[dj nellie]

That's somewhat worrying to hear, given that I just ordered the 16s

But based on the near-universal satisfaction expressed by 16 owners, let's hope that this was just a faulty demo pair. Others who have heard the 16 demos didn't note that it sounded much worse than the 13s. It seems that demos of the 16s are hard to find right now, at least in my part of the states.

 

[Sonic 748i]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortisFlyer75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a quick observation from my experience today... After a eagerly awaited four months of initially gunning for 13 pros from the 13 pro threads on here, the 16pros and UE18's have since come along and finally went to my UK dealer today now funds in place to demo them all and get my impressions done and make my choice and get the order in. Duration of listening time; 3 hours Source; Sony X with wav files ONLY. Tested; -------- JH5, 10, 11pro, 13pro & 16 pro demo's UE18's demo. Listened to all the JH range in numerical order from the base model and all sounded good until i got to the finale of the much anticipated JH16 pros and everything suddenly stopped in it's tracks as they did not sound right even two minutes in of listening and after 20 minutes described the SQ to the UK dealer who all experienced the same sound as i did and concurred with me that i was not going mad and they are now sending them back to JHA for assesment to see if they are faulty or not, so am in limbo on what my choice will be as after my previous experience of just universals they all sounded good and got better with each step up i took until i got to the 16's. It seemed the 16 sound compared to the 13's even though the 16's immediately had more bass emphases to be heard and went a lot deeper it was at times a distorted bass and the soundstage was a lot narrower to the 13's with loss of detail on a worrying scale and had a congested feel to it with no air around the intruments like the 13's had, so i take it the 16's are not meant to sound like this even compared to the 13's as i was under the impression the 16's are meant to retain the clarity, detail and everything that is good in the 13's with just more headroom to be had out of the 16's on top? Anyone else had this experience or can clarify and reasure me this is not the normal 16 sound? For note yes i realize these are just generic demo versions and not custom molds specific to my ear's but all the other demo's sounded great and to put it into context the JH11pros sounded better than the 16 demo's i listened to. Plus i listened to it with wav files only on my Sony X and the guys at my UK dealer said they had all experienced the same type of sound signature (two of them sound mixing engineers) and they used different sources to me so know it is not just my player. My initial impressions though was how good the UE18's are and how much closer the 11pros are to the 13pros than i imagined they would be and am wandering even though the 13's are better in terms of micro details, clarity and soundstage is it worth shelling out the extra $250? The UE18's sounded like the 13pro's to me in a neutral sense but with the extra added bass depth which is how i thought the JH16's would sound. The 18's had a good tempo to it with a natural sense of timing and sounded quite balanced and neutral but with the bass depth giving it a punchy feel at the same time, but cannot quite remember if the soundstage was any bigger than the 13's which impressed me for a pair of in ear monitors. I am despite the current 16 demos excluded whilst awaiting autopsy report from JHA enjoyed even the 11pros not to of 100% ruled it out and enjoyed the 13's and UE18's a lot but just need to hear the 16's if they where faulty, in their true intended sound before making my choice. If that is the true sound of the 16's as Jerry intended it to be (hope not) i will have to say it was for me a disappointing experience and would then be opting for either the UE18's or JH13's which would be a hard call still. One thing for sure i enjoyed my experience today and wish i had gone down the customs route a long time ago and just look forward to whichever one i go with eventually even if it is not the 16's or dare i say even a JHpro at all? Such a long wait and now it feels like it has gone into overtime waiting to pull the trigger on a custom! ........fast forward time please.

Thanks for the write up! Interesting...

 

[FortisFlyer75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj nellie /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's somewhat worrying to hear, given that I just ordered the 16s But based on the near-universal satisfaction expressed by 16 owners, let's hope that this was just a faulty demo pair. Others who have heard the 16 demos didn't note that it sounded much worse than the 13s. It seems that demos of the 16s are hard to find right now, at least in my part of the states.

I would not read to much into it as my personal gut feeling after been dazzled by all the demos i heard today it just did not sound right from the word go with the 16 demo's and just hope and praying that even with the good QC at JHA i hear about it was just an honest mistake them escaping the fold with all the mega busy rush they had on since the 16 orders went mad.

I just thought the sound i heard from the UE18's was like the JH13's with added bass emphasis and can only imagine that is how the 16's should of/ are meant to be like not the recessed narrow, congested and non layered distorting bass reproduction i heard even with the fact it is primarily meant for pro musicians on stage with more headroom, i am guessing this is not even how stage performers would want to hear them sound.

I am confident these are unfortunately not quite right somehow, and the rest of the guys at my UK dealer had the same conclusion about them as i did and guess when a customer concurred that same experience as they had they then must of felt, well if the customer agrees it sounds off then back they go and await an autopsy report from Jerry on them.

If they are fit and healthy and are meant to sound like i have heard them, then fair enough i am the first person to slag the 16's off! lol
but again i am confident with also reading all these field reports that the sound of the 16's should maintain a lot of quality's of what i heard in the 13's just with more headroom and i am pretty sure Jerry himself would not trade clarity, soundstage, detail for a quick fix of deeper end bass presence alone.

I hope i am right as i am very cautious about going with Logitech and their customer service side of things and for that reason alone do not want to go down the Logitech route, but have to say i forgot that though whilst listening to the UE18's which really dazzled me and have to say i was impressed with them, so i really do hope and pray the 16pro does sound more like that which would then make my decision very easy

Just means i've got to wait another bloody week or two before i can put my order in!

It really is torture now. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic 748i /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the write up! Interesting...

No probs. (plus above statement in addition^^)

 

[ftt]

I ordered my JH16's a week ago and while I'm waiting I had a couple quick questions. First, what is JH's stance on wearing customs at the gym - specifically does sweat cause any problems (corrosion to connector, etc)?

Secondly, if you have a balanced TWAG cable can you use it with a non-balanced source (say you don't want to bring your Protector with you, can you play out of a 3GS headphone jack or would you need to swap cables?)

 

[OPTiK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortisFlyer75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seemed the 16 sound compared to the 13's even though the 16's immediately had more bass emphases to be heard and went a lot deeper it was at times a distorted bass and the soundstage was a lot narrower to the 13's with loss of detail on a worrying scale and had a congested feel to it with no air around the intruments like the 13's had, so i take it the 16's are not meant to sound like this even compared to the 13's as i was under the impression the 16's are meant to retain the clarity, detail and everything that is good in the 13's with just more headroom to be had out of the 16's on top? Anyone else had this experience or can clarify and reasure me this is not the normal 16 sound?

What were you listening to that sounded distorted/congested? I listened to a few different genres and I never heard distortion on my 16's before I sent them in for a refit.

 

[Navea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ordered my JH16's a week ago and while I'm waiting I had a couple quick questions. First, what is JH's stance on wearing customs at the gym - specifically does sweat cause any problems (corrosion to connector, etc)? Secondly, if you have a balanced TWAG cable can you use it with a non-balanced source (say you don't want to bring your Protector with you, can you play out of a 3GS headphone jack or would you need to swap cables?)

The sweat will cause problems if it enters the iem canal and down to the drivers. But there is three filters in the canal that will help prevent sweat going down to the drivers. But i wouldn't do this if you know that you will sweat a lot from the ears.

About the TWag cable, you can buy an adaptor for the balanced cable to use with single ended amps.

 

[FortisFlyer75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPTiK /img/forum/go_quote.gif What were you listening to that sounded distorted/congested? I listened to a few different genres and I never heard distortion on my 16's before I sent them in for a refit.

Everything!

I primarily listened to blues, rock, dance, pop & a bit of classical for the session all in WAV files (some discs also japanese pressings) with Sony X with all settings and EQ off which i always do anyway.

I almost felt embarrassed describing the poor sound to my UK dealer which actually deals in hiring out professional sound equipment to the music and television industry and have professional musicians go in there for customs and fittings and the director and another guy there are pro sound mixing engineers by trade and when i had finished explaining the sound after hearing the 16's to the 13's they said they all had the same experience and with different sources to me so they are going back to JHA for assessment.

Shame as i now have to wait for the 16's demos if faulty to come back so i can have a proper comparison test between the 13's and 16's (& UE18's) all over again before i can finally choose and order one.
Oh well, waited four months, another week or two won't hurt! lol

 

[tompoll]

Okay, I sent my "dull and lackluster" 16s to JH Audio and received them back in 8 days. Very interesting stuff happened!

The change in sound is fascinating. Something clearly went wrong with the initial manufacture of my 16s. Before, the tips (internal ends) were open. I could see three tubes coming out from the drivers, but the tubes were of varying length, and the internal cavity of the earphone was open and exposed.

This is my first pair of custom phones, so I didn't know if they were supposed to be like that or not. I thought it would be pretty easy for that whole cavity to collect gunk, so it didn't seem quite right, but what did I know?

Now that I have them back, the ends are completely sealed off except for small holes for the three tubes (the triple bore). JH Audio clearly cut off the last 1/2 inch or so of the tips and redid them, as I can see seams where the cuts were made. Mind you, the seams are very well done and undetectable to the touch.

You can probably imagine what effect this "finishing of the tip" has had on the sound. Now I see why jude was taken aback my my use of words like "dull" and "lackluster." The mids and highs are now full, pristine, accurate, and stunningly beautiful. And yet the change has had no major effect on the full and beautifully detailed bass I originally had. In other words, these things are now exceeding the lofty expectations I had.

Now I understand the incredibly accurate words jude so carefully chose to describe the bass in his review. It isn't really an increased quantity of bass I'm hearing--rather it's an extended richness and presence in the bass that I've never heard before. I find it quite visceral and exciting.

When listening to something acoustic, like symphonic music or some Pat Metheny Trio, every detail is perfectly clear and balanced. The bass is HUGE, but somehow still balanced. But then, listening to something "bassy" like Massive Attack or Tricky is nothing short of mind-blowing. "Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box" from Radiohead's "Amnesiac" is a near-religious experience.

I keep feeling like I'm in a mastering studio with a perfectly-tuned system (including subwoofer) listening to the final version of a song before it gets released to production. I'm rediscovering music I've listened to for decades. It's wonderful.

 

[DC5Zilla]

Very informative thread!

 

[FortisFlyer75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, I sent my "dull and lackluster" 16s to JH Audio and received them back in 8 days. Very interesting stuff happened! The change in sound is fascinating. Something clearly went wrong with the initial manufacture of my 16s. Before, the tips (internal ends) were open. I could see three tubes coming out from the drivers, but the tubes were of varying length, and the internal cavity of the earphone was open and exposed. This is my first pair of custom phones, so I didn't know if they were supposed to be like that or not. I thought it would be pretty easy for that whole cavity to collect gunk, so it didn't seem quite right, but what did I know?

Interesting, if i remember rightly the demo pair was exactly the same as i noticed all the other JH models was sealed of at the ends, but like you described the 16's was three separate plastic tubes with nothing around them.

Can only hope this is what happened to me as i can not believe Jerry made them to sound as i had experienced hearing them after i had just listened to the 13's, it was just like a night and day difference.

This is a bit of re-assuring news.

Thanks for that bit of info tompoll

 

[draven5494]

Thanks for the info tompoll. That is something I will definitely look for when I get mine in a week or two.

 

[maguire]

"Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box" from Radiohead's "Amnesiac" is a near-religious experience.

Thats it, JH16 is the one i will be ordering.........When money becomes available.

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompoll /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, I sent my "dull and lackluster" 16s to JH Audio and received them back in 8 days. Very interesting stuff happened!...

Very interesting and informative. I have to hope that JH Audio are addressing the bizarre problems that led to your initial disappointment. It seems beyond mere QC to products just being made occassionally wrong.

Anyway delighted it worked out for you. Your description of the corrected JH16s is intriguing to say the least.

(And Sonic, not meaning to pile on but this is how you quote a lengthy review. I mean come on... a 16 or so paragraph quote followed by a 6 word comment?)

 

[warp08]

Quote:

Now I understand the incredibly accurate words jude so carefully chose to describe the bass in his review. It isn't really an increased quantity of bass I'm hearing--rather it's an extended richness and presence in the bass that I've never heard before. I find it quite visceral and exciting. When listening to something acoustic, like symphonic music or some Pat Metheny Trio, every detail is perfectly clear and balanced. The bass is HUGE, but somehow still balanced. But then, listening to something "bassy" like Massive Attack or Tricky is nothing short of mind-blowing. "Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box" from Radiohead's "Amnesiac" is a near-religious experience. I keep feeling like I'm in a mastering studio with a perfectly-tuned system (including subwoofer) listening to the final version of a song before it gets released to production. I'm rediscovering music I've listened to for decades. It's wonderful.

X2. Sorry about your initial experience, but I'm glad it turned out the way I have experienced the 16s out of the box. I'm not only rediscovering music but thanks to my JH monitors I can now appreciate and enjoy other genres I was never able to before.

Cases like yours are classic examples of the importance of not only picking your customs by specs or reviews but also the reputation and willingness of the company to stand behind them and fix any concern you may have until you are fully satisfied. This goes double for a most complex and sophisticated flagship model. Enjoy!

 

[warp08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ordered my JH16's a week ago and while I'm waiting I had a couple quick questions. First, what is JH's stance on wearing customs at the gym - specifically does sweat cause any problems (corrosion to connector, etc)? Secondly, if you have a balanced TWAG cable can you use it with a non-balanced source (say you don't want to bring your Protector with you, can you play out of a 3GS headphone jack or would you need to swap cables?)

I admire your courage for taking your 16s to the gym. Maybe it's not an issue with yours but in mine there were quite a few lockers broken into. That's why I kept my Shure SE530s paired with an iPod Shuffle. The sweat was another concern. Just my 2 cents.