[SXero]

Cause of the smaller surface area the PET they use if much stiffer than the 40mm DD they use in a HD650, There also IEM's can get away with pushing less air but can rival OE headphones. It been a ER4 stereotype that cause It use a driver with very stiff metal foil it can't reproduce bass like a >10mm IEM & any OE headphone.

I can imagine that the Area_eardrum =< Area_driver for equal or greater magnitude of perception. However I had hoped someone would know some good approximation f(x) for this instead of a qualitative statement. I am unsure if stiffness is the only factor - surely is elasticity/diaphram_thickness or so (e.g. unit_diaphram_mass).

 

[syazwaned]

Hi, how does er2se compare with er4xr?

 

[Billyak]

Hi, how does er2se compare with er4xr?

Very well imo. ER4 is better technically but the ER2 have a very natural timbre.

 

[Blackwoof]

Hi, how does er2se compare with er4xr?

The ER4XR much higher detail, bass speed/detail you expect from planar HP.

 

[SXero]

How much of sonic interpretation can be in perception? A rigorous example:

1. While listening some Linkin Park albums (Minutes to Midnight, Meteora) while enhancing the bass region to Er4XR levels (<500Hz steadily increasing from 0dB towards +3.1dB), my Er4SR seemed to 'distort'/clip on-beat on multiple tracks. This was while driving.
2. Weirded out by this finding I tried the same albums on a listening session at home... No clipping to be found, so I made some sub-bass shelf profiles (here < 100Hz; +4dB, +5dB, +6dB) to make sure I got some distortion. Still, could not replicate the 'distorted sound' seemingly found before. Also not on other albums (though haven't listened to my whole collection).
3. How could I perceive distortion on multiple tracks? My latest working theory is that superimposing many details on a bass-drum (some almost annoying example is Imagine Dragons - Radioactive, actively using a distortion-effect/pedal) can create a sense of the Er4-driver not handling it properly.

Conclusions:

• Quite possibly the above happened, because I have not heard such detail in the bass region before. Not even on the Er4XR (which I auditioned those same Linkin Park albums on at serious length, though the Radioactive-finding holds for the XR as well), which I expect to be the result of SR's lower magnitude bass relatively enhancing the details in higher frequency regions.
• Increasing bass on the Er4SR towards +6dB and/or the Er4XR-profile (approximation) is possible without loss of sonic performance.

(@Blackwoof has suggested in this forum also +6dB of sub-bass being possible on his/her Er4SR unit)

 

[ClieOS]

My original ER4S DIY cable that I built back in 2016 has finally fall apart, so it is time to build a replacement. This time, I go slightly fancy with a Tomy Audiophile TYERST connector with a PAPRI GXS-02 coax cable, as well as Vishay Dale CMF55 resistors.

​

 

[Oscarilbo]

Thinking of getting on of these. In fact, excited about it.
I want a pretty neutral signature in my IEM experience, although a bit of bass boost wouldn't mind for a more organic experience. Of both models (SR and XR) which one do you guys feel intuitively sounds more detailed, organic, and natural? I should mention that my music tastes are basically orchestral/instrumental and I listen mainly OST music (film scores) from John Williams to Hans Zimmer.

 

[WilcoRoger]

I’d say go with SR - XR is somewhat bass heavy (that’s its whole raison d’être)

 

[dr cornelius]

Thinking of getting on of these. In fact, excited about it.
I want a pretty neutral signature in my IEM experience, although a bit of bass boost wouldn't mind for a more organic experience. Of both models (SR and XR) which one do you guys feel intuitively sounds more detailed, organic, and natural? I should mention that my music tastes are basically orchestral/instrumental and I listen mainly OST music (film scores) from John Williams to Hans Zimmer.

I would say SR - IMO better at handling dense mixes like a Hans Zimmer score.

 

[Oscarilbo]

Thank you both!

 

[Blackwoof]

How much of sonic interpretation can be in perception? A rigorous example:

1. While listening some Linkin Park albums (Minutes to Midnight, Meteora) while enhancing the bass region to Er4XR levels (<500Hz steadily increasing from 0dB towards +3.1dB), my Er4SR seemed to 'distort'/clip on-beat on multiple tracks. This was while driving.
2. Weirded out by this finding I tried the same albums on a listening session at home... No clipping to be found, so I made some sub-bass shelf profiles (here < 100Hz; +4dB, +5dB, +6dB) to make sure I got some distortion. Still, could not replicate the 'distorted sound' seemingly found before. Also not on other albums (though haven't listened to my whole collection).
3. How could I perceive distortion on multiple tracks? My latest working theory is that superimposing many details on a bass-drum (some almost annoying example is Imagine Dragons - Radioactive, actively using a distortion-effect/pedal) can create a sense of the Er4-driver not handling it properly.

Conclusions:

• Quite possibly the above happened, because I have not heard such detail in the bass region before. Not even on the Er4XR (which I auditioned those same Linkin Park albums on at serious length, though the Radioactive-finding holds for the XR as well), which I expect to be the result of SR's lower magnitude bass relatively enhancing the details in higher frequency regions.
• Increasing bass on the Er4SR towards +6dB and/or the Er4XR-profile (approximation) is possible without loss of sonic performance.

(@Blackwoof has suggested in this forum also +6dB of sub-bass being possible on his/her Er4SR unit)

That was clipping & the insane detail from the BA driver , The 3.5 ~ 6db was to taste the upper limit was 13db of sub bass but my Amp at the time was too weak to cope with the boost. I've seen people get the same thing with planar/electrostatic headphones, with DD headphones it own distortion masks any clipping. It could also be a red flag of seal break since when Crinacle did his ER4XR impression he did the small flanges, The ER2 is DD based so that not a big issue.

 

[SXero]

[...] It could also be a red flag of seal break since when Crinacle did his ER4XR impression he did the small flanges, The ER2 is DD based so that not a big issue.

I can assure you that is not the case. Read on for a different and simpler explanation for why the Er4SR is not clipping with higher bass boosts (+6dB)

1. While listening some Linkin Park albums (Minutes to Midnight, Meteora) while enhancing the bass region to Er4XR levels (<500Hz steadily increasing from 0dB towards +3.1dB), my Er4SR seemed to 'distort'/clip on-beat on multiple tracks. This was while driving.

I had the issue yesterday again, pretty random. A certain track did not have the issue, until my music-app PowerAmp on my phone suddenly switched decoding from 24bit/96kHz to 16bit/48kHz. The app does this sometimes

I could replicate the issue; I have found the single variable. That the 16 bit decoder clips is unexpected, probably some software issue. I have tested the 24bit-phone-output against my Logitech Z5500 speaker-amplifier with negligible sonic difference [also my amp warms up like when it is driving the speakers; EDIT; though I read here on Head-Fi it really doesn't amplify the signal more than being a volume guage?].

 

[castleofargh]

That was clipping & the insane detail from the BA driver , The 3.5 ~ 6db was to taste the upper limit was 13db of sub bass but my Amp at the time was too weak to cope with the boost. I've seen people get the same thing with planar/electrostatic headphones, with DD headphones it own distortion masks any clipping. It could also be a red flag of seal break since when Crinacle did his ER4XR impression he did the small flanges, The ER2 is DD based so that not a big issue.

Any transducer will have a point where it runs out of place to go because of physical constraints. +6dB in the subs when listening at 70dB SPL is easier for the driver than 115dB SPL and no EQ. The limits you find are most likely for a particular listening level.
The amp is another story but of course it's still relevant as in some cases, the distortions could come from the amp being pushed too much into a given load.

 

[Blackwoof]

I had the issue yesterday again, pretty random. A certain track did not have the issue, until my music-app PowerAmp on my phone suddenly switched decoding from 24bit/96kHz to 16bit/48kHz. The app does this sometimes

I could replicate the issue; I have found the single variable. That the 16 bit decoder clips is unexpected, probably some software issue. I have tested the 24bit-phone-output against my Logitech Z5500 speaker-amplifier with negligible sonic difference [also my amp warms up like when it is driving the speakers; EDIT; though I read here on Head-Fi it really doesn't amplify the signal more than being a volume guage?].

I would try doing this on Foobar2K on your PC with lossless files since mobile phones can hit or miss. The diaphragm on the ER4SR is metal foil a engineer on Reddit, Said that why the ER4XR can muster 4db cause it too stiff to output more than that through a vented driver but with EQ it can do 12db no issue. Yeah it sounds like a glitch my Sony DAP way more stable, but I only use 160 ~ 224kbps VBR MP3 on It.

 

[Blackwoof]

Any transducer will have a point where it runs out of place to go because of physical constraints. +6dB in the subs when listening at 70dB SPL is easier for the driver than 115dB SPL and no EQ. The limits you find are most likely for a particular listening level.
The amp is another story but of course it's still relevant as in some cases, the distortions could come from the amp being pushed too much into a given load.

The ER4/ER3 is <0.3% for bass even with the 4db boost on the BA XR versions, Etymotic IEM's are infamous for being very picky with amp's. The ER3XR THD chart posted few pages ago look's like someone captured eardrum flex since I remember get distortion bursts in some songs on my ER4SR & ER3XR, Turns out It was my ear drum flexing from SPL pressure shifts. Since I highly doubt that ER3XR was 0.98% from 20 ~ 990Hz.

This one of the reasons why I doubt you can get a Hifiman Sundara or LCD2c sound like HD650 without the planar sound showing. Since my ER2SE bass wise still sounds different to my ER3XR, even when I up It to 4db like on the 3XR/4XR.