[ironmine]

Prudik,
Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.

 

[brunk]

  Prudik,
Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.

I think the problem was just as he suggested, and what i was thinking - it's not a one-size fits all type of thing. There will always be problem tracks, but it's when you start to notice a consistent problem across all music that there needs to be an adjustment somewhere.
 
Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks. 

 

[ironmine]

  Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks. 

 
No, I use Foobar only.

Has anybody tried this crossfeed plugin:
 
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=90761
 

 

[Chodi]

   
No, I use Foobar only.

Has anybody tried this crossfeed plugin:
 
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=90761
 

Yes I tried it. I've tried most of the available dsp for crossfeed. I went back to TB Isone. I agree that the original version of Isone is easier to use and easier to get acceptable results. Once I dialed in the new version of TB Isone I found it superior. You can use TB Isone just as crossfeed at various levels or use the the full package of choices for a really amazing, almost endless number of choices. Using this dsp I can make my headphones  produce a very realistic experience. I keep several presets to change based on the quality and style of the recording and music. The thing about TB Isone is that you can use it as minimal crossfeed or go all the way and simulate room acoustics. The out of head experience really adds to my enjoyment using headphones. The only negative is that it takes a lot of experimentation to get it right.

 

[DarKen23]

 
I had ditched the whole idea of using TB-Isone ever again in the morning, i was that frustrated.
But in order not to make things up i set it up once again and listened to different albums. (listening right now

)
I had an essay of complaints written already, then i started to delete lines, i noticed that actually only selection of albums are affected, coincidently the ones i listened in the morning.
 
These settings work for most music. 
    I've tried suggested calibration and pretty much every setting excluding speaker cabinet resp and room designer features.
I don't use any room effects, these sound too weird to me.
 
 
It is easy to see from some freq domain analyzer plug-in (JRiver has one built in) that fr-response is weirdly distorted, if pink noise is fed through Isone.
I understand that higher freq-s need to be lowered, but i am not so sure that adding awkward peaks/drop-outs to high-midrange and treble is needed. I think this may be what messes up timbre.
Pink noise is not music on the other hand, it has mixed bag of everything regarding phase and freg content so maybe it even has to be that way.
 
Particular tracks where timbre is very wrong with Isone:
>Puscifer - Toma ( starting hi-hats are sounding noticeably darker/weird)
>entire album: Conditions of My Parole
>other Puscifer albums too to lesser degree (not affected album: V for Vagina)
>Steak number 8 (album: When the candle dies out)
 
Bypassing Isone opens new information and changes timbre right in these listed recordings. To my ears.
 
Interesting thing is that so many recordings don't suffer any degradation at all, just different (mostly better) presentation. For example Radiohead stuff is like that. Classical seems unaffected aswell.
Maybe if some albums are recorded in some semi-binaural way then Isone over-amplifies things?

Why is your CSC turned off? 

 

[Chodi]

 
I had ditched the whole idea of using TB-Isone ever again in the morning, i was that frustrated.
But in order not to make things up i set it up once again and listened to different albums. (listening right now

)
I had an essay of complaints written already, then i started to delete lines, i noticed that actually only selection of albums are affected, coincidently the ones i listened in the morning.
 
These settings work for most music. 
    I've tried suggested calibration and pretty much every setting excluding speaker cabinet resp and room designer features.
I don't use any room effects, these sound too weird to me.
 
 
It is easy to see from some freq domain analyzer plug-in (JRiver has one built in) that fr-response is weirdly distorted, if pink noise is fed through Isone.
I understand that higher freq-s need to be lowered, but i am not so sure that adding awkward peaks/drop-outs to high-midrange and treble is needed. I think this may be what messes up timbre.
Pink noise is not music on the other hand, it has mixed bag of everything regarding phase and freg content so maybe it even has to be that way.
 
Particular tracks where timbre is very wrong with Isone:
>Puscifer - Toma ( starting hi-hats are sounding noticeably darker/weird)
>entire album: Conditions of My Parole
>other Puscifer albums too to lesser degree (not affected album: V for Vagina)
>Steak number 8 (album: When the candle dies out)
 
Bypassing Isone opens new information and changes timbre right in these listed recordings. To my ears.
 
Interesting thing is that so many recordings don't suffer any degradation at all, just different (mostly better) presentation. For example Radiohead stuff is like that. Classical seems unaffected aswell.
Maybe if some albums are recorded in some semi-binaural way then Isone over-amplifies things?

Just some observations on your settings. The T setting at maximum is active even when the "room" setting is off. I find anything beyond 40 to be too much. At maximum I would expect it to be way too much. You have also set the speaker angle at max. That will produce a very wide soundstage but at the loss of a solid center image. Something in the 30-35 range is more reasonable. If you are using foobar instead of J River that speaker volume setting can really mess things up. I understand you have to keep the peak volume below clipping, but in foobar it really does change the sound. In J River the speaker volume control is more transparent. Your room settings are extreme I can see why you don't like that.

 

[Priidik]

  I think the problem was just as he suggested, and what i was thinking - it's not a one-size fits all type of thing. There will always be problem tracks, but it's when you start to notice a consistent problem across all music that there needs to be an adjustment somewhere.
 
Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks. 

YEs, i have tried it. JRiver's own cross-feed is subtle, but never offensive. And again you are right, it does work with these tracks
Isone Pro to me is inferior to TB-Isone. It is even more prone to timbre problems in my experience.

 

[Priidik]

  Why is your CSC turned off? 

 
CSC does not affect timbre at all, it tilts treble back up a little. To my ears at least.
CSC on or off is not that important to me, might as well leave it off. Maybe that way it is shorter audio chain too?!

 

[Priidik]

   
CSC does not affect timbre at all, it tilts treble back up a little. To my ears at least.
CSC on or off is not that important to me, might as well leave it off. Maybe that way it is shorter audio chain too?!

Ok, i confirmed with some more listening that  i was wrong. It lowers low treble/ high mid but rises higher frequencies. 
Still, it feels like some information stays hidden when CSC is on.

 

[Priidik]

  Just some observations on your settings. The T setting at maximum is active even when the "room" setting is off. I find anything beyond 40 to be too much. At maximum I would expect it to be way too much. You have also set the speaker angle at max. That will produce a very wide soundstage but at the loss of a solid center image. Something in the 30-35 range is more reasonable. If you are using foobar instead of J River that speaker volume setting can really mess things up. I understand you have to keep the peak volume below clipping, but in foobar it really does change the sound. In J River the speaker volume control is more transparent. Your room settings are extreme I can see why you don't like that.

With my edition of TB Isone (2.91) knob  ''T60'' is bypassed if room designer is off (which is the case if you review my original post), so are all the other room calibration features (Size, Early refl, Diff).
Only Distance remains effective. These room settings are too awkward to me anyways. Only very limited recordings where no reverb is used these settings can make a difference in positive direction, i think.
I use 45deg angle because anything lower than 40deg seems to make everything too mono-ish, and i have confirmed with studio monitors (which are at ~ 30 deg each) that 45 deg setting in Isone is closest to sound that monitors provide. Actually HD800's are very close to my monitors with Isone, which is a thing to behold.
 
Despite complaints when i put my cans on i get startled often as it feels like my monitors are on-line (and making loud noise to disturb others in house), only to find out that they are not.

 

[blueangel2323]

  Prudik,
Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.

Just discovered this thread and downloaded the trial version of TB Isone. It's exactly the same as the full version, just without the ability to save your settings, right? I'm not much of a tweaker so just using the presets work just fine for me.
 
How is the previous version better?

 

[Priidik]

  Just discovered this thread and downloaded the trial version of TB Isone. It's exactly the same as the full version, just without the ability to save your settings, right? I'm not much of a tweaker so just using the presets work just fine for me.
 
How is the previous version better?

I think current TB Isone is better than Isone Pro.
Although some earlier version of TB Isone sounded truly weird.
Isone Pro is a bit easier to set up and has less tweaking possibilities. 

 

[relopez]

I wanted to pipe in with my TB Isone experience. With the settings described below I recently listened to the Carlos Kleiber Vienna Philharmonic recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies. I'm not very articulate in describing my impressions, but I will say that I could pinpoint the location of each instrument playing, and this location corresponded to where the instrument should be if you were sitting near the front of the audience, maybe 10 rows back. I've never heard imaging this precise. When I closed my eyes it was as if I were actually at the concert, in a way I've never heard with headphones before. At the same time the processing didn't seem to degrade the timbre of each instrument. They sounded very realistic. It was really a dramatic effect. 
 
Anyway, that's my two cents. 
 
Here's my audio chain:
 
iTunes => Soundflower => AU Lab => TB Isone => optical out => Bifrost => Lyr => LCD2
 
After some experimentation I found the settings in the screenshot below to sound good. I'd appreciate suggestions to improve these settings. They're based on the near field preset.
 
Rob
 

 

[Chodi]

  I wanted to pipe in with my TB Isone experience. With the settings described below I recently listened to the Carlos Kleiber Vienna Philharmonic recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies. I'm not very articulate in describing my impressions, but I will say that I could pinpoint the location of each instrument playing, and this location corresponded to where the instrument should be if you were sitting near the front of the audience, maybe 10 rows back. I've never heard imaging this precise. When I closed my eyes it was as if I were actually at the concert, in a way I've never heard with headphones before. At the same time the processing didn't seem to degrade the timbre of each instrument. They sounded very realistic. It was really a dramatic effect. 
 
Anyway, that's my two cents. 
 
Here's my audio chain:
 
iTunes => Soundflower => AU Lab => TB Isone => optical out => Bifrost => Lyr => LCD2
 
After some experimentation I found the settings in the screenshot below to sound good. I'd appreciate suggestions to improve these settings. They're based on the near field preset.
 
Rob
 

How did you get that screen? I have never seen that before. Is that some new screen available in a new version of Isone? I haven't bothered to update my version of TB Isone in months I would like to know if that is some very new version?

 

[relopez]

  How did you get that screen? I have never seen that before. Is that some new screen available in a new version of Isone? I haven't bothered to update my version of TB Isone in months I would like to know if that is some very new version?

 
To get that screen I started with the default view as shown below. At the top right the "Editor" drop down has another item called "Generic View". That view shows the numerical value of the model parameters. I don't know how far back this feature goes. My version is just a few weeks old.