[LoryWiv]

 
For what I know, the difference in DSD filters (which are all analogue) are just how far you will set the low pass filter. Due to the 1 bit nature of DSD, you can't apply any digital processing onto it and therefore analogue filter must be used to cut sampling noise out. The filters selection is just a choice for you to set where to cut off. AFAIK, there never seems to be a common standard on this setting so iFi just let you decide for yourself.
 
PCM filter is however a different matter. Standard filter and Minimum Phase are both common filter you will find on PCM based DAC. Standard gives linear measurement result on frequency response, but often less than ideal on phase and ringing. Minimum Phase doesn't have phase and ringing issue, but tends to roll-off at the upper treble. The audible difference is that often people will find Standard filter a bit sharper and more detailed on the top, but also grainy at time. Sometime people described it as 'digital sounding'. Opposite to Standard filter, Minimum Phase filter can be found on many higher end DAC because it tends to sound smoother and more musical, or 'analog sounding', if you will. Bit-Perfect is basically NOS, or Non-OverSampling. It is not exactly a filter per se but more on how the DAC chip is set to sample the signal. It is kind of complicated to fully explain it but the short version is that the DAC chip won't do extra processing to the signal and no filter is used on the output. Instead, it relies on human natural limitation of hearing to stop us from hearing any sampling noise. Because of how it works, it tends to be quite noisy and lousy on the measurement, but also being described as being the most analog, musical and life-like when compared to the common oversampling DAC (such as when you used the Standard and Minimum Phase filter). When it comes to choice, Standard and Minimum Phase filter have their own pros and cons so there isn't a technically better filter to use (though some manufacturer will argue they have developed better filter than the above two, but that's another story). As with Bit-Perfect filter, it is somewhat of a 'doing the wrong thing but has the right result' deal. Even supporter often can't fully explain why they prefer NOS.
 
The whole point, however, is that these filters are there for you to choose from. Despite all the theory, you get to decide which one you like better.

 

Onca again, that is as clear and helpful an expllanation as I've seen on the digital filter options. Thanks for putting ity in terms I can understand, ClieOS!

 

[daku312]

I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks! 

 

[Sound Eq]

wow i got i think the best ever musical experience the idsd alone gave me shivers with the audeze, and then i amped it with the alo rx mk3 and i was lifted to another dimension of enjoyment, i can't believe what i am hearing amazing soundatsge, warmth, great bass I never ever heard such a great combo in my life knowing i had owned the chord hugo before, I truly am so happy that I think I reached my end game, anyone with the audeze will enjoy this combo greatly, also with the idsd alone, but the combo was beyond my belief i did not even have to eq anything in the onkyo player everything sounding so great and full rich layered and warmth dam I wish you all could hear what I am hearing simply marvelous

 

[tf1216]

  I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks! 

I have heard folks being successful using their USB DACs with JRiver and TIDAL.  To me, it sounds like you are having a problem with your laptop output settings, not your iDSD.
 
Do you have JRiver or another audio program?

 

[daku312]

Thanks for your reply. I do have J River at home but I've been running tidal through the chrome player and the desktop app. It worked for a time and then cut out. The macs recognize the micro in settings and work with other programs (spotify, Audirvana) but not with Tidal.

 

[tf1216]

Which operating system are you using on your MAC?

 

[daku312]

Was on Mountain Lion and tried updating to Yosemite. Same problem on both.

 

[tf1216]

Well, I was reading the comments from this link http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/607-tidal-hifi-revolution-starts-today/comments3.html and it appears people are having success with a similar setup to yours.
 
Maybe try Tidal support as well.  

 

[daku312]

Thanks will do. After updating flash can get the desktop app working but still no luck on the chrome web player.

 

[tf1216]

Good luck daku312.

 

[BillsonChang007]

I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks! 

I uses Micro iDSD on Tidal desktop as well and it works for me. Check the output source at your Tidal setting and set it to iFi Driver.

For Windows, make sure you go to Control Panel -> Hardware & Sound -> Manage Audio. Set iFi as default.

Let me know if it works and happy listening!
Billson

 

[diamondears]

Standard filter reproduce all frequencies without coloration at all (no roll offs with audible frequency range, but steeply/suddenly rolls at the limit of audible hearing--around 20khz), but trade off is there's both pre and post ringing. So it sounds digitally or fatiguing. This is why it is the best performing for objective measurements. So, all details are there with correct timing of all frequencies as per the recording; hence, very musical and PRAT is perfect. Only downside is, as I said, the pre and post-ringings, which sounds digitally or fatiguing to me.

Minimum Phase filter rolls off the higher frequencies and starts doing so at frequencies lower than 20khz (from around 10khz, IIRC), though the rolling off is slow, not suddenly. It's trade-off is it has some time-domain delays of the frequencies. So, objectively, frequency reproduction and timing isn't perfect, this is why it doesn't perform ideally at the measurements.

However, minimum phase filter has NO pre-ringing, which is actually what happens in a live recording. It has post-ringing, but this actually happens in a live recording and IMO helps in imaging/soundstaging and sound decays. Together with the slow roll-off of frequency from 10khz up, this sounds very analogue-like to me; hence, my favorite filter.

Btw, the time domain delays--it happens in a live recording too, and gives out more body and fullness to the lower frequencies, which I'm sure everybody would like.

It's good that people are beginning to look at the importance of digital filters. IMO, the biggest factor in sound quality among the better implemented DACs out there.

My 2 cents.

Cheers.

 

[daku312]

Thanks...got it going with the desktop player. As you suggested, it had to do with the Tidal settings. I do like the web player on Chrome, but i can live without it in the interim. Am not seeing a similar output setting anywhere there or in Chrome settings. Appreciate the tips from all.

 

[BillsonChang007]

Thanks...got it going with the desktop player. As you suggested, it had to do with the Tidal settings. I do like the web player on Chrome, but i can live without it in the interim. Am not seeing a similar output setting anywhere there or in Chrome settings. Appreciate the tips from all.

Enjoy! 

 

 

[Amlalsulami]