[USAudio]

LCD-i3 are very sensitive for proper fit, so take your time and play with other tips sizes and types. Also the way you are wearing them is important. I didn't perceived them as thin and with little bass impact unless too small tips were used. I suggest to try Cipher BT - is a bass booster for this series - and angles earhooks for the best stabilization and leveling the headphones towards ear canal properly. You can help yourself with bathroom mirror and see if i3 are more horizontally aligned or hanging down.

As for EQ, unfortunately I cannot provide any useful data here. If you are using mini jack 3,5 mm and for example foobar, Reveal+ Free can help.

Thanks for the feedback. That's unfortunate they are very sensitive for proper fit, but I guess most all IEMs are. One of the things I liked about the Audeze in-ears is that you weren't required to jam them into your ear canals like other IEMs, as detailed in this Audeze-produced video:

A couple followup questions:

1) What are the advantages of the grooved eartips? A more secure fit? Any audio quality advantages?

2) With the wired lightning Cipher V2 cable, is it limited to 24/48 like the Apple dongle? Per the Amazon Music HD app, that is the highest resolution capability of the device. Maybe that is an iOS limitation, I assumed the Cipher cable would support 24/96.

 

[EvilKillaruna]

Don't worry. i3 are not that picky. What I meant in my previous post is that they are more picky than iSine series in that regard. For example, with i10 and i20 you could use smaller tips for your advantage and make them thinner and brighter in a good way. With i3 results are worse and with that, LCD-i3 require simply proper seal and fit, which should be obtained always with every iSine model. You simply lose one way of using them, which is now being penalized with tips smaller than you should use.

As for right angle - this is also general rule for all iSine series. If iSine or LCD-i3 are in "soon about to fall out" position (off-axis), they are shooting soundwave more into your ear canal wall and not into ear drum. You don't have to jam them in forcibly. Just remember Earlocks (iSine) and Earfins (i3) can make them sag over time of use, for example after 1 hour.

Ad.1) Mostly better grip with Earlock and Earfins, which can prevent sagging and taking too much off-axis position. Less comfortable than smooth silicones, but more practical. With sound, you shouldn't hear any differences. If you hear better bass, that means you have better seal with Groovy tips than standard smooth tips (they have slightly different diameters).

Ad.2) I don't know. I don't have any Apple device to check that. But in the Sine thread, other people also reported 24/48 as forced limit:

I have not yet found a set of lightning headphones which can receive anything above 48kHz across the lightning connector. The Audeze Cipher is an example (24-bit, 48kHz max). (Notice that Philips Fidelio are also advertised as "24-bit" but never mention sample rate.)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-sine-series.793518/page-191

As for Cipher BT, which I am kinda forced to use with my i20 Standard, I am limited to 16/44.1 and cannot change that setting (PC, Windows 10, USB BT adapter). That is why I've referred to CBT and not Cv2. I suspect results should be similar though.

 

[USAudio]

... other people also reported 24/48 as forced limit ...

Yeah, it makes me think that maybe Audeze is just using the 24/48 DAC that is fully integrated into the Apple MFI licensed components.

 

[USAudio]

Using the lightning Cipher V2 cable, I've come up with a fun V-shaped EQ for the LCDi3 I thought I'd share here, should anyone else find it useful:

It is most definitely a work in progress.

For context, I listen mostly to progressive rock, e.g. Pink Floyd, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Tool, etc., but also most other rock genres in general.

 

[davehutch]

Yeah, it makes me think that maybe Audeze is just using the 24/48 DAC that is fully integrated into the Apple MFI licensed components.

Exactly that. The component is called the Lightning Audio Module (LAM) and in order to achieve Apple MFi certification, it has to have one of those chips in the device. They are limited to 24/48
Certainly at my age though (57) I have no reason to seek out any higher bit depths or sample rates so the convenience outweighs the 'limitation' for me easily.

 

[EvilKillaruna]

But only if we assume that the certain music label does not release files with higher sampling with better mastering, or in other words: does not artificially worsen those with lower bitrate to justify buying more expensive albums .

As for LAM, yes, that is true. And the chip in Cv2 and CBT is different, so even with identical target tuning the results will be similar, but not 100% the same.

I've come up with a fun V-shaped EQ for the LCDi3

It looks very aggressive for low and top end. My first thought was you probably have the wrong headphones if such EQ has to be applied. When I was testing LCD-i3, one of the other pairs for comparison was Meze Rai Penta. Much more conventional sound and with not so holographic soundstage, but with tonality which correspond with your EQ setting quite well. In my country they are available for very similar price.

From Audeze's portfolio, if you want to stick with this brand, you can get 3 pair with somehow similar tonal direction:

1. iSine 20, you'll get more bass and top end, but midrange will be closer and more vivid than in i3. EOL
2. Sine, they have such tonality, quite strong and fast bass, pronounced top end. EOL
3. LCD-2CB, it is a i10 level of quality, but from their full size headphones that pair should be the closest.

Since there was a debate i3 vs LCD-X, with X I am not sure if the results could be even worse since they are darker than i3 from my memory.

 

[USAudio]

As a starting point, on top the the Ciper DSP settings, I roughly used the "Rock" EQ settings from Apple Music and JRiver MC:

 

[davehutch]

But only if we assume that the certain music label does not release files with higher sampling with better mastering, or in other words: does not artificially worsen those with lower bitrate to justify buying more expensive albums .

As for LAM, yes, that is true. And the chip in Cv2 and CBT is different, so even with identical target tuning the results will be similar, but not 100% the same.

Good point about the music label. Who can tell eh? Maybe a two-tier system will happen at some point?
Interesting about the different chips. I'd hope that you could achieve an almost identical sound with wired and BT though. Still no answer from @Audeze about the different sound on the Cipher units or whether the i3 specific DSP is anywhere near ready after 9 months of the i3 being on the market.

 

[EvilKillaruna]

For critical listening any album before buying, I am using LCD-XC or K1000.
About achieving the same results with any Cipher vs Analog, it is possible, but require a lot of patience and probably need to involve Reveal. Between CBT and Cv2 - the same, but EQ must be used along the way for further corrections.

I've made simple tests with iSine 20 and CBT / analog jack / Reveal some time ago:

There is a lot of room for personal experiments and improvements. Unfortunately, such matching procedure can be achieved flawlessly mostly on measurement equipment. Normal person must trust his own ears and make everything to "sound similar" by ear or based on external data.

 

[dasadab]

@Monstieur
I owe you an apology.

For some reason I was misreading or misinterpreting what you had written....call it self isolation madness or stubborness - I apologise

Spent a long time re reading your posts, downloaded the Reveal plugin from Audeze and tried Soundsource on my imac with the plugins.

I totally get what you've been trying to tell me now.
Using my idsd micro dac/amp with the i3 and the reveal plug in and noticed a big difference in sound, almost a different earphone, im not sure why I didn't see such a difference with the cipher cable a few days ago, itaybe that I've swapped to the large tips for a better fit, maybe the different tips affected my judgement...I don't know

Then went on to trying the settings that were posted elsewhere and that Audeze emailed me for using with the PEQ on the Fiio M15, again a massive difference, again almost like a different earphone.
The only thing I would say is that they do scale with better sources, i tried the cipher again earlier and I get it now however using the plugins I can now hear the target Audeze were aiming for however with the idsd and the fiio there is more refinement and detail in the delivery.

Once again sorry for being a bit abrupt in my replies and thanks for the explanations.

The only downside is that there doesn't appear to be an I3 option on the Reveal plugins, been switching between isine 20 and lcd i4. I think the curve from Audeze for the uapp peq is based on the iSine 20 as well, I'm curious as to whether they will update with the i3 option

Hi, Hi have been reading this thread—as a newbie audio person—and the new owner of i3s. I was shocked by how wonderful the i3s sound on my iphone.
My basic understanding is that with the iphone and the cipher cable, I can use the Audeze HQ app to play with various equalizer settings—which I have been doing, but I am just listening and guessing with most songs. Not sure if there is a method I am missing. I mostly stream HQ music from Qobuz.

I also have a Hiby R5 DAP and, from my understanding, there is no way to equalize Qobuz streams or downloads because Qobuz does not have an equalizer function. I would therefore be limited to only being able to equalize the music that I own and have stored on my DAP’s memory chip. Correct?
If correct, is it worth messing with the DAP at all since most of my enjoyment comes from listening to the wonderful selections available on Qobuz?

In other words, is there a i3 best practices for streaming on a DAP?

Any other suggestions or thought for this beginner, greatly appreciated.

 

[McCol]

Hi, Hi have been reading this thread—as a newbie audio person—and the new owner of i3s. I was shocked by how wonderful the i3s sound on my iphone.
My basic understanding is that with the iphone and the cipher cable, I can use the Audeze HQ app to play with various equalizer settings—which I have been doing, but I am just listening and guessing with most songs. Not sure if there is a method I am missing. I mostly stream HQ music from Qobuz.

I also have a Hiby R5 DAP and, from my understanding, there is no way to equalize Qobuz streams or downloads because Qobuz does not have an equalizer function. I would therefore be limited to only being able to equalize the music that I own and have stored on my DAP’s memory chip. Correct?
If correct, is it worth messing with the DAP at all since most of my enjoyment comes from listening to the wonderful selections available on Qobuz?

In other words, is there a i3 best practices for streaming on a DAP?

Any other suggestions or thought for this beginner, greatly appreciated.

I use the USB Audio Player Pro app on my Fiio M15, this allows me to use a para Eq, there is a setting for this eq which closely resembles the Cipher.
Works for me

 

[dasadab]

I use the USB Audio Player Pro app on my Fiio M15, this allows me to use a para Eq, there is a setting for this eq which closely resembles the Cipher.
Works for me

Thanks, but I don’t think this would work with Qobuz content played on my Hiby R5 DAP. In other words, unless I am mistaken, you can’t steam or play previously downloaded Qobuz subscription content on another app with any DAP? Qobuz does not have an equalizer. I would love to be able to have an equalizer option with my DAP and Qobuz? My Hiby R5 is android based.

Do I have this all wrong?

 

[McCol]

Thanks, but I don’t think this would work with Qobuz content played on my Hiby R5 DAP. In other words, unless I am mistaken, you can’t steam or play previously downloaded Qobuz subscription content on another app with any DAP? Qobuz does not have an equalizer. I would love to be able to have an equalizer option with my DAP and Qobuz? My Hiby R5 is android based.

Do I have this all wrong?

You can log into Qobus via UAPP, you can only stream, i did mean to say that originally

 

[dasadab]

You can log into Qobus via UAPP, you can only stream, i did mean to say that originally

Thanks. That is very helpful. A couple of final questions (Thanks!!). If I listen to the i3s through the DAP from non streaming sources—CDs that I have ripped to FLAC or music I have downloaded as part of my Qobuz subscription (you don’t really “own” them) I think the answer is: 1. For my ripped CDs or purchased content (e.g. HD tracks), I can use the R5s native equalizer options and I probably will need to because I won’t have the benefit of the cipher tuning, correct? 2. For stuff I have downloaded from Qobuz, “the subscription downloads”, I don’t have any equalizer options, correct?
Thanks a lot!!

I hope I am making sense as I struggle to get the best quality from the amazing i3s from different sources.

 

[McCol]

Thanks. That is very helpful. A couple of final questions (Thanks!!). If I listen to the i3s through the DAP from non streaming sources—CDs that I have ripped to FLAC or music I have downloaded as part of my Qobuz subscription (you don’t really “own” them) I think the answer is: 1. For my ripped CDs or purchased content (e.g. HD tracks), I can use the R5s native equalizer options and I probably will need to because I won’t have the benefit of the cipher tuning, correct? 2. For stuff I have downloaded from Qobuz, “the subscription downloads”, I don’t have any equalizer options, correct?
Thanks a lot!!

I hope I am making sense as I struggle to get the best quality from the amazing i3s from different sources.

All of your ripped content and purchased will play through UAPP, so you will still have access to the para eq settings.

I might be wrong and others will know better but if the Hiby eq is not a parametric eq then you won't be able to emulate the Cipher's sound.

I think the R5 has MSEB which is similar to a parametric eq, however I might be wrong on that.