[sphones19]

I thought I might ask for some advice from the Etymotic aficionados on this thread. To make something of a long story short, I'm transitioning away from two channel stereo loudspeakers to a headphone/iem based set up. I had a Benchmark DAC 1 USB and a TTVJ Slim/Pico DAC combo. I used the former for my stereo, and the latter as a portable headphone amping system. 
 
Lately I've been listening quite a bit to my Etymotic HF5s, and I have to say that I really like them. I think they have a good tone. They struggle with some orchestral music (a bit of congestion and a mild feeling strain in dynamic passages with the orchestra heavily engaged), which isn't ideal. I like their bass reproduction for being tuneful and not overdone, but they struggle with the lower register of organs and the bottom 1 or 1 1/2 octaves of a piano. They're excellent with string quartets and even provide a pretty good sound stage with my better quality recordings. For rough $120, I feel quite pleased with them. They're involving with electric guitars, sound good with well recorded percussion, and they're not so pricey that it's a nightmare if I lose them.
 
I was wondering how the ER4Ss (or PTs in S configuration) compare in terms of tuneful bass extension and whether they are able to manage large symphonic pieces with a little less sense of congestion. I'd like to make a modest step up in quality for iems. I've found somewhere I can listen to over-ear headphones, and my search for those (thanks to some good suggestions on head-fi) is proceeding reasonably well. But, there are a bewildering array of iem choices, and I'm not likely to be able to audition many. I'm hoping that the ER4S or PT might be the way forward, since I like the HF5's sound.
 
Any thoughts would be much appreciated. 

 

[takato14]

 

  @Danpyre: The S needs quite a lot of power, mate. It's harder to drive than the HD 800.

ER-4S

1. Impedance @ 1kHz: 100 ohms
2. Sensitivity: 100 dB SPL/V

HD800
 Impedance @ 1kHz: 300 Ω
 Sensitivity: 102db SPL/V
 
Watt?

um the HD800 is more sensitive than the ER-4S and therefore needs less power for the same output level, but that's not the same as being hard to drive
 
the HD800 has a massive impedance fluctuation at 100Hz, it reaches nearly 700 ohms at its peak, it needs a much better amp than the etys
 
look at the impedance plot on tyll's measurements http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

 

[Danpyre]

  um the HD800 is more sensitive than the ER-4S and therefore needs less power for the same output level, but that's not the same as being hard to drive
 
the HD800 has a massive impedance fluctuation at 100Hz, it reaches nearly 700 ohms at its peak, it needs a much better amp than the etys
 
look at the impedance plot on tyll's measurements http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

Exactly XD
Imma drive it with an O2 or something.

 

[thecrow]

I had the same question re er4s before I bought them last month.

No problems using them with my iphone 6.

 

[H20Fidelity]

From my experience ER4S can be driven no problem with a smartphone, iPod, even Sansa Clip they will sound fine, some even prefer this approach. I'm doing basically that atm running ER4S with Pono Player which doesn't have the highest output power, and they do.. sound great - (maybe lacking a little dynamics or overall authority)
 
On the other hand, some of the results I've achieved using Tralucent Dac/Amp One or JDS C421 have been marvelous, whether it be simple boost in volume, added dynamics, higher detail levels, I've heard how well an amped ER4S can carry itself. At one stage I could deliver instant goose bumps / body rushes using Andrea Bocelli tracks and JDS C421.
 
I believe @ClieOS agrees an ER4S with JDS C421 (op amp of choice) is one of the best sounding pairings out there.
 
Over time I became bored with the sound C421 puts out so I sold it, hence why I use Pono Player now. However, I've absolutely heard how well an ER4S can scale with an appropriate amp and correct synergy.
 
My ER4S have performed their time as the 'thrill seeker' for now though.

 

[Danpyre]

I took a look into the thread, and apparently, I've been wearing them wrong.
So, I assume I did it successfully with me left ear, because when I insert it, it gets normal volume, quiet, then normal volume at this one point.
My right ear never gives me the cue, and the left is slightly louder, so the soundstage is just skewed to the left.
SOS Plz help.  I need an experienced earslut to relieve me of my problem.

 

[ozkan]

  I took a look into the thread, and apparently, I've been wearing them wrong.
So, I assume I did it successfully with me left ear, because when I insert it, it gets normal volume, quiet, then normal volume at this one point.
My right ear never gives me the cue, and the left is slightly louder, so the soundstage is just skewed to the left.
SOS Plz help.  I need an experienced earslut to relieve me of my problem.

 
Use different size tips or different tips.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  @Danpyre: The S needs quite a lot of power, mate. It's harder to drive than the HD 800.

ER-4S

1. Impedance @ 1kHz: 100 ohms
2. Sensitivity: 100 dB SPL/V

HD800
 Impedance @ 1kHz: 300 Ω
 Sensitivity: 102db SPL/V
 
Watt?

on ety's website I read:
Impedance (@1kHz)           4B (100 Ohms) 4S (100 Ohms) 4PT (27 Ohms)
Sensitivity (@1 kHz) SPL at 0.1v         4B (90 dB) 4S (90 dB) 4PT (102 dB)
 
going from 0.1v to 1V is +20db in sensitivity. that makes the er4 to still be a good deal more sensitive than a hd800.
wherever you took those values, they got it wrong(sadly very common on websites as soon as it's not the usual db@1mw value).
 
 
 

um the HD800 is more sensitive than the ER-4S and therefore needs less power for the same output level, but that's not the same as being hard to drive  
the HD800 has a massive impedance fluctuation at 100Hz, it reaches nearly 700 ohms at its peak, it needs a much better amp than the etys
 
look at the impedance plot on tyll's measurements http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

nope. 
it's low sensitivity and low impedance that are the hardest to drive as they demand both voltage and current in quantity. if the impedance of the headphone increases, less current will be able to pass through the headphone so it's actually relaxing for the amp on the current part. and voltage/loudness needs will almost not change(all other things being equal and with a good damping ratio).

 

[HiFiChris]

  um the HD800 is more sensitive than the ER-4S and therefore needs less power for the same output level, but that's not the same as being hard to drive
 

 
By harder to drive I meant that the ER-4S is less sensitive than the Sennheiser. And even impedance response-wise, the HD 800 is not necessarily a hard to drive headphone. Connected to a 100 Ohm source, the frequency response gets altered by about 1.2 dB. I haven't measured the Ety yet (and can't as I don't have the 100 Ohm source anymore), but due to the lower impedance and impedance dip above 3 kHz, I bet that the Ety's frequency response will be altered by more than just 1.2 dB.

 

[Danpyre]

[quote name="HiFiChris" url="/t/538615/if-you-still-love-etymotic-er4-this-is-the-thread-for-you/6195#post_11731120
By harder to drive I meant that the ER-4S is less sensitive than the Sennheiser. And even impedance response-wise, the HD 800 is not necessarily a hard to drive headphone. Connected to a 100 Ohm source, the frequency response gets altered by about 1.2 dB. I haven't measured the Ety yet (and can't as I don't have the 100 Ohm source anymore), but due to the lower impedance and impedance dip above 3 kHz, I bet that the Ety's frequency response will be altered by more than just 1.2 dB.
[/quote]
The HD800 is easy to drive compared to an HE-6, electrostats, K1000, Sextett... These aren't exactly fair comparisons, since half of these need speaker amps. You could drive the ER-4S out of, like, a Cmoy, unless you want 115 decibels pumped out at all times.

 

[HiFiChris]

@Danpyre:
 
Yeah, I know that and I listen at low volumes. I just wanted to say that my ER-4S is less sensitive than my HD 800, which is still easier to drive than my Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 600 Ohm (which I could even drive with an iPhone and still get a bit of headroom left for increasing the volume). Though, I haven't heard the HE-6 yet, but according to Tyll's measurements at innerfidelity, it should be about 6 dB quiter than the DT880 Edt. 600 Ohm if I didn't miscalculate.

 

[Danpyre]

@Danpyre
:

Yeah, I know that and I listen at low volumes. I just wanted to say that my ER-4S is less sensitive than my HD 800, which is still easier to drive than my Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 600 Ohm (which I could even drive with an iPhone and still get a bit of headroom left for increasing the volume). Though, I haven't heard the HE-6 yet, but according to Tyll's measurements at innerfidelity, it should be about 6 dB quiter than the DT880 Edt. 600 Ohm if I didn't miscalculate.

Almost any computer can get almost any headphone to deafness inducing volumes. How loud it can get ≠ how well it's powered. This Q701 of mine sounds better on an O2 than with my phone, because it has more power, even though my phone can put it to my preferred volume around 2/3 volume.

 

[Danpyre]

So, my left ear, the ear that I can successfully find the correct place to put it, causing lines to appear on and slightly deforming the tip. Is this normal?

 

[H20Fidelity]

So, my left ear, the ear that I can successfully find the correct place to put it, causing lines to appear on and slightly deforming the tip. Is this normal?

It's not an easy area to advise on because each person is different and the last thing we want on our conscience is any mistakes.

1) When inserted correctly you shouldn't be able to have a conversation with the person in front of you.

2) Dipping you finger in a glass of water then rubbing a triple flange tip to moisten it often helps.

When I remove foam tips after a listening session, they're very deformed yes, it takes some time (maybe 30 minutes) for them to completey expand again. Sadly, they will only compress/decompress so many times before expiring and you should throw them away. You will 'just know' because they'll start resembling an old football shoe, even with added gooeyness.

 

[gnarlsagan]

So, my left ear, the ear that I can successfully find the correct place to put it, causing lines to appear on and slightly deforming the tip. Is this normal?

Your tips are too big. Try something smaller in diameter. I recommend these.