micmacmo
500+ Head-Fier
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Fabulous. Glad it worked for you. And thanks for reporting back. What pads are you using?
Quote:
Quote:
Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!
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Purpleness
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Im currently using HM5 mk. 2 pads stretched over the baffle. Really comfy.
mosshorn
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I'm still waiting on my HM5 pads, but maybe someone can clarify for me. What particular sound changes did you note over the stock pads? I'm messing around with the stock right now, and although it sounds excellent, there's not enough presence in the 20-100hz range. Any ideas?
micmacmo
500+ Head-Fier
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In my experience, the new pads will address your problems with lack of bass. It's all about the seal between the pads and your head. If the HM5 pads are as thick as the 003 pads, as others have reported, I think they'll give you the seal you need. But you may experience a slight change in the mids too.
Quote:
Stretching them kills the bass. Try removing them, letting the elastic shrink back to size a bit, then attach them with double sided adhesive tape (not foam). Run the tape all the way around to ensure a good seal and that the pads won't roll off. When you put the pads on, let them assume their natural shape, and run your finger around the underside to press the elastic band down onto the tape firmly. That's crucial to get the seal.
I bet they'll sound much more impactful (maybe too much depending on your mods. If you currently feel they are bass heavy don't try this).
Stretching them kills the bass. Try removing them, letting the elastic shrink back to size a bit, then attach them with double sided adhesive tape (not foam). Run the tape all the way around to ensure a good seal and that the pads won't roll off. When you put the pads on, let them assume their natural shape, and run your finger around the underside to press the elastic band down onto the tape firmly. That's crucial to get the seal.
I bet they'll sound much more impactful (maybe too much depending on your mods. If you currently feel they are bass heavy don't try this).
devouringone3
Headphoneus Supremus
At first I didn’t like my mod at all, but I don’t know, recently, three things changed that:
I’ve got an headphone amplifier (omg and it’s doing it so much good, my past self who did not care for a headphone amplifier wouldn’t believe me).
I removed my sock mod because I got used with working with plastic leather: all I needed was a dry cloth next to me for the moment I remove the headphone to wash away the sweat while it’s easy to do so (and to keep the headphone comfortable for next listening session, instead letting it become sticky); prior to that I simply wouldn’t take pleather without a sock on it but this wrecked the seal and destroyed the SQ. Comfort with Fostex pads is always an issue when you ears touches the driver wall, although I had the sweat (that you need to wash) problem taken care of… oh yeah and you get to make a seal, I will never say that enough.
Thirdly, I’ve got a decent T50RP mod, called Koda^2 MKII, which, which to my surprise doesn’t sound as much “open” sounding as my mod, so it made me realize my mod, also a closed can, wasn’t so bad. It also gave me a new perspective on the sound of the T50RP driver, and the effect a closed enclosure can have.
Alright, without sock, you get some kind of seal, and bass come in, sound becomes more comfortable, highs less piercing and prominent. My mod simply won’t increase the bass of the stock that much T50RP, I’ve failed at making thunderous bass… I’ve made it tighter but it’s definitely not flat (on a graph) down to 10 - 20 Hz like my Koda, which has a surreal, very deep, and insanely tight bass. So, on my mod, instead, I will say that you get to "hear" the bass, while the Koda, Thunderpants, and the T50RP, properly modified, has what it takes to make you “feel" it, very much like a LCD-2-3, judging by the comparison of the graphs of the those headphones (T50RP mods and Audeze's) at Innerfidelity.
At first to get the most bass I felt like I needed to live with using this tool around my head wearing my mod:
, to increase clamping force, seal, and bass and stuff (to make it sound right), but discomfort was inescapable as this (exaggerated) pressure made my ear touch the baffle and you definitely want to avoid this… Now I get a similar and natural sound signature without such a silly tool. All it takes is me pushing as hard as I can on the headphone to shape my ears in the pads, the sound stays good after that. All that remains is the issue of comfort, but I think I’ve found a good spot (my ears need to be right in the middle, maybe a little in front of the headphone, not touching the baffle) to write this long post.
Sorry I wasn’t speaking about the sound, more about my experience with it, which is just, dealing with the stock Fostex pads, but I think it’s essential if you want to get good sound. Anyway this surely has been spoken a lot about already, so, sorry.
Don’t use sock mod, make sure you have decent seal, and ideally change your pads to at least a SHR840 replacement set.
First of all, I now love my mod, it’s official, and it corresponds to my taste completely and I’m getting to appreciate that, only 5 months after having done my mod (on Christmas). Times goes by so fast
, actually.
Sound signature and balance hasn’t changed that much surprisingly (compared to stock T50RP), with all that I’ve stuffed in those cups (more is, not that much more, but definitely not “less”). Mids are still the biggest part of the show, very in your face (reminiscent of Grado). Bass isn’t so powerful, but it is enough to envelop you in sound, and away from the rest of the world, and it sounds very natural … contrary to what you might believe super mass dampening like I did would remove to the sound, bass hasn’t vanished… I’d even say it has increased a bit in quantity (and definitely a lot in quality). You would listen to my mod and you wouldn’t feel like something is missing at all, actually. Highs… sorry for being so boring, but they didn’t changed much either, in quantity. They might be a bit recessed though… less of them than when I listen to my JSGP HP-1000 (which has less mids than your run-for-the-mill Grado). Mids are the loudest of the bunch, spectrum is definitely not “U” shaped… it would be “upside-down U” shaped.
So yeah, here you go, I traced in purple how I felt like my mod was, in comparison to the measurements of my Koda^2, made by Lokesen:
Definitely very flat and not peaky, a bit less treble and bass is less deep although a lot better around 120 Hz. That’s when compared to my Koda^2 MKII (which I won’t speak of here, but you can inquire if you want to know more about it [only three pairs were sold in total :/ ]).
Against the stock T50RP my mod increases the bass a bit, definitely makes the mids more pronounced, and the highs stays the same very much. Next to Grados, my mod offers you more bass, a tad more mids, but less highs.
That’s it for the balance/quantities, but the best is down below! Read on (about sound quality)
People accuse the T50RP to sound like an old stereo headphone, muddy, congested, with poor extension on both side (and I definitely agree). I fixed that, big time! Clarity, instrument separation, bass tightness, details, airiness all skyrocketed together! Resonance is gone forever and it’s like a big mask had faded which liberated all the details. My Tin cans now sound very “hi-fi” and top performing. Just like my Grado HP-1000 actually, but warmer, and treble is very similar also! Soundstage didn’t change from the stock T50RP one, and it’s not as big as my HP-1000 (which excels everywhere and is my absolute reference and image of music, as one of the world’s most neutral and transparent headphone), but my T50RP feels a lot more intimate and cozy sounding, and less analytical. This is most probably due to the fact the cans are closed. Oh yeah T50RP is a closed headphone, I HAD FORGOT ABOUT THAT, lol. Definitely more open-sounding, and a lot more than my Koda^2, which itself was very positively reviewed by VictorHalgaard (“Swampax” on YouTube, he made a video review), in which he mention preferring it to his Thunderpants.
If one thing, the mids of my mod are a bit overpowering, when you raise the volume you reach a point where their shoutyness/forwardness (I don’t know the word, prominence) makes electrical guitars harsh (they become the only thing you hear, they take over all of the rest), that’s the cue to stop cranking up the volume I guess. Yet, my mod remains coherent and enjoyable at very high volumes, especially comparatively to my RS1 and SR200 who are very poor in that area (higher volumes). Another thing, if you have a good amp and recording (something that’s not full of crazy and distorted electrical guitars), past the point of overpowered electrical guitars (when you’ve not encountered that problem), the highs (all cymbals) suddenly becomes very aggressive and fall out of proportion (they were recessed, they become huge and strident). Yet I think that those two issues might just be flaws in the songs I’m listening to (synth metal), because, sometimes (on some other songs), I can push the volume higher without these flaws and peaks to ever come alive and harshening.
I’m very satisfied about my mod (once you find a good fit, and no need to bend the headband really, which took 5 months to realize), I would hand it to you straight away and dare you to find something wrong or missing in its sound. I think it’s fine, and put the T50RP driver very nicely.
Alright the moment you’ve all been waiting for, which modification caused what, in the sound.
Only a few elements were game changing actually, the reflex dot (a big patch of hard silicone with a square of electrical tape on top of it, for looking good and like Halloween) increased the treble and mid ranges, but treble the most. Plasticine, 50 grams in each cups, evenly spread out (covering even the outer part of the driver’s diaphragm and wire contacts), then poked one million times with a toothpick (as much as you can) to fill in the empty spaces and plastic concavities of the driver, and then compressing it all as much as you can (yet making sure to not cover/fill the only bass port), did most of the job of cleaning up the sound, killing the resonance, and changed nothing to the overall balance of the sound. Akasa Paxmate lining of the cups did the least change, but cleaned up the sound a little more, and took off some treble.
The rest of my mod, although fancy looking, did almost nothing except maybe tightening up the bass, and removing some highs but that I’m not sure. That “rest” includes an “empty-square” shaped layer of surgical “transpore” tape on the back of the driver, sandwiched by a layer of stiff white felt on top of it, and then another layer of felt (a square of the same size of the stock white dust-filter on the driver) covering the reflex dot and the “#” shaped sandwich (transpore+white felt) around it, with a cube of foam (cut from a big stripe of foam that came with an air conditioner, to be sat in your window) on top of the bunch, that touches both the roof and the driver sides and gets compressed enough to hold the reflex dot in place, pushing it against the driver. I also tweaked the bass vents a little in try to make them less permeable to air. I put a layer of stiff felt on it and then a layer of “transpore” to finish… but I don’t think this tentative changed anything to the sound or the bass (I was hoping that it would increase the bass, like you do when you cover four vents out of five). All of this paragraph, you can deduce it from the pictures I posted in my previous post:
Alright thank you! I’m not sure if I can really recommend my mod, I would like to try Paradox and other people’s before speaking. Thinking back, I’ve done some really wacky stuff and surprisingly the sound signature of the T50RP (when you isolate it from all the flaws it comes with “stock”) was well preserved, and that’s what I’m the most happy of.
I hope I’ve been informative enough, as the newest animal in the zoo.
If I drop my T50RP in a volcano in eruption, by accident, I’m buying another “Super Mod” kit on eBay and redoing, EXACTLY THE SAME THING
…
Right now I’m still eyeing the quilted maple Thunderpants for sale on Smeggy’s website, I need to find a way to justify the purchase though.
I’ve got an headphone amplifier (omg and it’s doing it so much good, my past self who did not care for a headphone amplifier wouldn’t believe me).
I removed my sock mod because I got used with working with plastic leather: all I needed was a dry cloth next to me for the moment I remove the headphone to wash away the sweat while it’s easy to do so (and to keep the headphone comfortable for next listening session, instead letting it become sticky); prior to that I simply wouldn’t take pleather without a sock on it but this wrecked the seal and destroyed the SQ. Comfort with Fostex pads is always an issue when you ears touches the driver wall, although I had the sweat (that you need to wash) problem taken care of… oh yeah and you get to make a seal, I will never say that enough.
Thirdly, I’ve got a decent T50RP mod, called Koda^2 MKII, which, which to my surprise doesn’t sound as much “open” sounding as my mod, so it made me realize my mod, also a closed can, wasn’t so bad. It also gave me a new perspective on the sound of the T50RP driver, and the effect a closed enclosure can have.
Alright, without sock, you get some kind of seal, and bass come in, sound becomes more comfortable, highs less piercing and prominent. My mod simply won’t increase the bass of the stock that much T50RP, I’ve failed at making thunderous bass… I’ve made it tighter but it’s definitely not flat (on a graph) down to 10 - 20 Hz like my Koda, which has a surreal, very deep, and insanely tight bass. So, on my mod, instead, I will say that you get to "hear" the bass, while the Koda, Thunderpants, and the T50RP, properly modified, has what it takes to make you “feel" it, very much like a LCD-2-3, judging by the comparison of the graphs of the those headphones (T50RP mods and Audeze's) at Innerfidelity.
At first to get the most bass I felt like I needed to live with using this tool around my head wearing my mod:
, to increase clamping force, seal, and bass and stuff (to make it sound right), but discomfort was inescapable as this (exaggerated) pressure made my ear touch the baffle and you definitely want to avoid this… Now I get a similar and natural sound signature without such a silly tool. All it takes is me pushing as hard as I can on the headphone to shape my ears in the pads, the sound stays good after that. All that remains is the issue of comfort, but I think I’ve found a good spot (my ears need to be right in the middle, maybe a little in front of the headphone, not touching the baffle) to write this long post.
Sorry I wasn’t speaking about the sound, more about my experience with it, which is just, dealing with the stock Fostex pads, but I think it’s essential if you want to get good sound. Anyway this surely has been spoken a lot about already, so, sorry.
Don’t use sock mod, make sure you have decent seal, and ideally change your pads to at least a SHR840 replacement set.
First of all, I now love my mod, it’s official, and it corresponds to my taste completely and I’m getting to appreciate that, only 5 months after having done my mod (on Christmas). Times goes by so fast
, actually.Sound signature and balance hasn’t changed that much surprisingly (compared to stock T50RP), with all that I’ve stuffed in those cups (more is, not that much more, but definitely not “less”). Mids are still the biggest part of the show, very in your face (reminiscent of Grado). Bass isn’t so powerful, but it is enough to envelop you in sound, and away from the rest of the world, and it sounds very natural … contrary to what you might believe super mass dampening like I did would remove to the sound, bass hasn’t vanished… I’d even say it has increased a bit in quantity (and definitely a lot in quality). You would listen to my mod and you wouldn’t feel like something is missing at all, actually. Highs… sorry for being so boring, but they didn’t changed much either, in quantity. They might be a bit recessed though… less of them than when I listen to my JSGP HP-1000 (which has less mids than your run-for-the-mill Grado). Mids are the loudest of the bunch, spectrum is definitely not “U” shaped… it would be “upside-down U” shaped.
So yeah, here you go, I traced in purple how I felt like my mod was, in comparison to the measurements of my Koda^2, made by Lokesen:
Definitely very flat and not peaky, a bit less treble and bass is less deep although a lot better around 120 Hz. That’s when compared to my Koda^2 MKII (which I won’t speak of here, but you can inquire if you want to know more about it [only three pairs were sold in total :/ ]).
Against the stock T50RP my mod increases the bass a bit, definitely makes the mids more pronounced, and the highs stays the same very much. Next to Grados, my mod offers you more bass, a tad more mids, but less highs.
That’s it for the balance/quantities, but the best is down below! Read on (about sound quality)
People accuse the T50RP to sound like an old stereo headphone, muddy, congested, with poor extension on both side (and I definitely agree). I fixed that, big time! Clarity, instrument separation, bass tightness, details, airiness all skyrocketed together! Resonance is gone forever and it’s like a big mask had faded which liberated all the details. My Tin cans now sound very “hi-fi” and top performing. Just like my Grado HP-1000 actually, but warmer, and treble is very similar also! Soundstage didn’t change from the stock T50RP one, and it’s not as big as my HP-1000 (which excels everywhere and is my absolute reference and image of music, as one of the world’s most neutral and transparent headphone), but my T50RP feels a lot more intimate and cozy sounding, and less analytical. This is most probably due to the fact the cans are closed. Oh yeah T50RP is a closed headphone, I HAD FORGOT ABOUT THAT, lol. Definitely more open-sounding, and a lot more than my Koda^2, which itself was very positively reviewed by VictorHalgaard (“Swampax” on YouTube, he made a video review), in which he mention preferring it to his Thunderpants.
If one thing, the mids of my mod are a bit overpowering, when you raise the volume you reach a point where their shoutyness/forwardness (I don’t know the word, prominence) makes electrical guitars harsh (they become the only thing you hear, they take over all of the rest), that’s the cue to stop cranking up the volume I guess. Yet, my mod remains coherent and enjoyable at very high volumes, especially comparatively to my RS1 and SR200 who are very poor in that area (higher volumes). Another thing, if you have a good amp and recording (something that’s not full of crazy and distorted electrical guitars), past the point of overpowered electrical guitars (when you’ve not encountered that problem), the highs (all cymbals) suddenly becomes very aggressive and fall out of proportion (they were recessed, they become huge and strident). Yet I think that those two issues might just be flaws in the songs I’m listening to (synth metal), because, sometimes (on some other songs), I can push the volume higher without these flaws and peaks to ever come alive and harshening.
I’m very satisfied about my mod (once you find a good fit, and no need to bend the headband really, which took 5 months to realize), I would hand it to you straight away and dare you to find something wrong or missing in its sound. I think it’s fine, and put the T50RP driver very nicely.
Alright the moment you’ve all been waiting for, which modification caused what, in the sound.
Only a few elements were game changing actually, the reflex dot (a big patch of hard silicone with a square of electrical tape on top of it, for looking good and like Halloween) increased the treble and mid ranges, but treble the most. Plasticine, 50 grams in each cups, evenly spread out (covering even the outer part of the driver’s diaphragm and wire contacts), then poked one million times with a toothpick (as much as you can) to fill in the empty spaces and plastic concavities of the driver, and then compressing it all as much as you can (yet making sure to not cover/fill the only bass port), did most of the job of cleaning up the sound, killing the resonance, and changed nothing to the overall balance of the sound. Akasa Paxmate lining of the cups did the least change, but cleaned up the sound a little more, and took off some treble.
The rest of my mod, although fancy looking, did almost nothing except maybe tightening up the bass, and removing some highs but that I’m not sure. That “rest” includes an “empty-square” shaped layer of surgical “transpore” tape on the back of the driver, sandwiched by a layer of stiff white felt on top of it, and then another layer of felt (a square of the same size of the stock white dust-filter on the driver) covering the reflex dot and the “#” shaped sandwich (transpore+white felt) around it, with a cube of foam (cut from a big stripe of foam that came with an air conditioner, to be sat in your window) on top of the bunch, that touches both the roof and the driver sides and gets compressed enough to hold the reflex dot in place, pushing it against the driver. I also tweaked the bass vents a little in try to make them less permeable to air. I put a layer of stiff felt on it and then a layer of “transpore” to finish… but I don’t think this tentative changed anything to the sound or the bass (I was hoping that it would increase the bass, like you do when you cover four vents out of five). All of this paragraph, you can deduce it from the pictures I posted in my previous post:
Alright thank you! I’m not sure if I can really recommend my mod, I would like to try Paradox and other people’s before speaking. Thinking back, I’ve done some really wacky stuff and surprisingly the sound signature of the T50RP (when you isolate it from all the flaws it comes with “stock”) was well preserved, and that’s what I’m the most happy of.
I hope I’ve been informative enough, as the newest animal in the zoo.
If I drop my T50RP in a volcano in eruption, by accident, I’m buying another “Super Mod” kit on eBay and redoing, EXACTLY THE SAME THING
…Right now I’m still eyeing the quilted maple Thunderpants for sale on Smeggy’s website, I need to find a way to justify the purchase though.
devouringone3
Headphoneus Supremus
Photos:
(I made sure to not change the exterior)
Koda^2, made in Denmark:
MK-II:
(fine tuning of the bass port) (you cover the bass ports, you loose the thunderous bass / surreal effect)
Steel ball-and-socket joint:
Koda^2, made in Denmark:
MK-II:
Steel ball-and-socket joint:
Netdewt
Head-Fier
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I should get my T20RP tomorrow. How should I tailor my modding to compensate for any shortcomings in the T20RP vs. the T50RP, if there are any?
bluemonkeyflyer
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Posts
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Quote:
One guy's opinion: Little to none.
The only real difference I see is that the T20 has more cup venting due to its more open mesh compared to the T50's more dense felt. I'm not sure why there's a 700 Hz notch on my graphs of the T20's; maybe because it does not have a cover over the headband hanger screw compartments?
In stock form, they both have rolled off bass and treble. And both sound pretty bad in stock form due to crazy resonances bouncing around off all that plastic.
And, look at the T40's even greater bass roll off. "Why," you ask? Because its cup vents are completely sealed? Hmm...Could be.
One guy's opinion: Little to none.
The only real difference I see is that the T20 has more cup venting due to its more open mesh compared to the T50's more dense felt. I'm not sure why there's a 700 Hz notch on my graphs of the T20's; maybe because it does not have a cover over the headband hanger screw compartments?
In stock form, they both have rolled off bass and treble. And both sound pretty bad in stock form due to crazy resonances bouncing around off all that plastic.
And, look at the T40's even greater bass roll off. "Why," you ask? Because its cup vents are completely sealed? Hmm...Could be.
Netdewt
Head-Fier
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Thanks! Very interesting pics.
I'll just plan on covering the inside of the cups with Silverstone, swapping pads, and play around with modeling clay for now. Maybe I'll get some thick felt and Dynamat later?
I'll just plan on covering the inside of the cups with Silverstone, swapping pads, and play around with modeling clay for now. Maybe I'll get some thick felt and Dynamat later?
bluemonkeyflyer
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Posts
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Quote:
Try a lot of cotton with that config with most of the cup vents closed; and then try Grodan rockwool instead of cotton, a la "Dr. Mo" micmacmo.
Try a lot of cotton with that config with most of the cup vents closed; and then try Grodan rockwool instead of cotton, a la "Dr. Mo" micmacmo.
Netdewt
Head-Fier
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Oh yeah, the cotton. I have a hydroponics place nearby also. If anyone has a little extra Dynamat they could send for a few bucks that'd be sweet.
Anaxilus
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2010
- Posts
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devouringone3
Headphoneus Supremus
What do you mean?
OH, I SEE, LOL
...
True.. Power of the Fostex
And Power of the John Petrucci
OH, I SEE, LOL
...
True.. Power of the Fostex
And Power of the John Petrucci
Anaxilus
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2010
- Posts
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- 339
Watch the video....
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