[Tajz]

Anyone have a solution to fix sine comfort? I heard people mentioned vesperaudio custom earpad? Is it gonna help? (If so which one, there are 4 of them in VA website) I truely enjoy my Sine + Mojo but with its design, doesnt really fit my ear. (It hurt over time)

 

[High-End-Addict]

this has been treated in this thread earlier ... Try Brainwaz angle pads...

 

[bsd107]

 
Its an annoying limitation, but I don't see why its a big deal. 24/48 is already above CD resolution. Also, Its a phone, not a music player. There is hardly any space to store many ultra-high res audio files. Plus, cipher is not a highly resolving DAC. So, I doubt it would benefit from higher bitrate, even if our ears could distinguish between such subtle quality differences in a (noisy?) mobile environment. If you listen to Apple Music or Tidal, those bitrates are going to be fine.
 
For desktop use, ditch cipher and get a high quality amp to use with Sine.

 
If the DAC/AMP is part of the headphones, there is no reason that a phone cannot be a top-quality music player.  My iPhone has 256GB internal storage - more than enough for me.  And I have several iOS apps that will send out high-rez audio, but only to certain DACs and over the lightnin-to-USB converter.
 
My point is, I want the headphone DAC/AMP (whether Cipher, Sony MDR-1ADAC, or something higher quality, etc.) to be the sound-quality-determining step, not the music player.  If the Apple would just open up the lightnin standard on the software side to allow higher sampling rates, this would be achieved.  They already did this once a few years ago, enabling 24-bit output - they just need to do the same for sampling rate.
 
(Totally agree that this is overkill for Apple Music....)
 
Actually, I wonder if the iPhone will output 44.1kHz to the Cipher when appropriate (e.g. when playing lossless CD rips), or if everything is converted to 48kHz first.  I have noticed that when using the (crappy) Apple Lightning Earpods, the iPhone correctly outputs either 44.1kHz or 48kHz, depending on the bitrate of the source (i.e. it even correctly downsamples 192kHz to 48kHz, and 88.2kHz to 44.1kHz).

 

[bsd107]

 
Many online reviewers rely on the manufacturers to supply them with product, which they only do if the reviews remain generally positive.  So pointing out deficiencies will not please them, and the reviewer may be left out next time.  This does not apply to everyone, but more than you may suspect.

 
That is really annoying.  Especially when it's really Apple limiting in this case (at least according to Audeze)

 

[bsd107]

 
Limitation ro 24/48  may be not the Apple"s fault...
Have you tried high res audio player on the iPhone such as ONKYO , and check what"s on when playing 24/192 files...
I think 24/192 is sent through the lightning output then... but you may need a real DAC to benefit from this High resolution.
CIPHER is merely an expensive microphone for using SINE to phone.
SINE audio quality deserves to connect it to DAC-AMPS such as MOJO or OPPO HA2.

 
I wonder this myself.  But it seems that all of the devices that work with the high res iOS audio apps (and I have several, including ONKYO HF Player, TEAC HR Player, and my favorites KORG iAudioGate and NePLAYER as they explicitly show the output sample rate) ONLY send out above 48kHz when using an Apple lightning-to-USB adapter.
 
I have not yet found a set of lightning headphones which can receive anything above 48kHz across the lightning connector.  The Audeze Cipher is an example (24-bit, 48kHz max).  (Notice that Philips Fidelio are also advertised as "24-bit" but never mention sample rate.)
 
Another example are my Sony MDR-1ADAC, which when connected via USB to a PC support up to 24-bit at 192kHz PCM in hardware.  With Sony's included Walkman cable, up to 192kHz PCM is supported.  However, when connected via Sony's included lightning cable to an iOS device, only 16-bit at 44.1/48kHz are supported according to the manual.  Although, in actuality, with iOS10 I can only get 16-bit at 44.1kHz (and not 48kHz, even with 48kHz sources).
 
The Apple Lightining Earpods will receive at 44.1kHz and 48kHz (don't know the bitdepth).  Of course, these are very low quality earbuds, but interestingly the iPhone will correctly output the most appropriate sampling rate depending on the source (e.g. 192kHz is output at 48kHz, whereas 88.2kHz is output at 44.1kHz).
 
Overall, this all wreaks of iOS software limitations, not hardware limitations.  Which means it should be fixable in software, if Apple would care.
 
My desire is to use the iPhone with headphones that contain an internal DAC/AMP and have it sent native sampling rates and bitdepths - I don't want to carry around an external DAC/AMP for travel.  No reason why this shouldn't be possible, if Apple supported it - in fact, this is exactly what Audeze told me with regards to the Cipher.

 

[sup27606]

   
My desire is to use the iPhone with headphones that contain an internal DAC/AMP and have it sent native sampling rates and bitdepths - I don't want to carry around an external DAC/AMP for travel.  No reason why this shouldn't be possible, if Apple supported it - in fact, this is exactly what Audeze told me with regards to the Cipher.

 
My point is, if you are listening to music while traveling outdoor, would it matter if the sound resolution is 48 KHz or 192 KHz? Is it possible to detect differences in resolution at such high data rate, especially when in a nosy non-ideal environment. There may be a practical reason for Apple to not support higher resolution, or it may be just their stubbornness, but for me it doesn't matter that much if I am going to use it while traveling. Again, the cipher cable is not very resolving (I compared it against other portable amps like Fiio E12 and Cayin C5 which I use), so I doubt it would benefit from higher bitrates. 
 

My point is, I want the headphone DAC/AMP (whether Cipher, Sony MDR-1ADAC, or something higher quality, etc.) to be the sound-quality-determining step, not the music player.

 
If you are going to use cipher, I strongly think your DAC/AMP is going to be the limiting factor, not the iphone even if it is limited to 48 KHz. You may not agree with me, but you should do the comparison if you have the chance. For other DAC/AMPs, it may be a different story, but again IMO, such ultra-high resolution only has benefits in a quiet ideal environment, and that too for really high quality recordings.

 

[bsd107]

On the Qobuz website, there is an article about Apple's Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter that is bundled with iPhone 7 models.  They say that this adapter utilizes a Cirrus Logic CS42L42 codec chip with integrated amp.  The specs on this chip support up to 24-bit audio at up to 192kHz.
 
Qobuz then played a music piece recorded in 16-bit/44.1kHz, and then a Hi-Res version of the same song (24-bit/96kHz), heard differences, and then (incorrectly, in my opinion) concluded that the Apple adapter was accepting the Hi-Res data as-is.  I am very skeptical, as the app they used only specifies the source material, and it is well know that Hi-Res versions of music are quite often remixed resulting in different sound characteristics.  You need to use an iOS app that actually displays both the format of the source material AND the actual output sample rate. KORG iAudioGate and NePLAYER will do this, and I find that the iPhone outputs to the Apple Lightning adapter outputs only in 44.1kHz or 48kHz.
 
Anyway, the point for bringing all of this up is that Qobuz also claims that this same Cirrus Logic CS42L42 chip is used in the Brightech MFi Pure Lightning Headphone, the Philips Fidelio M2L/27, AND THE AUDEZE EL-8 TITANIUM headphones.  If true, this means this is the chip in the Audeze Cipher cable.  This would make sense as the CS42L42 has not only a pair of DACs (for playback) but also a single ADC, which is required for the microphone functionality.
 
Soooo.... again, if true, this would indicate that the Cipher could support up to 192kHz if Apple enabled this is iOS.
 
This also indicates that the Cipher cable contains a DAC and headphone amplifier that Apple can sell in a converter cable for $9 US retail.  I don't know if the DSP "magic" is already integrated functionality in this CS42L42 or an external custom arrangement.
 
(Sorry if someone already posted this info on this very long thread....)

 

[bsd107]

   
My point is, if you are listening to music while traveling outdoor, would it matter if the sound resolution is 48 KHz or 192 KHz? Is it possible to detect differences in resolution at such high data rate, especially when in a nosy non-ideal environment. There may be a practical reason for Apple to not support higher resolution, or it may be just their stubbornness, but for me it doesn't matter that much if I am going to use it while traveling. Again, the cipher cable is not very resolving (I compared it against other portable amps like Fiio E12 and Cayin C5 which I use), so I doubt it would benefit from higher bitrates. 
 
 
If you are going to use cipher, I strongly think your DAC/AMP is going to be the limiting factor, not the iphone even if it is limited to 48 KHz. You may not agree with me, but you should do the comparison if you have the chance. For other DAC/AMPs, it may be a different story, but again IMO, such ultra-high resolution only has benefits in a quiet ideal environment, and that too for really high quality recordings.

 
Travel is a relative term - to me that includes quiet listening in a hotel room.
 
I'd just prefer a solution with just the phone (it just simply needs to be a device sending a bitstream!), and the DAC/AMP integrated into the headphones.  Minimize the components to carry around.  And there is ZERO justification for Apple to not enable sending out higher sampling rates - they just don't really care (especially at a time when they are trying to make money on pushing audio over old bluetooth codecs).
 
I don't argue with your assessment of the Cipher sound quality - that is why I am asking questions....  I just hate the idea of the phone (or other DAP) doing a sample/bitrate conversion, and then the outboard DAC doing that again.  Just have the phone give the DAC the best source data possible and let it do the conversion....
 
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[FiJAAS]

What cases do you guys use for the sine? Would the pelican 1200 case be a good fit?

 

[tmarshl]

What cases do you guys use for the sine? Would the pelican 1200 case be a good fit?

I use the Audeze EL-8 case.  Everything fits without removing the cables.  
 
https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/el-8-travel-case

 

[archeryc]

I can't wait to try the iSine20 out. From what I heard it's the evolution of Sine in terms of SQ

 

[tmarshl]

I can't wait to try the iSine20 out. From what I heard it's the evolution of Sine in terms of SQ

+1  When are they shipping?  Still says "preorder" on the website.

 

[qzyxya]

These headphones seemed to be nearly indestructible but today after only a few months of use, the plastic connector between the earcup and the headband cracked. Does the warranty cover this sort of thing?

 

[inthere]

These headphones seemed to be nearly indestructible but today after only a few months of use, the plastic connector between the earcup and the headband cracked. Does the warranty cover this sort of thing?

It should. I believe thing same thing happened to 2 others in this thread and they got theirs replaced.

 

[qzyxya]

It should. I believe thing same thing happened to 2 others in this thread and they got theirs replaced.

Good to hear. How would I go about doing that? I'm home for Thanksgiving this week so I don't have the original packaging with me at the moment.