[Mellowship]

Yeah thats what I did with my Z5000 before I lost it. I just dislike using foams on the ZS10 and over ear IEMs in general.

In most cases I also dislike using foams on over-ear IEMs. Take the ZS3, you have to press and roll the foam tip, to insert it fast before the foam rebounds and then to give that slight rotation in order for the shell to sit perfectly on your ear. And then, to push the cables over your ears. Many times I stalled in the middle of the street, changing my belongings from hand to hand, just to take care of the correct fitting... Or when someone insists on talking to you, and you have to take a shell off to insert it again.
The only foams I can use with ZS3,4 are a smaller size harder foams that I can push in and rotate without pressing and rolling.
I don't have that problem with the ZS5 though. Maybe because it has a shorter nozzle or because it doesn't need to fit as snuggly as the ZS3,4... or to rotate to its "natural" place...

 

[randomnin]

No no, I said they look identical up to 16k according to the FR graphs posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!

Well, they did measure the cyan one, not the allegedly different sounding purple one, but I liked ES4 better than ED16, so a more comfortable ES4 with slightly more prominent highs is a win to me. Also, if I remember correctly, antdroid's graph of the purple one was similar to this, except the bass boost was nearly non-existent and flatter. Anyway, I ordered the purple ZSN and a black ZS4, and hope that the great sound quality difference between the two won't make me walk around with shiny IEM Isolation and comfort will also play a role here, but, please, ZS4 win!

 

[randomnin]

Yeah thats what I did with my Z5000 before I lost it. I just dislike using foams on the ZS10 and over ear IEMs in general.

Is the part I bolded an oxymoron? Or just conflicting terms?

 

[TLDRonin]

Is the part I bolded an oxymoron? Or just conflicting terms?

I was talking about IEMs that require you to run the cable "over your ear", rather than cable down. I had a gut feeling someone would call me out for that but I'm pretty sure I've seen others reference it that way.

 

[randomnin]

I was talking about IEMs that require you to run the cable "over your ear", rather than cable down. I had a gut feeling someone would call me out for that but I'm pretty sure I've seen others reference it that way.

Well, sorry about the inconvenience then, but, if that's the case, we have confusing terminology here. Or a case of me being unreasonably slow.

 

[Mellowship]

My take on the KZs I have (or had), in decreasing order of preference:

AS10: formidable in almost everything. I wish the shell was finished better or had different materials in order to better translate the intrinsic qualities of this all-BA IEMs. Fast snappy lively bass, great resolving mids, silky but present highs, an imaging that is somewhat in-your-face presentation but, with some concentration, it gets easy to focus. The most "different" KZ of them all, with a truly new sound signature. Not very source-demanding, but sounds better with good DAPs/AMPs.

ZS5v1: big soundstage, great presentation, gets congested easily with weaker sources but scales up incredibly well with good amps and DAPs. Great textures on the bass - it's about quality here - but has enough sub-bass to enjoy too. The mids need power to excite, and when they do, male voices come alive. Treble is best tamed with foam tips to avoid sibilance.

ZS4: snappy happy strong fun bass with a great range and reduced bleed on other frequencies. As a result, the mids, although recessed, are present and very resolving. Treble needs foam tips as it is sometimes piercing. Fit, comfort and isolation are top-notch.

ATE: it's still up here with the big brothers. The old ATE (first version) has such a personality that it is not easy to forget. It is "human" in its flaws and qualities. The female voices are rendered with the right timbre. Bass is always present, although for some tracks it gets messy. Treble is rolled off but still there, still making it's point. The "analogic" nature of the ATE is something I still value. The cable is rubbery and sticky.

ZS3: not every ZS3, but the first version, mate finish, without the foam in the nozzle, with stainless steel grilles, with copper KZ cable and with the perfect silicone large tips from Rock Zyrcon. This is the only way they will sound great, although V-shaped. Strong, thumping bass. Shy mids. In-your-face treble. Great soundstage. Great comfort. Great isolation. Some fun to carry around. Original cable is bad. They need low impedance source with lots of power. Don't even think of connecting it to the KZ BT modules. They will become turds.

IE80: the wildcard. Very well built imitations of the Senns. The bass rocker really works and raises low frequencies by some small notches when turned clockwise. Easily congested with louder music, but very "elegant" with less stressed environments. Mids are crystal clear. Original cable had inverted poles - had to buy a third-party Sennheiser-plug cable. Fit is a mess, only possible with foam tips or with shallow insertion wide silicones. I really like the IE80, but they are not for everyone.

ZST: I wish I could love them more. Never really had the chance to profit from their signature. Everytime I listened to them I had the feeling of missing something. Maybe it was because I never liked the faux-carbon printing on the shells. Maybe they never got along with my FiiO X3II. But then I painted them shells black and use them with the KZ BT cable and they are a lot of fun.

ED9: (with the golden nozzles, obviously) are great. A heavy chunk of metal, beatifully finished and with a great relaxed sound signature. Not as "magic" as the ATE, but still with that "analogic" lushness. A very good implementation of a single dynamic driver indeed.

ZS3: later version, Slater-modded to remove the foam and grille. Even with the mods - which indeed made them slightly better, they don't stand a chance to the older ZS3. More V-shaped, slightly hollow presentation.

ZSE: forward mids. Good soundstage. Easily congested treble. OK bass. Bad isolation. Cable microphonics - a lot. Nice vintage mid-80's looks though!

EDR2: well built until the back grille falls off. Great textured bass. Sticky cable. A great and fun signature and cheap enough to be a great introduction gift to those who don't know the brand. Price/performance, these rule!

EDSE: like the EDR2, almost the same sound signature but with more intrusive bass that makes them sound less defined.

ED7: (large shell) woodies goodies, with a one-note bass. They are detailed in the mids, if you can ear them... I always look at them and think about that silky wooden sound, but then I put my VJJB or DZAT and easily forget the ED7 exist. They are not bad at all, but will not get lots of use...

ATR: dull. Gave them away. Linear? No. Dull.

HDS1: very small, a problem to get them to stay in my large ears. Had to wear them upside down with cable behind the ear. Weird sound signature. Mids too upfront. Bass with low texture. Wife wears them at the gym with Sansa player. Not my favourite microdriver...

ED12: the worst of them all. Hollow annoying mids that covered the whole spectrum. Very badly built. Mine had the colour codes inverted, with red to the left and blue? (it was purple...) to the right. Shell cover was not fixed well. Had to glue it down with a dab of epoxy. Awfull experience in every aspect.

 

[CoiL]

same like all KZ. with stock tips. my hear is not the problem, it's sure. i have not or very little sub bass. bass is very more proeminent

Well... the problem is still Your hearing or bad fit with stock tips. Probably latter one. ES4 definitely has more than enough sub-bass. It doesn`t extend very far but sub-bass is certainly there.
Listen to NIN - Hesistation marks , sub-bass is there.

My take on the KZs I have (or had), in decreasing order of preference:
ZS5v1: big soundstage, great presentation, gets congested easily with weaker sources but scales up incredibly well with good amps and DAPs. Great textures on the bass - it's about quality here - but has enough sub-bass to enjoy too. The mids need power to excite, and when they do, male voices come alive. Treble is best tamed with foam tips to avoid sibilance.

I also listened to my ZS5v1 today after long time listening with modded IT01 and... they still are the best KZ I have heard to date and sound actually eery similar to modded IT01 in general sound signature - but SQ due to graphene DD is another level with IT01 - much more detailed and more coherent. But v1 excels in soundstage size being more "holographic" and tad more stretched into width.
But I have to note again that I`m powering my v1 with 80mA/3V per channel - it need loads of juice to sound fantastic, I mean FANTASTIC! ;P

 

[Mellowship]

Well... the problem is still Your hearing or bad fit with stock tips. Probably latter one. ES4 definitely has more than enough sub-bass. It doesn`t extend very far but sub-bass is certainly there.
Listen to NIN - Hesistation marks , sub-bass is there.

I also listened to my ZS5v1 today after long time listening with modded IT01 and... they still are the best KZ I have heard to date and sound actually eery similar to modded IT01 in general sound signature - but SQ due to graphene DD is another level with IT01 - much more detailed and more coherent. But v1 excels in soundstage size being more "holographic" and tad more stretched into width.
But I have to note again that I`m powering my v1 with 80mA/3V per channel - it need loads of juice to sound fantastic, I mean FANTASTIC! ;P

I hesitated when I put the AS10 on top of the ZS5v1. I think it was because of the novelty. They are different flavours of KZ.

 

[loomisjohnson]

Looks matter. One of my favorites, the c631 (Joyplus/Timmkoo/Estron) still makes me cringe when I put it on. But it sounds so good....

Maybe I need to do the Slater Black Tape "aesthetic" mod

i've actually gotten used to the c631. however, i still can't abide the urbanfun, which has that ridiculous juvenile logo and horrible green color--as a result i rarely pull it out of the drawer despite excellent sonics. call me shallow.

 

[loomisjohnson]

Great post Loomis!

Here's my take:

1. ZS6 - better-fitting than the ZS5, better tuned with increased focus across the board.
(high definition but piercing treble for some)

2. ZSR—enveloping and engaging, with smoother highs and more forward mids than previous hybrids; these stress fun and energy over transparency and seamless coherence.

3. BA10 (nozzle foam removed) - Laid back with tons of detail (though micro-detail is tapered). Bass when it's called for and gone when it's not. Great with silicones at moderate volume levels but foam tips are mandatory at higher volumes. I find that they run smoother with a low output impedance source.

4. ZS5 (v1) - giant stage, very natural, great extension at both ends but gentle decay in lower frequencies keep them from being #2 on this list (require a low output impedance source and power to shine).

5. We have a tie!
ED10 - open, airy & energetic. rich & clear throughout the spectrum; only drawback is shallow depth.
EDR1 - rich and refined (more v-shaped than the ED2R), with very good clarity and coherence, especially through more powerful sources; stage is narrower than their pricier peers, but these are otherwise difficult to criticize.

6. HDS3 - can't put my finger on it but these just do it for me. "Irrationally engaging" is a good description. Holographic restrained energy! These are like the "honey chicken bowl at my local Japanese restaurant, sweet with the perfect amount of kick (spice).

7. We have a tie!
ED9 (gold filter with foam removed) - open, airy, natural and engaging. Dense but soft bass.
ED9 (brass filter with transplanted foam from the gold filter) - more balanced approach while retaining great clarity and that "indefinable naturalness".

8. ZST - much surpassed by the newer hybrids; lacks midrange presence though imaging/layering are excellent

9. ED3 "Perfection" - generally balanced and clean with a slight lift in the upper-treble (ZS6 sound signature via KZ's early single dynamic setup. Surreal for classical and baroque genres.

10. ZS3 - once you find the tips that tame its giant bass, these are the most party-hearty of the bunch; not much treble detail and they can be shouty with the foam mod.

11. We have a tie!
ATR(i) with ABS dynamic driver - Best all-rounder that KZ has released to date. Airy with great sense of timbre, nearly balanced, great at nothing but good at almost everything except upper-treble extension.
HDS1 - one of the few KZ's with a mid-centric (inverted "V") sound signature, not much sub-bass rumble or upper-treble but otherwise excellent.

12. ED3 "Acme" - these need a bit of midrange body, but are otherwise close in spirit to the ED9, with uncanny imaging

13. ED2R—balanced and surprisingly refined for the price, with vg imaging and pretty good detail; only a slight highend graininess mars the presentation

14. ED8 - A bassheads dream despite their heavy metal housings, good extension from sub-bass to lower-treble with a warm bent.

15. EDSE—not hyper-detailed or extended, and midbass can overwhelm, but tons of fun

16. We have a tie!
ED7 - deep bass with centered mids but a perfect seal is mandatory, smooth yet detailed high end. a decent listen but mostly used for a change of pace in my rotation.
ATE-S - slightly brighter than the ATE(ii) with faster and harder-hitting mid-bass.

17. ATE - warmish and decent sounding, though lacking in high end extension and sparkle—the ZS3 do the same overall signature bigger and better

18. HDS2—not good

Once we get past #7 on the list I could jostle some of the others into higher/lower positionings on any given Sunday depending on my mood. For example, I prefer the ED8 sound signature over the ZS3's but the ZS3 is top notch in comfort and isolation.
Haven't heard the ZS4 or ED16 yet, my ZSE is MIA.

*** EDIT ***

Completely forgot about the ZSA. I'd place it on equal footing with the HDS3, small comfortable and "Irrationally engaging". At some point I'll pick up an AS10, ZS10, ES4, ZS4, ZSN and ED16 but I'd be willing to bet that we'll see a new release or two just in time for black friday which is a couple of weeks away. I'm mostly looking forward to the ZS7 though.

outstanding--now you got me curious about the ba10. if you want to do a temporary swap for obsessive completion's sake, lemme know.

 

[BadReligionPunk]

Does anyone here own both the ZSN and the ES4 to compare?

I do. ES4 has quite a lot of low end. Its a bit loose and sloppy and bleeds quite a bit into the mids, which are natural and warm. Treble relative to the mids are balanced and a bit dark. The ES4 sounds really good to me for bass heavy genres, but things get to muddy when sped up. I know others describe ES4 diferently but I hear the IEM as a L. Overall presentation to me is slightly laid back and smooth.

Basically the exact opposite of ZSN LOL

 

[Deveraux]

Which size tips to get for zsn? T400?

Anybody?

 

[1clearhead]

I do. ES4 has quite a lot of low end. Its a bit loose and sloppy and bleeds quite a bit into the mids, which are natural and warm. Treble relative to the mids are balanced and a bit dark. The ES4 sounds really good to me for bass heavy genres, but things get to muddy when sped up. I know others describe ES4 diferently but I hear the IEM as a L. Overall presentation to me is slightly laid back and smooth.

Basically the exact opposite of ZSN LOL

Really good to know! After reading other reviews outside of head-fi, I held back thinking exactly as you stated on their sound signature. Personally, I won't be getting the ES4. I have a stash of other models with a similar signature.

Thanks! ...Good looking out!

 

[mbwilson111]

Anybody?

I am happy with the tips that came with my ZSN.

 

[1clearhead]

I am happy with the tips that came with my ZSN.

+1 Me too...

...Never tried them with comply or foam tips, yet.