared the two in terms of their treble?  Are the LCD-2s as "rolled off" in the highs as the 600/650 (or maybe even more so)?  If someone could please do a quick comparison (or point me to one), it would give me a great idea of what I'm about to get myself into with the LCD-2 (should have one a little after mid-May).
 
Thanks in advance!

 

[DeadEars]

ktsai1283, you make a good point.  I still have my HD600's, but they're gathering dust since I bought the LCD-2's.  I always considered the HD600 to be better balanced than the HD650 which I found more dark sounding (and a little boring).  The Audeze's give me all the treble I can stand.  As Macedonian Hero has said before, everyone hears a bit differently.  Physiologically, our ears are different, and the positioning of the drivers and the angles created by the headphone pads contribute to different sound signatures.   I don't think the people who find the LCD-2's dark are wrong.  I think they hear them that way.  You need to try them both at a meet to resolve where you come out on this score.  For myself, I find the LCD-2's borderline 'bright" and the HD-800's very bright.  On the same amps at the NJ meet I went to today, the HE-5 and HE-4 are simply excruciatingly bright to me.  Some people may confuse extra brightness in the treble with extra detail.  I like the detail that ortho's provide -- both the Hifiman and Audeze are champs.  But for my listening the LCD-2's provide the best balance I've heard yet.  There are a number of other people who are not similarly impressed.  I would submit that those differences may be more due to physiological differences, and one is not right and another one wrong.  After all, you are the one who needs to decide whether the sound you hear lets you build the illusion of real music in your own head.  Who is to say that my illusion is better than yours?   
 
YMMV
 
Frank

 

[oqvist]

Quote:

Quick question...
 
After reading so much about the LCD-2, it seems to me that the only other popular headphones I'm familiar with that have "rolled off" treble are the Sennheiser HD 600/650.  Many people complain about their (the Sennheisers') lack of treble energy and/or their "veil", while many others say that the LCD-2 is like a very refined & overall superior version of the HD 600/650.
 
Has anyone ever compared the two in terms of their treble?  Are the LCD-2s as "rolled off" in the highs as the 600/650 (or maybe even more so)?  If someone could please do a quick comparison (or point me to one), it would give me a great idea of what I'm about to get myself into with the LCD-2 (should have one a little after mid-May).
 
Thanks in advance!

 
Again the LCD-2 treble is not rolled off it´s shelved. There is no HD 650 veil thankfully. The Clarity of the LCD-2 is extreme in comparison and it´s much more dynamic and detailed. 
 
 

 

[pp312]

DeadEars (or maybe not so dead) wrote: 
 
The Audeze's give me all the treble I can stand.
 
For myself, I find the LCD-2's borderline 'bright"
 
I'm with you, DeadEars.

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

Quick question...
 
After reading so much about the LCD-2, it seems to me that the only other popular headphones I'm familiar with that have "rolled off" treble are the Sennheiser HD 600/650.  Many people complain about their (the Sennheisers') lack of treble energy and/or their "veil", while many others say that the LCD-2 is like a very refined & overall superior version of the HD 600/650.
 
Has anyone ever compared the two in terms of their treble?  Are the LCD-2s as "rolled off" in the highs as the 600/650 (or maybe even more so)?  If someone could please do a quick comparison (or point me to one), it would give me a great idea of what I'm about to get myself into with the LCD-2 (should have one a little after mid-May).
 
Thanks in advance!

Short answer: absolutely not. The LCD-2's treble is not rolled off at all. As has already been said, it's shelved, which means it's slightly less present than some other phones but still goes on forever. I have the LCD and 650 here and have been A/Bing for several days and can assure you the LCD's treble is much more open, extended and present than the 650. Have no fear in that regard. The LCD has a very natural balance in the treble. Most other phones have exaggerated treble.  

 

[ktsai1283]

Thanks for the quick and informative replies, DeadEars, oqvist, and pp312!