[Triodemode]

Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD...

 
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-covered-at-high-end-by-enjoythemusic-com/

 

[Seamaster]

  Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD...

 
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-covered-at-high-end-by-enjoythemusic-com/

Where did they say class A helps the sound?

 

[diamondears]

Have you tried Minimum Phase and Standard filters, as well?  For PCM, Bit-Perfect can sound a bit too bright / spitty for some.  For DSD, Standard is the "best" choice (for me, at least).

Just a thought . . .

Depends on recording material, IME. For recordings with more sub-bass, the "enveloping" bass kind (vinyl kind of enveloping bass), bit-perfect is much better. The extra noise is overcome by the bass improvement. For recordings without this kind of bass/sub-bass, and has more digital-ness (loudness war recordings), minimum phase is better, I find. Try them.

 

[h1f1add1cted]

   
This hobby gets very frustrating when stuff is neither on Amazon or eBay and you are not american. Which is what is happening to me now, with this illusive cable. One almost thinks the people at iFi could have put that little thing in that big ole box themselves. As an... accessory!

 
From where you are? I got a custom coax cable for FiiO X3/X5 and iBasso DX50/90 for 35 Euro.
 

 
On top my custom cable on bottom the iBasso stock cable:
 

 

[Triodemode]

 
Where did they say class A helps the sound?

It is well established that properly designed calss A amplification sounds more natural and musical...
 
iCan Micro: Class A amp for a Class A guy!
“Going back to the iCAN Micro. A lot of people will ask why one would even need the iCAN if you have already got iDSD Micro which has a very capable headphone output. After adding the iCAN Micro after iDSD Micro the sound becomes sweeter and warmer….I think it might have something to do with its Class A circuit. I am a Class A guy. My main stereo has a set of Pass Labs XA60.5 Class A mono amps, and i also use First Watt J2 Class A amp for my desktop system. To me a class A amp (well designed of course) just sounds more musical and more effortless. It brings you closer to the music. iCAN did exactly that. I also enjoyed the 3D and Xbass feature. For 90% of the time i listen at Xbass Mid setting and 3D Max setting. I really like iFi’s implementations with both as their effects are subtle….I am currently using this set as my office setup. I am completely satisfied and have no intention to make any change, nor do i think that i can do any better without spending significantly more money. I highly recommend this combo to anyone who is looking for a good and flexible desktop setup as well as with some portability.”
Thanks Eric / Blankdisc!
 
http://ifi-audio.com/reviews/ican-micro-class-a-amp-for-a-class-a-guy/

 

[knorris908]

It is well established that properly designed calss A amplification sounds more natural and musical...

iCan Micro: Class A amp for a Class A guy!
“Going back to the iCAN Micro. A lot of people will ask why one would even need the iCAN if you have already got iDSD Micro which has a very capable headphone output. After adding the iCAN Micro after iDSD Micro the sound becomes sweeter and warmer….I think it might have something to do with its Class A circuit. I am a Class A guy. My main stereo has a set of Pass Labs XA60.5 Class A mono amps, and i also use First Watt J2 Class A amp for my desktop system. To me a class A amp (well designed of course) just sounds more musical and more effortless. It brings you closer to the music. iCAN did exactly that. I also enjoyed the 3D and Xbass feature. For 90% of the time i listen at Xbass Mid setting and 3D Max setting. I really like iFi’s implementations with both as their effects are subtle….I am currently using this set as my office setup. I am completely satisfied and have no intention to make any change, nor do i think that i can do any better without spending significantly more money. I highly recommend this combo to anyone who is looking for a good and flexible desktop setup as well as with some portability.”
Thanks Eric / Blankdisc!

http://ifi-audio.com/reviews/ican-micro-class-a-amp-for-a-class-a-guy/

Well, I won't intrude in this debate as I failed the TIDAL HD music evaluation test repeatedly. But I am hoping to get an iCan in sometime in the near-future so that I can A/B the iDSD Micro with/without the iCan, and present any differences I hear. It just figures that a new iDAC2 is on the horizon! If I hadn't bought a house last year, I would have picked-up an iDAC for myself for Christmas before-last, and been witness to any improvements. Now I just have to hope that the new one will come out quickly-enough that I can do a 7-way eval. (iBasso DX90, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPad Air, Samsung P2, Sony Walkman, & Fooobar/Jmusic Center(PC-Direct) sources into iDSD Micro alone, with FIIO e17, with iCan, with new iDAC 2, and finally with Schiit Audio's ASGARD 2 amplifier. It'll be a large matrix with all those permutations, but hey, it's a hobby. Why not?

CORRECTIONS: I had typed iCan 2 by mistake instead of iDAC 2. Fixed.

 

[Triodemode]

Well, I won't intrude in this debate as I failed the TIDAL HD music evaluation test repeatedly. But I am hoping to get an iCan in sometime in the near-future so that I can A/B the iDSD Micro with/without the iCan, and present any differences I hear. It just figures that a new iDAC2 is on the horizon! If I hadn't bought a house last year, I would have picked-up an iDAC for myself for Christmas before-last, and been witness to any improvements. Now I just have to hope that the new one will come out quickly-enough that I can do a 7-way eval. (iBasso DX90, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPad Air, Samsung P2, Sony Walkman, & Fooobar/Jmusic Center(PC-Direct) sources into iDSD Micro alone, with FIIO e17, with iCan, with new iDAC 2, and finally with Schiit Audio's ASGARD 2 amplifier. It'll be a large matrix with all those permutations, but hey, it's a hobby. Why not?

CORRECTIONS: I had typed iCan 2 by mistake instead of iDAC 2. Fixed.

It doesn't take golden ears to hear the difference class A delivers knorris so I suspect you will also.  I'll likely be picking up the new iDAC2 as long as it offers a fixed RCA output option and it's DAC sounds as good as the one inside the iDSD micro.

 

[iFi audio]

  Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD...

 
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-covered-at-high-end-by-enjoythemusic-com/

 
Hi,
 
Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
 
 
iDAC2 micro - Class A (for line out RCAs only).
 
iDSD micro - some say it's too warm, others it's too sterile compared to Tube Amp's. It is probably about just right to count as neutral (for government work

).
 
When we exhibit at shows, the feedback is pretty much 'Goldilocks' so we think the way we have our demo gear setup is just about spot on with Audio Technica MRS-7 through to the Audeze LCD-X, it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).
 
(Incidentally, we use AN+ and JRMC and always setup as Bit-Perfect for PCM and DSD files)
 
A few customers who have listened to our show rigs are Technobear, Turrican and TF1219 have heard our UK/USA setups at shows and know what kind of sound 'floats our boat.' Not too warm and not too detailed. We like to think of it is 'Goldilocks' or 'just right' (or thereabouts) at least for these 3 bears!
 
 
 
Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
 
Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. We too demo the desktop 'Big Rig' with the iCAN micro always. We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
 
So the micro iDSD from a technical point of view, because it uses battery operation, just cannot perform 'Class A.'  So there will be no change to the micro iDSD because it simply cannot be anything otherwise.
 
 
Just for a bit of fun, can anyone guess what this Auralis (Euro50k) + Karma (Euro90k speakers) setup has to do with iFi?
 

 

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

You cannot spot the DAC because it is not in the picture. This Euro+150k monster system at the Munich High-End Show quietly demo'd with the micro iDSD as DAC feeding this system. It is hidden behind the MacBook Pro one the right-hand side of the room towards the bottom-right of the top picture.

 
Cheers.

 

[Staxton]

 
 
Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
 
Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. 

I am a great fan of the iDSD micro and have been using it with a wide variety of front ends to provide the perfect semi-portable headphone rig that suits my purposes. One of the main reasons I chose the iDSD micro was that its amp section was powerful enough to drive Sennheiser HD800s, while at the same time having the ability to play every sound file imaginable and have great connectivity options. Since I use my rig mostly out of the house, it was important that it be as small as possible, while at the same time have enough power and flexibility to meet my needs. 
 
One of the few concerns I had about the iDSD (based on some comments in this forum) is that some preferred the iDSD played through a dedicated headphone amp, such as the iCAN micro. (Of course, others said they did not think a separate amp was necessary). 
 
Lately, I see that LH Labs claims that its battery-powered Geek Out V2+ has "Class A" Amplifier Output Bias. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-out-v2-portable-headphone-amplifier#/story. This, and a balanced output, were the only factors that made me consider the V2+ as possible competition to the iDSD in this price range.
 
Now, I know virtually nothing about the technology of headphone amplifiers, and I certainly don't want to even speculate as to whether or not the V2+ (Class A or whatever its Amp actually is) will actually sound better than the iDSD Micro, but I am curious as to whether and how LH Labs is in fact able to get sufficient Class A current from battery power. Or is their Class A something different?
 
Any thoughts?

 

[Triodemode]

Quote:Originally Posted by iFi audio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
 
 
 
Hi,
 
Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
 
 
iDAC2 micro - Class A (for line out RCAs only).
 
iDSD micro - some say it's too warm, others it's too sterile compared to Tube Amp's. It is probably about just right to count as neutral (for government work

).
 
When we exhibit at shows, the feedback is pretty much 'Goldilocks' so we think the way we have our demo gear setup is just about spot on with Audio Technica MRS-7 through to the Audeze LCD-X, it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).
 
(Incidentally, we use AN+ and JRMC and always setup as Bit-Perfect for PCM and DSD files)
 
A few customers who have listened to our show rigs are Technobear, Turrican and TF1219 have heard our UK/USA setups at shows and know what kind of sound 'floats our boat.' Not too warm and not too detailed. We like to think of it is 'Goldilocks' or 'just right' (or thereabouts) at least for these 3 bears!
 
 
 
Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
 
Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. We too demo the desktop 'Big Rig' with the iCAN micro always. We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
 
So the micro iDSD from a technical point of view, because it uses battery operation, just cannot perform 'Class A.'  So there will be no change to the micro iDSD because it simply cannot be anything otherwise.
 
 
Just for a bit of fun, can anyone guess what this Auralis (Euro50k) + Karma (Euro90k speakers) setup has to do with iFi?
 

 

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

You cannot spot the DAC because it is not in the picture. This Euro+150k monster system at the Munich High-End Show quietly demo'd with the micro iDSD as DAC feeding this system. It is hidden behind the MacBook Pro one the right-hand side of the room towards the bottom-right of the top picture.

 
Cheers.
 

   
Hi,
 
Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
 
 
iDAC2 micro - Class A (for line out RCAs only).
 
iDSD micro - some say it's too warm, others it's too sterile compared to Tube Amp's. It is probably about just right to count as neutral (for government work

).
 
When we exhibit at shows, the feedback is pretty much 'Goldilocks' so we think the way we have our demo gear setup is just about spot on with Audio Technica MRS-7 through to the Audeze LCD-X, it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).
 
(Incidentally, we use AN+ and JRMC and always setup as Bit-Perfect for PCM and DSD files)
 
A few customers who have listened to our show rigs are Technobear, Turrican and TF1219 have heard our UK/USA setups at shows and know what kind of sound 'floats our boat.' Not too warm and not too detailed. We like to think of it is 'Goldilocks' or 'just right' (or thereabouts) at least for these 3 bears!
 
 
 
Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
 
Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. We too demo the desktop 'Big Rig' with the iCAN micro always. We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
 
So the micro iDSD from a technical point of view, because it uses battery operation, just cannot perform 'Class A.'  So there will be no change to the micro iDSD because it simply cannot be anything otherwise.
 
 
Just for a bit of fun, can anyone guess what this Auralis (Euro50k) + Karma (Euro90k speakers) setup has to do with iFi?
 

 

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

You cannot spot the DAC because it is not in the picture. This Euro+150k monster system at the Munich High-End Show quietly demo'd with the micro iDSD as DAC feeding this system. It is hidden behind the MacBook Pro one the right-hand side of the room towards the bottom-right of the top picture.

 
Cheers.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post...  I wish the person stating Class A operation on the new iDAC2 wiuld have specified that if was only on the RCA outputs.  As you can tell I am a big fan of all things Class A and now I understand how you have implemented the TPA6120A2 In the iCAN. 
 
I am curious, does the RCA line out when set set to fixed on the iDSD micro run class A similar to how the new iDAC2 operates?  Also does the headphone amplifier in the iDAC2 utilize similar components and circuit topology as those in the iDSD, and does it utilize the same 1793DSD DAC chip as well?

 

[Bwaze]

From the iFi web page:
 
Quote:

  Class A on RCA/Headphones all the way

AMR/iFi’s roots lie in single-ended valve amplification so it is no surprise that the iDAC2 operates in Class A.
The iDAC2’s analogue stage has two special audio grade, Elna Japan Silmic II (the highest available grade and likely the best audio grade electrolytic capacitor money can buy). These are the same ones used in the ‘uber’ AMR machines.
The Analogue stage also uses a discrete, Class A buffer that combines an N-Channel J-Fet and a PNP bi-polar transistor that allows this buffer to handle loads of even 600 Ohms. This was originally designed for the upcoming Pro range so its pedigree is beyond reproach.
Be it on the RCA outputs or the 3.5mm analogue volume potentiometer or headphones, just enjoy the ‘class of Class A’.

 

[iFi audio]

 

 
Hi,
 
Nice spot as the webpage is not live yet.

 
 
We're waiting on the webmaster to come back from the bank holiday break.

 

[Bwaze]

Ah, I apologize, Google found it and I didn't even check if it's already published or not.
 
Would the iDAC2 be preferable to iDSD Micro or Nano for use in a desktop system: computer's USB3 > iDSD2 > integrated amplifier > speakers or rec out to Bottlehead Crack amplifier > Beyerdynamic T1?

I will not use the DAC on the go, so I'm not interested in battery power. I know the iDSD uses 2 DAC chips, supports higher formats (which I don't intend to use for quite some time) and battery only power should be cleaner than USB one... But is the difference in sound quality high enough to justify the price difference?

 

[gr8soundz]

 
We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
 

 
Details please..............

 

[Triodemode]

Class A on RCA/Headphones all the way

AMR/iFi’s roots lie in single-ended valve amplification so it is no surprise that the iDAC2 operates in Class A.
The iDAC2’s analogue stage has two special audio grade, Elna Japan Silmic II (the highest available grade and likely the best audio grade electrolytic capacitor money can buy). These are the same ones used in the ‘uber’ AMR machines.
The Analogue stage also uses a discrete, Class A buffer that combines an N-Channel J-Fet and a PNP bi-polar transistor that allows this buffer to handle loads of even 600 Ohms. This was originally designed for the upcoming Pro range so its pedigree is beyond reproach.
Be it on the RCA outputs or the 3.5mm analogue volume potentiometer or headphones, just enjoy the ‘class of Class A’.

Is the iDAC2 a battery powered unit that gets it's charge from USB similar to the iDSD micro also?  And if so, I thought iFi indicated they would not implement Class A into a battery powered device?