[musickid]

i feel happier now.

 

[Triode User]

@Rob Watts Not hard on me at all, this is the answer I want to hear! Designers stepping up and provide the OQE and/or justification to their design decisions! These many days at home with my system is making the "WHAT IF" rattle through my brain. But you've got the many years, decades of investigating all the what if's, so I appreciate your answer .

Just to clarify - you mention to reduce coupling currents, one of the decisions is to preclude an earth for these systems and couple via AC neutral. DAVE has an earth, as well as many of the Chord amps, from low to high end. What benefit comes from choosing an SMPS with no earth for the TT2 & M-Scaler?

Although Dave has an earth (taken to the chassis), the positive and negative low voltage supply rails from the SMPS in Dave are floating voltages with no reference to mains positive, negative or earth. The SMPS in Dave is therefore similar in how it is connected except that it is within the Dave box and the TT2 / Mscaler are stand alone items.

 

[Rob Watts]

@Rob Watts Not hard on me at all, this is the answer I want to hear! Designers stepping up and provide the OQE and/or justification to their design decisions! These many days at home with my system is making the "WHAT IF" rattle through my brain. But you've got the many years, decades of investigating all the what if's, so I appreciate your answer .

Just to clarify - you mention to reduce coupling currents, one of the decisions is to preclude an earth for these systems and couple via AC neutral. DAVE has an earth, as well as many of the Chord amps, from low to high end. What benefit comes from choosing an SMPS with no earth for the TT2 & M-Scaler?

So note I am talking about the M scaler connected to a DAC, and this 2GHz problem; this doesn't really apply with Dave and amps together.

So as to the SMPS chosen for TT2 - I tested and evaluated lots of PSUs, in particular for out of band distortion and noise problems when measuring with the AP (which of course is grounded). There was only one that gave identical HF performance to a battery - and that was the one I chose for TT2. It happened to be not grounded, which probably played a part in the measured performance. Now for the M scaler, it's a different problem - we are not worried about noise and distortion below 1MHz, but how well it isolates 2GHz. And because the TT2 PSU coupling capacitance to mains was low, and it didn't have a ground, meant that it was the best for H M scaler too.

The benefits of no ground are that it is the ground that forms the loop for current to flow. If no ground, then its capacitively coupled to neutral which is then connected to ground within your house ground point - some distance away from your Hi-Fi. The extra distance means the 2GHz impedance is higher, further reducing the 2GHz currents. It's for sure a small benefit, but benefit nonetheless.

 

[GreenBow]

Came across a cool track recently.

 

[Icenine2]

I've had this a few weeks now. To me it has opened up quite a bit more here. Not sure if its the amp, the DAC or both. Bass seems to have exploded over the past few days. Super happy here with this. The lights are beyond fun listening in the dark.

 

[RustyGates]

EDIT1: Rob Watts explains a few posts later why the SMPS is actually superior and what appears as detail to me is actually RF and commonly fools listeners.

Do not use the Super3 on the HMS. The SMPS is required to isolate 2GHz noise generated by the M-Scaler, from affecting the connected DAC via the mains path by capacitive coupling to earth. In fact, any possibility of capacitve coupling within the Super3 is the last of your worries because the Super3 output is actually grounded to chassis & earth via a 10ohm resistor. Anyway, you don't need such a low noise LPS for a digital device like the HMS, the supplied SMPS will do; the power regulation and filtering within the HMS is fit for purpose for what the HMS does. Analogue systems on the other hand, is a different story.

 

[Law87]

Yes, as you posted later it got better.

All Chord DACs that I bought sounded bright and metallic at first. As others have said, it's just about getting used to more detail, transparency, and transients.

It took me at least a week with each to settle down. I first bought Mojo, then Hugo 2, and then TT2. It took me a lot longer to fully adjust with each upgrade as well. However the journey was worth it the wait, and as you said you noticed adjustment already.

In the end, as long as your partnering kit is fine, all should be well. The TT2 will smooth out, be warm and dynamic, while being massively detailed.

since you have the Hugo 2, can you give me the difference you see? I'm currently using my hugo 2 as DAC while feeding it to the THX 887, curious to see how big the gap is.

 

[absolutk]

Do not use the Super3 on the HMS. The SMPS is required to isolate 2GHz noise through the mains path. You don't need such a low noise LPS for a digital device like the HMS, the SMPS will do; the power regulation and filtering within the HMS is fit for purpose for what the HMS does. Analogue systems on the other hand, is a different story.

I agree. I will be switching back (no pun intended ) and returning the Super3s. Perhaps I will get an extra SMPS from the dealer and try to attach a barrel jack on it if I want to scratch my DIY-improvement itch. I think fewer people will disagree that there might be advantages to be found there .

 

[RustyGates]

I agree. I will be switching back (no pun intended ) and returning the Super3s. Perhaps I will get an extra SMPS from the dealer and try to attach a barrel jack on it if I want to scratch my DIY-improvement itch. I think fewer people will disagree that there might be advantages to be found there .

To be clear - the Super3 for the TT2 can most definitely be beneficial, just not for the M-Scaler.

 

[number1sixerfan]

since you have the Hugo 2, can you give me the difference you see? I'm currently using my hugo 2 as DAC while feeding it to the THX 887, curious to see how big the gap is.

Would also like to hear from anyone that's heard or had both..

 

[Triode User]

Do not use the Super3 on the HMS. The SMPS is required to isolate 2GHz noise generated by the M-Scaler, from affecting the connected DAC via the mains path by capacitive coupling to earth. In fact, any possibility of capacitve coupling within the Super3 is the last of your worries because the Super3 output is actually grounded to chassis & earth via a 10ohm resistor. Anyway, you don't need such a low noise LPS for a digital device like the HMS, the supplied SMPS will do; the power regulation and filtering within the HMS is fit for purpose for what the HMS does. Analogue systems on the other hand, is a different story.

RW correctly pointed out the merits of the factory supplied SMPS for the HMS. However I have just had a housebound weekend listening to different power supplies with the HMS and my ears have concluded that whilst the supplied SMPS is very good IMHO it is possible improve on it. The session was prompted because I had to hand separate 15v, -15v and 5v voltage outputs on a range of power supplies for switching between them on a high end DAC (some of you might guess what I was doing).

The power supplies I used were the factory supplied SMPS, a SMPS similar to the one in Dave, adding ferrited DC cables between the SMPSs and HMS, a Sean Jacobs DC3 LPS and finally a Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. These LPS have earthed chassis for safety but the output is not linked to ground and is floating. To my ears there was a progression of sound quality through the power supplies apart from the first two which were effectively the same to my ears. For all this I judged sound quality by top end smoothness as well as a reduction in bass muddiness and greater perceived bass depth.

For sure, there is a frustration when people report more 'detail' or a 'bigger soundstage' or some such and claim this is better when in reality they are just noise artifacts from inferior power supplies but equally what I heard over the weekend was enough for me to order a DC4 supply for my HMS from Sean Jacobs at Custom HiFi Cables.

 

[lawshredpower]

I’m having what I think is a ground loop problem with my TT 2.

It may take a while to explain the issue, please bear with me.

This only happens when I plug my KSE1200 into the TT2. I cannot hear the hum in any other headphones.

Here’s the setup:

Mac mini with roon -> TT 2 -> rca out -> Shure KSE1200

There’s a very noticeable hum. The hum stops when I touch the KSE1200 amp or the Mac mini chassis or the TT 2 chassis.


Funny thing is, I had this problem in the past and my fix does not work anymore. When I used to own a Hugo 2 instead of a TT 2 this was chain:

Mac mini -> Hugo 2 (two usb ports - data and charging) -> Shure KSE1200

I used to solve the issue with an iFi AC Purifier + iFi Groundhog+ plugged into an USB port in the mac mini.

Now, with the TT2, the hum still continues with the now grounded mac mini with AC Purifier and Groundhog+.


How should I solve that? The groundhog+ comes with a spade converter to connect into the TT 2 PSU plug but I’m afraid that could damage my brand new dac.

Maybe a more experienced user or Mr. @Rob Watts can shed some light into this matter.


Thanks everyone.

 

[GreenBow]

since you have the Hugo 2, can you give me the difference you see? I'm currently using my hugo 2 as DAC while feeding it to the THX 887, curious to see how big the gap is.

I did a lot of posts comparing Hugo 2 with TT2. If you search this thread and the Hugo 2 thread, you will find them.

With the search function in the top right of the page, you can narrow searches down to which thread. (Also to which Head-Fi user, meaning you can search for just posts by me) Searching for posts Hugo 2 vs TT2 by myself, I returned nine links. You should try that.

 

[hypnos1]

Well @Law87 and @number1sixerfan , for what it's worth my recent foray into a TT2 after my joy at how Hugo2 performed as DAC still has me in a spin...much more so in fact than I anticipated. Not being over impressed with H2's direct hp out, even though still very good compared to Mojo, I was however impressed with how it improved the sound from my Feliks-Audio Euforia (with tubes performing way above stock configuration) and Meze Empyreans (a very good combination). And despite the oft quoted 'adding coloration/distortion', my - and many others' ears preferred the final sound.

Thus, I was expecting massive improvement from TT2 as DAC instead. In short, although there is indeed improvement, it's not quite to the degree I anticipated. However, it's now clear that my hp amp is simply no match for Rob Watts's stroke of genius, because TT2's direct headphone out is not only way ahead of Hugo2's, but has also made my years of trials to improve my amp's performance now totally redundant...it's that good!

And so, Mr @Rob Watts , your genius is truly a double-edged sword alas! But one I only wish I'd had the funds for some years back when you shone a bright light on the TT2 at CanJam London...subsequently reinforced by most opinions re. said wonder vs. Hugo2 + m-scaler. I now regret those lost years big time. But now am much more encouraged to save up for an m-scaler (not having a mother-in-law to sell lol!).

By the way RW - and hoping not to add to your frustration re. the alternative power supply chestnut (and if you can spare your precious time), I would appreciate your take on the supplied SMPS's cables. Given low impedance being the order of the day for all audio power cable wire, could the apparent rather thin nature of both its cables be falling foul in any way at all due to the unwelcome higher resistance? And if so - even if only slightly - would there be any merit in Chord asking the manufacturer to change them for 'beefier'/lower impedance ones?...(simply out of curiosity)....many thanks in advance...

And in the name of discounting 'fake news' lol, may I post my now treasured photo from that fateful London encounter :



ps. My heartfelt thanks for bringing this product to market for us all here to enjoy, and best wishes to you also for a trouble-free ride in face of the current health crisis...

 

[k3kz]

I’m having what I think is a ground loop problem with my TT 2.

It may take a while to explain the issue, please bear with me.

This only happens when I plug my KSE1200 into the TT2. I cannot hear the hum in any other headphones.

Here’s the setup:

Mac mini with roon -> TT 2 -> rca out -> Shure KSE1200

There’s a very noticeable hum. The hum stops when I touch the KSE1200 amp or the Mac mini chassis or the TT 2 chassis.


Funny thing is, I had this problem in the past and my fix does not work anymore. When I used to own a Hugo 2 instead of a TT 2 this was chain:

Mac mini -> Hugo 2 (two usb ports - data and charging) -> Shure KSE1200

I used to solve the issue with an iFi AC Purifier + iFi Groundhog+ plugged into an USB port in the mac mini.

Now, with the TT2, the hum still continues with the now grounded mac mini with AC Purifier and Groundhog+.


How should I solve that? The groundhog+ comes with a spade converter to connect into the TT 2 PSU plug but I’m afraid that could damage my brand new dac.




Maybe a more experienced user or Mr. @Rob Watts can shed some light into this matter.


Thanks everyone.

Hi! Noticed the same thing with LCD-i4. According to support, it's common/nothing to worry about. I got a Groundhog+ and am using the spade connector too (it wraps around the PSU connector) - problem solved. Chord support "approved of" the solution.