Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!

[wje]

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Jeez....again you people are hounding me as to why...?!?
 
Yes, I am not going to share my secrets...however, I do find it funny that at least 2 people have figured out what I did based on my "teasers" that are "of little value". It's not my fault that you are unable to recognize a diamond in the rough. I also appreciate and like to see the new creative paths some people have taken trying to solve the problems that plague this headphone.
 

Me?  I'm not hounding you.  Just simply making a statement of observation.  However, I'm at a point with my T50RPs where they are very pleasing to listen to with the genres of music that I enjoy.  Where there is or is not some other secret modification out there that remains to be utilized by the rest of the people here, I'll find it interesting to read about.  However, it doesn't mean that I'll take apart my Fostex 'phones and apply the modification.  At this point, I consider my modifications essentially done.  What I've applied are all the basics that have been publicly covered here in the forum.  Now, my main purpose is to assist others through contributions in the thread to help them through with their questions.
 
The only question(s) that I don't care to answer are for those new people who just arrived and proclaim that they're too lazy to read all of the thread so they want someone to take 15 minutes to paraphrase the exact modification process in a single response.  To me, that just doesn't fly.  One has to essentially review the process as the modification steps have evolved here to understand what was changed and what the results were.  There's a lot of great information in these posts.
 

 

[BGRoberts]

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Its like someone threw the switch on the bat signal.

*LOL*
 

 

[hans030390]

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But c'mon guys, some use creativity! All I've seen here are 126 variations of play-doh placed here and there. Essentially the same thing over and over again. What's next? Curing the play-doh with the semen of a silverback monkey? It's not gonna work. This is not meant as a slam, but as encouragement.

I think the problem is a general lack of knowledge and understanding of speakers/headphones, acoustics, physics of sound, etc. At least, that's the impression I have, and it could be completely wrong (no offense to anyone if it is). It's kind of hard to be creative when one is not up to speed on the subject or not sure how to apply the the knowledge they might have.
 
However, I do think many on here would be willing to learn more about this subject, and there have already been some great examples of this! There's a couple of potential problems, though. The first is that trying to learn something new like this (and sound can be a fairly complex subject) is daunting. There are so many resources out there, and it's hard enough figuring out where to start and where to go from there. It's hard to sort out what you need to know, what you don't need to know, what's applicable, what's not, etc.
 
The second is that it can take an extraordinary amount of time and dedication to really learn a new subject like this. Some don't have the time, and some aren't willing to give the time.
 
Speaking from experience, the only reason I'm quite knowledgeable and skilled with computers, networking, and IT stuff in general is because I started researching it at a young age out of pure interest. My parents used to give me crap for spending so much time on the computer (or working on computers), but they realize now it's a pretty key part of my life and career. People come to me for help because I've literally spent the a large portion of my life dedicated to this interest. They know my knowledge and experience is sound and trustworthy. Sure, they could try and solve their problems themselves, but that usually ends in frustration for both parties. 
 
I'm not saying one will need years of studying to be able to mod their T50RPs into something amazing, but it certainly won't be a walk in the park learning enough for it to make a difference.
 
I entirely agree that we could use some more creativity and digging into the topic of sound, but I also don't think it's as simple as just saying "use some creativity." That's like me telling people to just "use Google" when they run into computer problems. Almost everyone needs some guidance in addition to that. Otherwise, well...their problems stay the same! Only a very small minority of people can take something as vague as "use Google" and get positive results.
 
I don't mean this as an insult or a complaint...nothing like that! You speak the truth. I just think many of us could use more than somewhat vague hints and tips if we're expected to be more creative.

 

[hans030390]

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LFF can chime in if he wants, and I'm not trying to speak for him, but I think him revealing "The Paradox" would cause most people to simply parrot his set-up, limiting exploration and creativity.
The Paradox isn't an end-all, you should tune your T50RP to your ears.
Man, I really want some FA-003 pads..

I hope I'm not saying too much, but LFF mentioned to me that there is a noticeable variation between T50RPs despite all having the same house sound. Most would not be able to tell the difference, but measurements have shown these variations. One reason he won't hand out his mod is because, in order to be as close to perfect as possible (which he strives for), each T50RP needs different tweaks and such according to his ears and decisions. As he put it, there is no "one mod to rule them all". I think that's pretty respectable.
 

 

[purrin]

 

 I just think many of us could use more than somewhat vague hints and tips if we're expected to be more creative.

 
Here's a tip regarding tuning the bass. The same exact principles used in designing and tuning speaker (sub) woofers apply. Internal, volume, sealed designs, porting, effects of stuffing material upon volume, internal bracing, mass loading, dampening. All these apply. Unfortunately we are working in a much physically smaller space, so the typical design programs won't work, and experimentation will be required.
 
Within the limits of the driver (which is small, there are some serious trade-offs because the driver is small.):
 

1. We can tune to get more mid-bass and warmth
2. We can tune to get leaner tighter bass
3. We can tune to get more bass extension

 
The Internet of full of resources. Lack of creativity based on lack of knowledge is a poor excuse in 2012. I recommend that folks build a subwoofer. At least two types. One high volume SPL and another sub-bass 20-40Hz for audio. At least one should be ported. A lot will be learned.
 
Also, I would recommend that folks have a neutral reference without ringing artifacts, whether they be inexpensive monitors (please tune bass for appropriate space), or speakers (again, set up correctly), or IEMs such as the UERM or JH13, ES5 (which are close enough.) I've already heard too many wonky T50RP mods. Some of them commercially sold.
 
No pain, no gain.
 
P.S. Here's a program I've used in the past: http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro Yes, I've made the effort on behalf of everyone to spend 5 minutes on Google to find it since I had I forgotten what it was called. Pick a random driver, play with the volume size and port tuning. See what happens to the bass response. Still won't make up for what you will learn by actually making one and playing with internal bracing, mass loading, dampening, etc. of a real speaker (and learning how these things improve and affect the sound.)
 
Personally, from what I've seen, and in general, I'd keep away from the dampening schemes and concentrate more on mass loading. Actually I would just start from scratch and not even bother reading anything from this thread. Taking a fresh approach can be good. As for smoothing out the response from the midrange to the treble, I'll let the rest of you guys figure it out. I can't help it if the three people I know who have already figured it out happen to born with more inherent creativity than others.

 

[hans030390]

Thanks for the tips, purrin. Personally, I do not have the resources to build my own speakers or subs (though I've always wanted to and probably will down the road). I would imagine that many others would be in the same boat.
 
I agree that lack of knowledge isn't a proper excuse for lack of creativity. I was trying more to emphasize that it's very difficult to know where to start, where to go from there, what knowledge is applicable, what isn't, etc. As you've said, typical designs won't work so well for the T50RP. That's another big hurdle, as most of the reading and studying I've done on sound generally deals with typical designs and such.
 
Do you have any particular books or websites that you've found to be great resources? That's another problem. With the internet, there is SO much information around...and a lot of it is junk. 

 

[LFF]

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Thanks for the tips, purrin. Personally, I do not have the resources to build my own speakers or subs (though I've always wanted to and probably will down the road). I would imagine that many others would be in the same boat.
 
I agree that lack of knowledge isn't a proper excuse for lack of creativity. I was trying more to emphasize that it's very difficult to know where to start, where to go from there, what knowledge is applicable, what isn't, etc. As you've said, typical designs won't work so well for the T50RP. That's another big hurdle, as most of the reading and studying I've done on sound generally deals with typical designs and such.
 
Do you have any particular books or websites that you've found to be great resources? That's another problem. With the internet, there is SO much information around...and a lot of it is junk. 

 
Here you go.

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574226/educating-yourself-about-audio

 

[E3SEL]

Hi guys, I am wondering something. I am trying out different mods on my T50's, and both channels are modded differently. One of the channels (left) seems to play the music clean, but the mid-range is a little recessed (is that the correct term for when one part of the spectrum is not as loud as it should be?). The other channel (right) plays pretty much the same, but with less bass, and the rest louder, but it seems to have this one continuous dirty sound to it. I don't know how to explain it, but it seems like every song I try has this harshness to it. Does the left channel not have this noise that I am hearing in the right channel, simply because it is not playing all the frequencies loud enough, and something is missing, or is the left channel just superior to the right? The right channel also seems to sound like that of a sennheiser hd650.

 

[wdahm519]

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I didn't authorize the release of my monkey/play-doh recipe

 
I've built a couple of TP inspired clones but I don't think I'm getting the most out of this driver. I can't help but think this driver wants a little larger enclosure. My next step is to make a couple of cups with these...
 
http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Daddios-1-75-Aluminum-Hemisphere/dp/B0041TKJKC
 
I'll probably start sealed and go from there.
 

 
You still need cup slots (ports) so you can tweak them to get L/R balance.
 
 

 

[RexAeterna]

Here's a tip regarding tuning the bass. The same exact principles used in designing and tuning speaker (sub) woofers apply.

i been trying to tell these guys this for months but i gave up(i didn't say subs though. i mention speaker acoustics applies to headphones as well instead). now they listen. ohhh, gee-wilikers, i wonder why. i sir, so do, why. i guess cause i'm not anyone special. just some crazy guy with a pony avatar. i bet if my avatar was someone respectful like albert einstein they be like ''man that guy uber smart. he's an albert einstein fan!'' awwww, yea boi!

i love the program you found though. it's new to me and i can see that helping a lot with people. i usually just eye-ball things and just listen.

 

[shrimants]

See my primary concern isnt even with the sound. i held them up to my head and the previous modder did enough to them to make them nice sounding. No, my primary concern is making them fit on my head. I just took my last test today so i'll probably start modding the T50RP over the course of the next couple weeks. First I'll lift them up with either headband mod or DIY headband cushions. next i'll get those srh-840 pads on them and see how they sound, plus i'll reterminate that cable. Only then will I sit through and listen to my "field testing" albums and figure out what i'd like to change and whatnot.

EDIT: cool idea: what if you designed like a mini horn for the driver and used that as the earcups? I think about weird things sometimes.

 

[LFF]

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i been trying to tell these guys this for months but i gave up(i didn't say subs though. i mention speaker acoustics applies to headphones as well instead). now they listen. ohhh, gee-wilikers, i wonder why. i sir, so do, why. i guess cause i'm not anyone special. just some crazy guy with a pony avatar. i bet if my avatar was someone respectful like albert einstein they be like ''man that guy uber smart. he's an albert einstein fan!'' awwww, yea boi!
i love the program you found though. it's new to me and i can see that helping a lot with people. i usually just eye-ball things and just listen.

Your new avatar:
 

 

 

[Vaughn]

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You still need cup slots (ports) so you can tweak them to get L/R balance.
 
 

Not sure I really follow this statement...
 
Ports, in a traditional speaker design anyway, are designed to take the back wave of a speaker and invert it at approximately the resonant frequency of the particular driver being used. This port then takes this inverted back wave and vents it into the room, adding a few db to the response at those frequencies. This is what gives a typical ported speaker a bump in the response in the frequency range around where the port is tuned with a more rapid drop off below this frequency. Poorly designed speakers like this will have an excessive midbass hump and sound like crap, i.e. most mass market speakers and a large number of headphones.
 
I'm not totally sure how this works when porting a headphone as it is somewhat like porting a speaker in an infinite baffle, with the vent in another room where the back wave isn't being added to the front wave.
 
A sealed design will characteristically have a slower roll of to deep bass without any hump.
 
As far as tweaking a sealed design for L/R balance it would be down to the amount and type of stuffing.

 

[hans030390]

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Here you go.

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574226/educating-yourself-about-audio

Proof that I spend too much time in just the full-sized headphones section of the forum...Thanks for pointing that out!
 

 

[hans030390]

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i been trying to tell these guys this for months but i gave up(i didn't say subs though. i mention speaker acoustics applies to headphones as well instead). now they listen. ohhh, gee-wilikers, i wonder why. i sir, so do, why. i guess cause i'm not anyone special. just some crazy guy with a pony avatar. i bet if my avatar was someone respectful like albert einstein they be like ''man that guy uber smart. he's an albert einstein fan!'' awwww, yea boi!
i love the program you found though. it's new to me and i can see that helping a lot with people. i usually just eye-ball things and just listen.

But you don't have a pony avatar...