[tomb]

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They're significantly better when powered by a good amp.  Better freq response, instrument separation, etc.
 

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How do these sound amped compared to unamped?

Just MHO - I love orthos and have heard some modded versions that were as good as any headphone I've ever heard.
 
However ... the Fostex T50rp's sound like crap, period - out of the box.  (I've probably said the same thing in this thread somewhere a couple of times.)  Don't expect anything different.  You need to mod them to make them even listenable from a Head-Fi or audiophile standard - amp or not.
 
 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

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They're significantly better when powered by a good amp.  Better freq response, instrument separation, etc.
 

I disagree.  IMO and IMPE there's little difference with them as long as you're not clipping (within its voltage and current capabilities) - and you're using a decent player to begin with.  I use them straight out of my Clip+ more often than I bother amping them; it has enough power for normal listening volumes.
 
That is unless you're using a deliberately colored amp.

 

[DeathDomokun]

They're fine straight from your Clip+?
They seem pretty efficient going by specs, and I'm thinking about buying some woodied T50RP's and am unsure as to whether the improvement in SQ warrants buying an amp to go with it.

 

[kingoftown1]

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I disagree.  IMO and IMPE there's little difference with them as long as you're not clipping (within its voltage and current capabilities) - and you're using a decent player to begin with.  I use them straight out of my Clip+ more often than I bother amping them; it has enough power for normal listening volumes.
 
That is unless you're using a deliberately colored amp.

I do not use a colored amp.  Also, I'm sure you know that volume does not necessarily equal a headphone being properly driven.
 
That being said, after my first O2 build I had a friend with no prior "audiophile" headphone/amp experience sit down and listen to my modded T50RP, HD650, and AKG K272 mkII out of both the O2 and the Audinst's headphone out.  Without my saying anything, he preferred the O2 every time.  I also found the differences to be pretty obvious--especially with the AKGs.
 
And no, the Audinst doesn't have a deliberately colored amp section--it just doesn't have the same power and clarity as a better, more powerful amp.
 
 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

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I do not use a colored amp.  Also, I'm sure you know that volume does not necessarily equal a headphone being properly driven.
 
That being said, after my first O2 build I had a friend with no prior "audiophile" headphone/amp experience sit down and listen to my modded T50RP, HD650, and AKG K272 mkII out of both the O2 and the Audinst's headphone out.  Without my saying anything, he preferred the O2 every time.  I also found the differences to be pretty obvious--especially with the AKGs.
 
And no, the Audinst doesn't have a deliberately colored amp section--it just doesn't have the same power and clarity as a better, more powerful amp.
 
 

Thing is, power doesn't mean anything if the headphone doesn't demand it - as a headphone (or any load) will draw the current it needs to reach the voltage it's being driven at, or cause current clipping while it's trying to do so.  Current clipping is a really nasty thing to hear (and for your speakers), and unless that happens you're not clipping when you're coming straight out of a portable player (as they can't voltage clip on your own unless you do something really funky).
 
In the T50RP case, it runs out of voltage before current on the Clip+.  Thus, it's "properly driven" as long as the maximum volume (voltage swing) with just the Clip+ is enough for you.  The T50RP isn't a nasty load either, which could otherwise have its own consequences as far as how the amp handles it - ruler flat impedance means it is like just running the output through an ideal load - a resistor.  In fact, that's exactly what it's doing.
 
As far as clarity - again, I just don't think there's any significant difference at all between most well-designed (and that is a feat in itself of course) solid state amps. 

 

[Currawong]

BlackBeardBen: Seriously, go and say what you posted to people who design and build amps, for a living or not.  While what you say seems logical, and probably seems correct to you, it's just factually wrong. An amp isn't just about how much voltage it can send out. A music signal is not the same as a mathematical calculation. Go and study how amps work and then come back because, seriously, you're just spreading misinformation.

 

[kingoftown1]

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Thing is, power doesn't mean anything if the headphone doesn't demand it - as a headphone (or any load) will draw the current it needs to reach the voltage it's being driven at, or cause current clipping while it's trying to do so.  Current clipping is a really nasty thing to hear (and for your speakers), and unless that happens you're not clipping when you're coming straight out of a portable player (as they can't voltage clip on your own unless you do something really funky).
 
In the T50RP case, it runs out of voltage before current on the Clip+.  Thus, it's "properly driven" as long as the maximum volume (voltage swing) with just the Clip+ is enough for you.  The T50RP isn't a nasty load either, which could otherwise have its own consequences as far as how the amp handles it - ruler flat impedance means it is like just running the output through an ideal load - a resistor.  In fact, that's exactly what it's doing.
 
As far as clarity - again, I just don't think there's any significant difference at all between most well-designed (and that is a feat in itself of course) solid state amps. 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to how power hungry the Fostex is then

 
 

 

[hans030390]

I find my modded T50RP to be pretty demanding when it comes to reaching a good volume, at least from my small collection of equipment. They do not get very loud from my S:Flo 2. With properly recorded and mastered material, sometimes I need to turn my volume up all the way on my Auztentech Bravura to get it where I want (not ear-splitting!). 

 

[Magick Man]

They're very greedy little buggers. They need good, clean power if you want to get the best out of them. My EF5 grabs them by the scruff and makes them give over the goods.

 

[mrspeakers]

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I find my modded T50RP to be pretty demanding when it comes to reaching a good volume, at least from my small collection of equipment. They do not get very loud from my S:Flo 2. With properly recorded and mastered material, sometimes I need to turn my volume up all the way on my Auztentech Bravura to get it where I want (not ear-splitting!). 

Many of the mods involve absorbing energy inside the cup that in the stock form simply bounces around and excites the membrane, which is why the efficiency drops.  The drop is enough that if you try to power the phones off a low power device, anything above gentle volumes clips anyhow, so an amp is really a good idea for this reason alone.  
 
I suggest we stay away from the whole question of does power matter if you're not clipping, etc, there are plenty of discussions in sound science on that, and they get rather flame-ish.

 

[proid]

After many mods, although my T50RP sounds very good, i still find bass is the most annoying to fix because i like tight, deep, hard hitting bass and my pairs sound a little boomby. With the suggestion of RexAterna and LFF, i read a lot in the orthodynamic thread and find out that the most important thing is to absorb backwave in the cup which will go through the diagraph and cancel the specific frequency. This often make "bass canceling" so to get deep bass, i must find something to absorb low frequency in the cup. I continue to search about acoustic treatment in speaker and found a lot solution: fiber glass, bass trap, etc ... I tried to stuff fiber glass in the cup and it just work like cotton. Fiber glass is very good to absorb mid and high but to absorb low, you need to make it thicker and with bass trap, to get perfect low absorb, you need to place bass trap a distance from the wall that equal to 1000feet/[(the frequency you want to absorb).4], that's 12.5 feet if you want to absorb 20hz, just impossible to work in the small space. And then, i found the Helmholtz resonator, which is the most effective way to absorb low frequency, and i saw some one mention about cardboard to absorb behind the driver. Then i just tried and have no idea that it will work but guys, it work great!!! Before the mod, bass is a little boomby and mellow, it extend well to 30hz but i only can barely hear 25hz. After the mod, bass is tight, fast, attack is much better, now it extend to 25hz easily. Great, great great !!!! Here are some pictures:
 

 
I use 4 layers of dryer sheet at the back of the driver
 

 
1 layer of fiberglass and 1 layer of filter wool work best for me
 

 
My Helmholtz resonator, look stupid but it work!
 

 
I just got enough space to use 2 sheet of cardboard or cup won't close.
 

 
Dryer sheet -> filter wool -> fiberglass
 

 
Have a listen 

I will try with better material and place larger Helmholtz resonator in the cup if i could but right now, it sound so gooood!!
P/s: Sorry, my english suck 

 

[wje]

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They're fine straight from your Clip+?
They seem pretty efficient going by specs, and I'm thinking about buying some woodied T50RP's and am unsure as to whether the improvement in SQ warrants buying an amp to go with it.

I'd suggest that you listen long and hard to a pair of wooden Fostex before dropping the coin.  Sure, they look better - wood looks better in most cases.  However, the variations of modifications applied to just the plastic cups alone have made some tremendous strides.  In the end, if you're opting for the wooden version, keep in mind that you're paying all the extra money for just the wood.  Keeping it in perspective, the headphones are just $85.00 headphones with some of the right modifications performed.  There has also been some debate and discussion between the T20RP and the T50RP.  It is believed that the T50RP sounds better, even though they use the same drivers - yet, the limiting factor of the T20RP is because of the cup volume of the T20RP, which is smaller.  If you look at the wooden versions, the wood shell has to be constructed properly.  If there's not enough volume available, they may not sound as good as the plastic cup variations.
 

 

[BGRoberts]

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I'd suggest that you listen long and hard to a pair of wooden Fostex before dropping the coin.  Sure, they look better - wood looks better in most cases.  However, the variations of modifications applied to just the plastic cups alone have made some tremendous strides.  In the end, if you're opting for the wooden version, keep in mind that you're paying all the extra money for just the wood..........

Good point.
I LOVE the looks of the wooden cups.  But if they don't significantly improve the sound, they're an expensive cosmetic upgrade.  That should be considered when thinking about going woodie on the Fostex's.
Just my $.02
 
 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

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BlackBeardBen: Seriously, go and say what you posted to people who design and build amps, for a living or not.  While what you say seems logical, and probably seems correct to you, it's just factually wrong. An amp isn't just about how much voltage it can send out. A music signal is not the same as a mathematical calculation. Go and study how amps work and then come back because, seriously, you're just spreading misinformation.

Yes, a music signal is precisely a "mathematical calculation" - a summation of sine waves, varying over time...
 
Yes, there's more than voltage and current output to an amp, of course.  Output impedance, coupling of loads, various forms of distortion, noise caused by power supply quality, potentiometer quality, circuit layout, etc., etc., etc.  Thing is, for well designed amps none of those are a problem (or are minimal at best) in terms of audibility.  That includes the Clip+'s amp section, whose primary problem is finite voltage and current capabilities.
 
Look, you don't have to build amps for a living to understand this premise.  As far as an end user is concerned, the results are what is important - and that's what I'm going after.  I don't mean to belittle amp designers at all - I know it is a very difficult task to do and to do well.

 

[fishski13]

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Yes, a music signal is precisely a "mathematical calculation" - a summation of sine waves, varying over time...
 
Yes, there's more than voltage and current output to an amp, of course.  Output impedance, coupling of loads, various forms of distortion, noise caused by power supply quality, potentiometer quality, circuit layout, etc., etc., etc.  Thing is, for well designed amps none of those are a problem (or are minimal at best) in terms of audibility.  That includes the Clip+'s amp section, whose primary problem is finite voltage and current capabilities.
 
Look, you don't have to build amps for a living to understand this premise.  As far as an end user is concerned, the results are what is important - and that's what I'm going after.  I don't mean to belittle amp designers at all - I know it is a very difficult task to do and to do well.

 
i thought the Sound Science forum was created to help stop the constant thread crapping.  it gets old.  BBB, welcome to my ignore list.