Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!

[mrspeakers]

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I put everything together and the sound that really impressed me the night before was back! It's not the Aska foam and it's much lighter, but just as thin, but not hard. Why would that make such a difference? The mids are now sooooo good and maybe a little forward it seems like. The treble hasn't really been changed much. The sound is now fairly balanced and everything sounds natural. Bright songs that would drive me crazy on any headphone, still do. I want that. The bass is now not bloated and as good as I remembered. The bass is so good on these and makes my HD-650's bass almost like a joke. What's funny about these headphones is how clear they are.
 
Unfortunately my ears are now ringing and tired due to all this modding. I'll be able to listen to them more tomorrow. For some reason adding that foam was what caused the biggest difference in the sound! I tried some pillow stuffing but that was terrible and drowned out the mids somehow.
 
It's really quite amazing how every tiny thing, no matter how small can change the sound.
 
EDIT:
 
I don't know if this is my imagination, but it seemed like whenever I added more material to the cups, the mids would come forward a little more. Only when I added that foam (nearly touching the driver) did they sound extremely good. They may be very very slightly too forward now. Maybe if I trimmed a little off the foam, the mids will be less forward. I'll see tomorrow. It could be they sounded too forward because my ears were just ringing and I'm tired. I'm going to try these for gaming too, just for my own amusement.

I know what you mean re: the 650 and bass.  My 650's just don't get picked up for use anymore.  You raised tons of issues, too many to comment on, but a couple of suggestions from one who has also lost a lot of sleep in this process, and who has been "done" multiple times.
 
1) If you had a channel cutout, it's possibly the rotation of the locking cable, or a bit of corrosion or debris in the jack.  Happened to mine before I figured that out.  A few insertions and roatations seemed to polish it up and no more problems.
 
2) You'll never be done.  Live with it.  
 
3) You are using a lot of materials that haven't been discussed, so it's very hard to give feedback.  Photos would help should you ever really want feedback...
 
4) I have found now that even some "bright" songs that used to bug me no longer sound bright, but other songs don't sound muted.  I'm not sure what's behind that.  My theory is that so many 'phones have so much top end sizzle and distortion increasing brightness that a small excess of energy overlays extra distortion to tip the sound into become irritating.  Without the injection of HF distortion, that extra brightness is there, but not to the level that annoys me. David Bowie's "Heroes" has always been a favorite song, but it's not been easy to listen to due to excess brightness.  With the "Rastapants" mod completed, it's surprisingly quite smooth.  
 
5) From your description of the foam you picked, I would guess it's an open cell structure.  If you can blow "through" it with ease, it's probably not doing much which is why you need a lot.  The Akasa foam is moderately open cell, so it does a good job sucking up energy and preventing reflections from the back of the cup.  If you are having to fill the cup with your foam, it's probably less acoustically damping, so you need more (if it's closed cell and I'm not sure what's going on at all!).  A lot of foam will decrease the volume of the cup, and drive up the F3 (low frequency cutoff), so you'll want to make the vent as open as possible.  Just my guess based on your description, I could be TOTALLY wrong about the foam...  
 
6)  With rastapants, because the driver is open to my ear, I had to actually reduce the vent to tune the bass for optimum extension and clarity.  Foam and what's directly in front of and behind the driver have a huge effect on what the vent is accomplishing.  Electrical tape on the outside of the vent is an easy way to tune the bass (and has a big effect on midrange).
 
7) Plasticine (modeling clay) is a lot denser and therefore more effective at killing resonance in the front baffle than blue tak.  It's worth the $5 to buy a chunk of modeling clay.
 
Lastly, if your ears are ringing, I seriously suggest you turn it down.  That should never happen, it causes temporary or permanent damage with every occurance.   Your ears will easily adjust to a "new normal" after a short while, to make lower volume sound fine.  Protect your ears to enjoy your phones longer...  Sorry, can't help myself on this one.  Hearing loss is forever...

 

[dorkvader]

@ leeperry: Thanks, I will definately try that. I suppose it's similar to the grados in that respect. Once I bent the headband on my SR-225i, they fit much better. I will do that here.
@ Graphicism: could be a sensitivity issue (t50RP has 98 dB/mW, which isn't low, unless you compare with IEM's) or maybe it's a property of them being Orthodynamic (I see people say "slower" a lot, or it could be damping, a whole number of reasons. I say: enjoy it as an added benefit.
 
I still don't have an amp available. I build a CMOY ages ago, but it has pretty low current capability, and is an underperformer all 'round. I'll probably re-appropriate the parts into something more worthwhile. Because of this, I'm pretty impressed with these headphones performance unamped.
 
I notice that if I jiggle the plug the channels drop out, which is pretty disconcerting. I wondered what was causing it while I was walking, then I realized the plug was twisted about 20 degrees. I assume this is normal, and I will probably replace the jack sometime. Any recommendations? is it possible or reasonable to switch to a mini-XLR? I'm just curious.
 
I'll probably start taking them apart and playing with damping somewhat further down the line, but I'm really happy thus far. At the moment, I'd say I enjoy them more than my SR-225i, though this may be for the novelty factor.

 

[Graphicism]

I've been listening to these all evening and just sent Audeze the inevitable email... bloody head-fi!

 

[turimbar1]

ok so ive put in the paxmate into one cup, the dimpled plasticine is in the other (I like doing the mods to one side then evaluating it against the pre-mod side) and the resounding conclusion is: I dont know which one is better the paxmate side sounded more clear at first, then it sounded less sharp or detailed or quieter or muffled (so says my cousin who blindly listened to it and compared the sides, I think that is too harsh) and then I kinda could tell very little difference between them. this is probably not the best way to compare mods because of stereo sound.... but it is the easiest way. I did notice that the cups with paxmate in it vibrates more than the plasticine one, which is as dead as a steak. 
 
Putting the tape over the 3/4 of the grills was the best mod today as it made the bass less boomy and more tight as well as tightening up the mids and even the highs, taking the felt off of the front of the driver brought out the highs and made it more crisp, perhaps too crisp, idk. I can only mod successfully when I have a good source, which is my cousins gaming computer (he has an auzen bravura soundcard with changeable op-amps) so I cannot get a hold of it very often. dying to get the nfb 12.

 

[leeperry]

I have found now that even some "bright" songs that used to bug me no longer sound bright, but other songs don't sound muted.  I'm not sure what's behind that.  My theory is that so many 'phones have so much top end sizzle and distortion increasing brightness that a small excess of energy overlays extra distortion to tip the sound into become irritating.  Without the injection of HF distortion, that extra brightness is there, but not to the level that annoys me. David Bowie's "Heroes" has always been a favorite song, but it's not been easy to listen to due to excess brightness.  With the "Rastapants" mod completed, it's surprisingly quite smooth.

I'd hate to beat a dead horse, but IMHO you shouldn't try to only rely on damping to attenuate ear canal resonances:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

http://www.davidgriesinger.com/headphones.htm

"the coupling of high frequencies to the eardrum varies greatly among individuals. It is influenced by the volume of the concha, the diameter and geometry of the ear canal, the eardrum impedance and other factors. Lacking probe microphone measurements at the eardrum, the best way to equalize a headphone is by listening."

I've got 2 major resonances at 6400Hz and 9700Hz, whatever headphones I use. Damping my T50RP has allowed me to EQ them down by far less than w/ your usual dynamic, but there's no miracle happening...to completely attenuate them, I'd have to make the sound muffled as hell.

 

[MDR30]

Dear Mr Wualta,
I've never really known if my T50RP has the old or new pads. Let your wisdom speak.
 
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Our Russian friend PDOT showed us the new pads in early 2008, so we suspect the switchover was earlier than that, probably mid-2007. It might have been even earlier; we just don't know. So any headphone from 2008 should be fine, assuming the pads are original.
As maverickronin says, the old pads had a delicate, papery surface texture and were very lightweight, with a squarish cross section. Rumor has it that the old pads had a durability problem in pro use, thus the switch. Whether Fostex actually intended to reveal the bass capabilities of the new tiny driver, we'll never know. MR is also correct in saying that the only thing "Mk 2" about the current T50RP is the pads. The headphone itself hasn't changed since its intro 9 years ago, not in any significant way, at least.

 

 

 

[leeperry]

v1 for sure.

 

[wilyodysseus]

if my T50RP has the old or new pads.

The v2 pads are completely smooth.

 

[Nachkebia]

I just got my pair, can anyone please direct me to page where it is explained step by step, preferably with pictures how to mod them? Thaanks!

 

[wilyodysseus]

A few pages back in this thread, I was almost ready to give up on my T50rp. I'm happy to report that the Silverstone foam (which looks identical to the Paxmate foam) made all the difference. It may be possible to improve these further, but they're impressive enough that I'm just going to listen to the music for a while. My final configuration is pretty simple compared to some of the elaborate things I tried:

1. a thick layer of Blu-tack on the inside baffle
2. Silverstone foam covering most inner surfaces of the cups

Everything else, including the pads and vent covering, is stock. I'm curious to try the O2 or Sony pads at some point, but the stock pads aren't bad.

At the moment, I prefer the modded T50rp over anything else I own, and I've indefinitely delayed my D7000 purchase.

 

[mrspeakers]

I'd hate to beat a dead horse, but IMHO you shouldn't try to only rely on damping to attenuate ear canal resonances:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

http://www.davidgriesinger.com/headphones.htm

"the coupling of high frequencies to the eardrum varies greatly among individuals. It is influenced by the volume of the concha, the diameter and geometry of the ear canal, the eardrum impedance and other factors. Lacking probe microphone measurements at the eardrum, the best way to equalize a headphone is by listening."

I've got 2 major resonances at 6400Hz and 9700Hz, whatever headphones I use. Damping my T50RP has allowed me to EQ them down by far less than w/ your usual dynamic, but there's no miracle happening...to completely attenuate them, I'd have to make the sound muffled as hell.

I agree, though there is also ear/baffle reflection, which you can control.

But what I am referencing is two factors which we can effect: backwave resonances from cup to driver via abrorbtive material in the cup, and also the actual interaction of felt or other materials on driver frequency response via damping and filtering Lastly, the theory bit was simply that by having less distortion in the upper register, music that has more HF energy won't be as annoying.

 

[wualta]

The gentlemen who've responded are correct. Those certainly look like the original-style pads. Not to worry, though. You can modify the stock pads (if you can, just cover them with something thicker and watch for air leaks between pad and baffle) while you look around for suitable replacements. Or make your own, as several people have. Or surgically remove the fairy-cake foam inside the stock pads and replace it with something more subtantial, e.g., built-up layers of cloth.
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if my T50RP has the old or new pads.

The v2 pads are completely smooth.

 

 

[MDR30]

Well, once I decide to put the T50RP on the work bench (so many other victims are still waiting in line) I'll certainly keep that in mind. The newer pads seem not to be available as parts?
 
Another promising candidate is the DT48 pad, taped or glued to the cup. They seem to be of both perfect size and quality, and reasonably priced to add.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

ok so ive put in the paxmate into one cup, the dimpled plasticine is in the other (I like doing the mods to one side then evaluating it against the pre-mod side) and the resounding conclusion is: I dont know which one is better the paxmate side sounded more clear at first, then it sounded less sharp or detailed or quieter or muffled (so says my cousin who blindly listened to it and compared the sides, I think that is too harsh) and then I kinda could tell very little difference between them. this is probably not the best way to compare mods because of stereo sound.... but it is the easiest way. I did notice that the cups with paxmate in it vibrates more than the plasticine one, which is as dead as a steak. 

I don't know if you can stick stuff to that plasticine but it might be worth a try.  I've got the Akasa on top of Dynamat in mine and the results are pretty awesome.

 

[tdockweiler]

I wish I had just gotten the Akasa foam when I ordered the T50RP. If you are planning on modding it, I'd suggest this first. I don't know if it will make a huge improvement, but I think it will. When I used a combination of felt+blu-tack the results were nothing special. I took out the cutout of foam I had in there and put in a larger circle of foam and the sound was better. It was a round piece from an AKG earpad. It's very thin. I do think it sounded a tad better when I had a little less foam in there. A few strips instead of the larger cutout. I guess it need more air in there to sound good.
 
I think my allergies are what caused my hearing problems lately. I'm really congested and it's affected my ears. I'll have to not listen to headphones for a few days. It seems to be counter-productive to mod when my allergies are bothering me.
 
One thing I noticed is that several times when I put different materials in there it  degraded the sound clarity. It often seemed a bit more muffled when I put in LESS material (without the foam though and just blu-tack and Felt). When I added too much of that thick foam the sound clarity seemed to improve. My guess is that when I redo everything from scratch with that Akasa Foam the sound clarity will be at it's best. I hope so! I also tried dampening the back of the driver itself, but that just made the sound more muffled. Tried both types of tape and even some felt.
 
I might remove the blu-tack and use some of that modeling clay instead and see if that helps.
 
Perhaps my felt was not good enough, but it seems like it did almost nothing. I could have sworn it sounded the same with just blu-tack. Maybe the felt wasn't thick enough. I'm thinking that foam instead of felt is an absolute MUST. Perhaps people are using better felt than what I have or maybe I didn't use enough. I had about two layers in there plus the Blu-tack.
 
So I guess I will remove everything and use only Akasa foam in the cups (with the blu-tack in the baffle). I hope I like the results.
 
It'd be interesting to hear the difference between a pair modded with just Akasa foam and a pair that's modded with just Blu-Tack and Felt. I bet the difference will be huge. It just seems like the felt is doing absolutely nothing, but even the cheapest foam is much more noticeable. I do wish there was an alternative to the Akasa foam that's basically the same thing and found locally. I haven't found any other sound dampening materials for computer computers yet. I bet that would work, but it's probably too thick.