[tomscy2000]

   Hi Tom, [...] I hope that helps.

 
Thank you very much for the reply, Dave -- it does help quite a bit in elucidating the finer points, and helps in my gaining a better appreciation for what you guys do. Please forgive me if I overstepped the bounds and became too prying on how the new SR/XR were developed; I understand and respect the need to keep certain details internal to the company. Aside from that, as someone who works in the medical field, I've always supported Etymotic's mandate to preserve hearing; additionally, as a head-fier, I've admired Etymotic's unerring drive to preserve its target response. The science and research behind insert earphones anchor what has now become a massive industry, and while I do believe companies should have the freedom to create earphones with varying sound signatures and responses, I do hope more come back to the fundamentals and figure out how exactly their own house sound evolves from those underpinnings --- especially those concentrated on the enthusiast market. Etymotic is a perennial reminder to everyone that laying the fundamental groundwork creates a solid, lasting (decades long) base from which to work. A few years ago, I took the initiative to read up on the landmark papers published by Dr. Killion and others (like Gunnar Rasmussen, Floyd Toole), and while doing so hasn't led me to be an Etymotic-only listener, it has reshaped the way I approach this hobby. I'm especially glad that people like you on the engineering side are stepping out and actively collecting feedback (while not quantifiable, it can be substantiated) from enthusiasts, and I'm hopeful it leads Etymotic to create better fitting and better sounding products.

 

[AnyDave]

 
 
I mean really, these 6 words killed ER4B,

 
I really do appreciate your enthusiasm for the product.  For what it's worth, the ER4B was originally sold as simply the ER4.  I wasn't at Etymotic at the time, but I don't believe the original ad copy ever referenced binaural recordings.  The ER4S only came about because we had complaints about the original ER4 (now known as the ER4B) being too bright with most of the music they loved.  Not all people felt that way; some people still preferred the ER4B.
 
I believe the model designator B was added along with the "binaural" description was added later as a way to try and explain why there were different models.  We even published a paper explaining the reasoning behind the different target choices.  As always, people can agree or disagree with the methodology and the conclusions. 
 
There are those that love the ER4B and those who love the ER4S and those who love the ER4P.  The ER4S sold significantly more than the ER4B and the ER4P outsold both of them.  This is why we ended up selling multiple products.  Clearly, there is no one product that appeals to all people.  It's the same reason why we just introduced the ER4SR and the ER4XR; sometimes people prefer one model over the other for their own reasons.

 

[FastAndClean]

1. EtyDave

When the new models will be available in Norway?

 

[AnyDave]

 

1. EtyDave

When the new models will be available in Norway?

 
I'm actually not sure.  Let me see what info I can dig up.  For all I know, there might be a distributor for the area that already has some.

 

[FastAndClean]

i really want the new SR

 

[FastAndClean]

1. EtyDave
2. the 75 ohm resistor really improves the sound of my Ortofon Q5, what is the technical explanation of that

 

[AnyDave]

 

1. EtyDave
2. the 75 ohm resistor really improves the sound of my Ortofon Q5, what is the technical explanation of that

 
I've never actually measured the Ortofon Q5s, so I can't say for certain what it is that makes you like it better.  It could have to do with the impedance change and interaction with the balanced armature drivers or the higher impedance could be a better match for your player/amp/dac.
 
What did Ortofon say about it?

 

[FastAndClean]

i just tried, i was curious to find out what will happen, and the soundstage and treble improved drastically, and now i am using them only with the Etymotic adapter, they sound muddy in comparison without the adapter

 

[castleofargh]

 

1. EtyDave
2. the 75 ohm resistor really improves the sound of my Ortofon Q5, what is the technical explanation of that

maybe this can give a few ideas http://www.head-fi.org/t/816311/in-some-rare-cases-headphone-cables-could-make-an-audible-difference#post_12769067
the main idea being exactly what you tried, changing the resistance between the amp and the IEM. having the impedance response over frequency of that particular IEM would let you predict the changes in signature if that is the main cause for the difference in sound.

 

[FastAndClean]

 
maybe this can give a few ideas http://www.head-fi.org/t/816311/in-some-rare-cases-headphone-cables-could-make-an-audible-difference#post_12769067
the main idea being exactly what you tried, changing the resistance between the amp and the IEM. having the impedance response over frequency of that particular IEM would let you predict the changes in signature if that is the main cause for the difference in sound.

 

 
 
thank you sir, the frequency response is changed for sure, flatter bass(no mid bass hump anymore), more upper treble(without the resistor they drop off quickly after 8-9 khz, with the resistor on test tones they still have energy to 14 khz before starting to roll off) and the soundstage is bigger and imaging is more precise, overall bright and extremely clean sounding, with bad recording the sound is a little bit harsh, they have less tolerance, but i prefer them that way, still the ER4 is more natural sounding

 

[castleofargh]

  thank you sir, the frequency response is changed for sure, flatter bass(no mid bass hump anymore), more upper treble(without the resistor they drop off quickly after 8-9 khz, with the resistor on test tones they still have energy to 14 khz before starting to roll off) and the soundstage is bigger and imaging is more precise, overall bright and extremely clean sounding, with bad recording the sound is a little bit harsh, they have less tolerance, but i prefer them that way, still the ER4 is more natural sounding

it's lucky the impedance response is of similar general shape as my example(often like that for single BA driver I've noticed). so from those measurements you can expect a mostly regular boost as frequencies increase, plus the bump at 2.5khz that will create a superior local boost in loudness. that too is lucky as it comes where we need it(the usual recommended boost is 2.7khz I believe) for a more balanced medium. so I do believe you when you say you enjoy the result, maybe 75ohm is too much, and 10 or 15ohm would be enough? but the overall change in signature seems like something I would prefer too. what psycho acoustic impact this has on the soundstage is always difficult to predict. usually more trebles do feel like a more precise soundstage because we locate high frequencies better than low ones.
 
the er4 works like that too, even the er4sr. not the same exact impedance curve or impedance values, but the general shape tell us the trebles will increase in loudness with a higher impedance source(amp and/or cable). but for other IEMs, people must keep in mind that the variation in signature will always follow the shape of the impedance curve. it's not a universal rule that more resistance increases trebles.

 

[MarkF786]

I had a question for current Etymotic owners.  When I look at pictures of people wearing Etymotic IEMs and see how they're essentially long cylinders that stick into the wearer's ears, I often wonder if a person accidentally bumped their heads (and the Etymotics), could the Etymotics be pushed further into their ears and puncture their eardrums.  Is this a realistic concern?
 
With the design of Shure and some other popular IEMs, the shaft that inserts into a persons ears can only go so far, so this risk doesn't exist, but with the Etymotics, it almost looks as risky as walking around with Q-Tips inserted in your ears.

 

[bioyuki]

Just opened up my ER4XR's and my very quick initial thoughts after listening for a few hours (unamped off an iPhone and MBP):
 
Packaging:
 
Much improved compared with the ER-4PT. The new case is nice, and hard side-ish, but it's a little too big and likely not durable enough for me to use as my everyday case.
 
My specific pair:
 

 
 
I'm mixed that Etymotic includes this information. On the pros, I love the attention to detail and stringent quality control aspect of it. On the other hand, for some folks it might cause consternation that their pair isn't 'perfect'. For mine specifically, there's a bit more of a delta on the channel match compared with others in the thread, but it's generally within 1 dB so it's very likely can't hear the difference. Above 10k there's a greater difference, potentially as large as 3-5 dB, but I assume this is in-spec for Etymotic.
 
Curiously, all the data points in this thread show that the THD for most folks is in the 0.5% range or even lower. Strangely, my pair have a much higher THD of 0.77% and 1.05%. Would love your collective thoughts on this, more as a point of interest vs. a quality issue that I can hear in everyday listening. Perhaps some of this is tied to the XRs which have a different BA then the SRs? 
 
The sound:
 
Bear, in mind I lost my ER-4PTs over 4 years ago so I'm trying to recollect my experiences with it. In general, the XR's are pretty much the same Etymotic sound with a a slight, but noticeable bass boost. In that respect, they've pretty much exactly nailed what they were looking to do. It's very early, but I do feel like there's a very, very slight loss in clarity/detail in the mids/highs, but I'm more than happy to make the tradeoff for a bit more bass down low.
 
The bad:
 
The microphonics are still screwing terrible. The lower half of the cable is much softer, and the cable above the Y is smidge softer than before, but it doesn't really change much. Using the shirt clip is pretty much mandatory. It's fine if you're sitting on a plane or at a desk, but if you're doing any walking around or just movement in general, it's terrible. If you're sensitive to microphonics, these IEMs are not the ones for you. I'm really hoping aftermarket solutions become available soon, but given Ety's tweaking of MMCX, I'm not hopeful unless the new SR/XR sell well enough to justify a third party making something specifically for them. 
 
Overall:
 
Etymotic has made some minor updates to a legendary classic, and with the XR, have built an IEM that has greater mass market appeal than the original ER4 series. Switching to more premium materials with the aluminum body and nicer packaging are all welcome additions. However, Ety still falls short of perfection in the overall package. On my wish list are moving to a behind the ear cable solution, option for inline mic/controls, and supporting MMCX without an asterisk.

 

[luisdent]

I had a question for current Etymotic owners.  When I look at pictures of people wearing Etymotic IEMs and see how they're essentially long cylinders that stick into the wearer's ears, I often wonder if a person accidentally bumped their heads (and the Etymotics), could the Etymotics be pushed further into their ears and puncture their eardrums.  Is this a realistic concern?

With the design of Shure and some other popular IEMs, the shaft that inserts into a persons ears can only go so far, so this risk doesn't exist, but with the Etymotics, it almost looks as risky as walking around with Q-Tips inserted in your ears.

I can say this much... I have had something slightly hit me in the ear with the er4s in them. It hurt a little, although nothing serious or lasting. I find it unlikely that you would puncture your eardrum easily, as the shape of the ear is bent and doesn't easily allow the er4 that deep. I'm not saying it is impossible, but it isn't a straight earphone going into a straight ear canal with no resistance... So while possible, I'd say it's unlikely unless you were really slammed in the ear, at just the right angle, in which any iem would probably do damage.

Disclaimer: i am not a medical doctor. So don't listen to me.

Just opened up my ER4XR's and my very quick initial thoughts after listening for a few hours (unamped off an iPhone and MBP):

Packaging:

Much improved compared with the ER-4PT. The new case is nice, and hard side-ish, but it's a little too big and likely not durable enough for me to use as my everyday case.

My specific pair:





I'm mixed that Etymotic includes this information. On the pros, I love the attention to detail and stringent quality control aspect of it. On the other hand, for some folks it might cause consternation that their pair isn't 'perfect'. For mine specifically, there's a bit more of a delta on the channel match compared with others in the thread, but it's generally within 1 dB so it's very likely can't hear the difference. Above 10k there's a greater difference, potentially as large as 3-5 dB, but I assume this is in-spec for Etymotic.

Curiously, all the data points in this thread show that the THD for most folks is in the 0.5% range or even lower. Strangely, my pair have a much higher THD of 0.77% and 1.05%. Would love your collective thoughts on this, more as a point of interest vs. a quality issue that I can hear in everyday listening. Perhaps some of this is tied to the XRs which have a different BA then the SRs? 

The sound:

Bear, in mind I lost my ER-4PTs over 4 years ago so I'm trying to recollect my experiences with it. In general, the XR's are pretty much the same Etymotic sound with a a slight, but noticeable bass boost. In that respect, they've pretty much exactly nailed what they were looking to do. It's very early, but I do feel like there's a very, very slight loss in clarity/detail in the mids/highs, but I'm more than happy to make the tradeoff for a bit more bass down low.

The bad:

The microphonics are still screwing terrible. The lower half of the cable is much softer, and the cable above the Y is smidge softer than before, but it doesn't really change much. Using the shirt clip is pretty much mandatory. It's fine if you're sitting on a plane or at a desk, but if you're doing any walking around or just movement in general, it's terrible. If you're sensitive to microphonics, these IEMs are not the ones for you. I'm really hoping aftermarket solutions become available soon, but given Ety's tweaking of MMCX, I'm not hopeful unless the new SR/XR sell well enough to justify a third party making something specifically for them. 

Overall:

Etymotic has made some minor updates to a legendary classic, and with the XR, have built an IEM that has greater mass market appeal than the original ER4 series. Switching to more premium materials with the aluminum body and nicer packaging are all welcome additions. However, Ety still falls short of perfection in the overall package. On my wish list are moving to a behind the ear cable solution, option for inline mic/controls, and supporting MMCX without an asterisk.

I'm with you on one point. Over ear wear. I absolutely love the pfe112. ety could absolutely learn from their design in both housing and fit. It is the most comfortable iem ever in my opinion with the comply tips. And a side note, in the case of the pfe112 the comply tips actually improve the response. Goldenears verifies what i'm hearing in their graphs.

Anyway, if the er4sr housing or cable or both allowed an ergonomic around the ear fit, it would be awesome. Even if it was simply something like the pfe112 ear guides, shaped to work well with the er4, that would be awesome...

 

[bioyuki]

I'm with you on one point. Over ear wear. I absolutely love the pfe112. ety could absolutely learn from their design in both housing and fit. It is the most comfortable iem ever in my opinion with the comply tips. And a side note, in the case of the pfe112 the comply tips actually improve the response. Goldenears verifies what i'm hearing in their graphs.

Anyway, if the er4sr housing or cable or both allowed an ergonomic around the ear fit, it would be awesome. Even if it was simply something like the pfe112 ear guides, shaped to work well with the er4, that would be awesome...

 
Yeah, over the ear would solve 99% of my issues with the XR. In this price range, it seems like everyone has switched to over the ear except for Ety.