[MacedonianHero]

I think you should have used the HE-6s in place of the HE-500s as the Hifiman flagship. I'm sure the HE-500s are great, but a few good friends (Skylab and Frank I) have heard both and prefer the HE-6s (assuming you have enough juice for them.)

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

While that's true there is also too many that discount synergy wrt drawing conclusions about a certain phone.  For anyone to plug a phone into one source and amp and make some sweeping conclusion about it is equally fallacious.  Some phones can be very Jeckyl or Hyde depending.  The first thing I ever plugged an HD800 into was my DACPort.  If I had stopped there I would have never bought them and be trolling the threads about how terrible their voicing is.  DACPort's got 18V of swing and the 800 gets loud so that all there is to it right?  Not by a long shot.     
 
In the end you need to find whats best for your ears and gear, no other way around it.  Just don't discount the possibility you might be missing out on something when you start projecting personal experiences on other people as absolute truths.
 

Good post.
 
 
Quote:

I completely disagree.  Not only is it audible it's physically tangible.  Take apart some 555/595s and 558/598s you will see Sennheiser is using thinner paper over the drivers now.  The difference is apparent in A/B.  There is even a mod done by APureSound to the 580/600/650 as well.   
 

This doesn't jive with what you stated above. Fwiw, I've never heard this infamous veil on my very modest setup. Perhaps it's a remnant of the past, prior to the silver screen drivers? Or maybe I struck gold in choosing the components in my setup and was lucky enough to find that synergy you spoke of?
 
Back to the topic - I'm so close to pulling the trigger on one of these orthos, but am finding it hard to split the two. If the HE-500 wasn't in LCD-2 price bracket it'd be a no-brainer.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

This doesn't jive with what you stated above. Fwiw, I've never heard this infamous veil on my very modest setup. Perhaps it's a remnant of the past, prior to the silver screen drivers? Or maybe I struck gold in choosing the components in my setup and was lucky enough to find that synergy you spoke of?

Gear synergy can't fix something that requires a mechanical solution.  I don't quite see how the two posts are related.  The first post was talking about gear synergy w/ a specific phone and what people can interpret from restricted use.  The second was discussing a physical difference in drivers between different model generations.  Sennheiser made a change (for whatever reason-veil, cost, whatever), many people hear the result.  If you disassemble the phones everyone can see it.  This is a specific comment about the 555/595 and 558/598.  
 
The 580/600/650 mod and their driver revisions is a bit of a different scenario and I'm less familiar and intimate with the changes in those drivers over the years.
 
If you like what you hear that's all that matters.  
 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Gear synergy can't fix something that requires a mechanical solution.  I don't quite see how the two posts are related.  The first post was talking about gear synergy w/ a specific phone and what people can interpret from restricted use.  The second was discussing a physical difference in drivers between different model generations.  Sennheiser made a change (for whatever reason-veil, cost, whatever), many people hear the result.  If you disassemble the phones everyone can see it.  This is a specific comment about the 555/595 and 558/598.  
 
The 580/600/650 mod and their driver revisions is a bit of a different scenario and I'm less familiar and intimate with the changes in those drivers over the years.
 
If you like what you hear that's all that matters.  
 

The post you responded to was in relation to the HD650, so I assumed you were painting a broad stroke to include the HD650, which is not veiled in my experience (contrary to Head-Fi dogma). All good though. Carry on.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

The post you responded to was in relation to the HD650, so I assumed you were painting a broad stroke to include the HD650, which is not veiled in my experience (contrary to Head-Fi dogma). All good though. Carry on.

I should have been more clear, my bad.  The 650 is the best thing I've probably heard out of the Burson 160 in my limited experience.  I even used the 650 at a meet to AB 5 different portable amps for over an hour.  Can't even be compared to the 555/595 IMO.  I haven't heard the 580/600/650 mod so I'm not sure how much clarity can be gained if any.  
 
Could be people often mix up terms like veil, dark and warm too.
 

 

[LugBug1]

 
Quote:

I completely disagree.  Not only is it audible it's physically tangible.  Take apart some 555/595s and 558/598s you will see Sennheiser is using thinner paper over the drivers now.  The difference is apparent in A/B.  There is even a mod done by APureSound to the 580/600/650 as well.   
 

I hear what you are saying, but still stand by what i said. I own the 595's as well (old 120 imp version), and Sennheiser are just keeping up with the times; lowering the impedance for use with portable media players and also making these newer phones more "exciting" sounding for the newer generation of buyers (was going to say younger, but that would be agest). While the 650 is still there with the more refined sound for people who appreciate this and understand that they need certain equipment to find synergy. There is no "veil" when these puppies are amped properly.
 
I see the "new kings" as a step towards this newer generation of buyers, though it seems hifiman have still produced a high impedance model for the "hifi"man.
 
(yes impedance does matter if you want to draw as much power in to the cans as poss to get better linearity)  

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

I think one explanation for this is that some people's hearing also rolls off in the treble.  I know mine does from age and going to too many loud arena concerts 20-30 years ago.  A good example of this is the complaints about the treble peaks in the DT880.  I can't hear them at all.

Eek. I'm 64 with tinnitus and I couldn't hear past the treble peaks in the DT880. I ran screaming from the room and sold them the following week. 
 
 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
Yes, something I couldn't get around during my listening sessions.  You can play around w/ tonality and soundstage using tubes.  I don't know what can be done about those LCD2's issues.  At least on my end.
 
 
 

 
Could you elaborate on what those issues are? I'm stll unclear.
 
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Na I don't think that's it, I'm young and have very good hearing, and I agree that the LCD-2's treble is quite rolled off in comparison to cans like the T1 and HD800.  My only issue with them really.

 

[bumblingbooby]

Yes, we all hear differently and our hearing deteriorates with age (what doesn't decline with ageing?), but the LCD-2's highs are rolled-off, recessed, shelved-down - call it whatever you like, and the frequency response measurements support this perception.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Yes, we all hear differently and our hearing deteriorates with age (what doesn't decline with ageing?), but the LCD-2's highs are rolled-off, recessed, shelved-down - call it whatever you like, and the frequency response measurements support this perception.

Your response is slightly exaggerated, I would not term the LCD-2’s “recessed nor shelved-down”.  I cannot hear any loss in detail, in fact I find the opposite to be true, coming from the HD800 the slight treble peak was a constant distraction from the midrange, not so with the LCD-2, the slight roll opens up the midrange very nicely indeed. From my experience a phone that adds an artifact is considerably worse than one that choses to limit the response. The LCD-2 has a compromise, as do all phones do, I can happy live with it more than any other phone I’ve heard.

 

[pp312]

c

 
Quote:

Yes, we all hear differently and our hearing deteriorates with age (what doesn't decline with ageing?), but the LCD-2's highs are rolled-off, recessed, shelved-down - call it whatever you like, and the frequency response measurements support this perception.

BB, I'm not sure you can go by the FR. Headroom has a screed on how to interpret their graphs and it talks about the ideal subjective response as being one where the treble rolls off from around 1khz. A dead flat response on any phone would be way too bright as it fails to take account of the way we hear. If you find the LCD-2 too dull that's one thing, but I would be wary of supporting your argument with the measured FR by claiming it should be flat.
 

 

[bumblingbooby]

Quote:

Your response is slightly exaggerated, I would not term the LCD-2’s “recessed nor shelved-down”.  I cannot hear any loss in detail, in fact I find the opposite to be true, coming from the HD800 the slight treble peak was a constant distraction from the midrange, not so with the LCD-2, the slight roll opens up the midrange very nicely indeed. From my experience a phone that adds an artifact is considerably worse than one that choses to limit the response. The LCD-2 has a compromise, as do all phones do, I can happy live with it more than any other phone I’ve heard.

 
I am not sure whether you misunderstand my view of the LCD's muted treble presentation, which I find surprising given our exchange earlier in this thread or are choosing to ignore it. Either way, I won't repeat it here but invite you to revisit my original post on the subject. We obviously disagree on this point.
 
And I honestly do not think that it is an exaggeration to any degree, to describe the treble presentation of the LCD-2 as "rolled-off", "shelved down" or "recessed", based on my own listening experience. However, I will repeat that there is a lot to like about the LCD-2 and I can understand its appeal. 

 

[Confispect]

Quote:

Here's an absolute truth:  I love my dynamic cans. 

1+
 

 

[Skylab]

It is technically inaccurate to describe the treble of the LCD-2 as "rolled off". It simply is not. Rolled off means a declining amplitude and frequency increases. This is very clearly not the case as all of the LCD-2 measurements show.

The correct term for the LCD-2's treble response is "shelved down". You can love it or hate it, but that is what it is. Not rolled off.