[ToonMechaMan]

Dang, was originally planning on settling for the TT 2 but am definitely going to save up more for the DAVE.

 

[Triode User]

On the other hand, Paul seems to have word from the horse's mouth that it isn't cool to drive 16-20 watts full time. I don't want to blow a brand new TT2 on a fun experiment.

Take what Paul says with a big pinch of salt. There is no amp in this world that I know of that can stand being driven at its full specified output continuously. The rated output of an amp is not defined as the outout which can be driven continuously but rather is the output at a defined distortion, 1% in the case of TT2. So when you say that Paul has “word from the horse’s mouth that it isn’t cool to drive 16-20 Watts full time” then that should not be a criticism of TT2 because that applies to ANY amp not to run it at full rated power continuously.

The TT2 can be driven higher than the rated output but the distortion will be higher. My own suspicion is that Paul was driving his TT2 much higher than the rated output and he was then suggested to use the SE output instead which would be a way of limiting the output that Paul could use. Of course he could have just turned down the volume when it first got hot and tripped out but he appeared unwilling to do that, hence I guess the suggestion to use the SE output.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[Lgn3]

Take what Paul says with a big pinch of salt. There is no amp in this world that I know of that can stand being driven at its full specified output continuously. The rated output of an amp is not defined as the outout which can be driven continuously but rather is the output at a defined distortion, 1% in the case of TT2. So when you say that Paul has “word from the horse’s mouth that it isn’t cool to drive 16-20 Watts full time” then that should not be a criticism of TT2 because that applies to ANY amp not to run it at full rated power continuously.

The TT2 can be driven higher than the rated output but the distortion will be higher. My own suspicion is that Paul was driving his TT2 much higher than the rated output and he was then suggested to use the SE output instead which would be a way of limiting the output that Paul could use. Of course he could have just turned down the volume when it first got hot and tripped out but he appeared unwilling to do that, hence I guess the suggestion to use the SE output.

Hope that clarifies.

I am glad that the misinformation regarding the use of the Hugo TT2's potential to output 18w through the balanced connections has been corrected by @Triode User. However, as I have posted previously, it really would be in the interests of Chord Electronics as well as customers if the online Hugo TT2 manual is updated to give official guidance regarding connecting speakers to the TT2. In the absence of that I suspect there will be continued confusion amongst customers and ill informed rumour spreading through this and other forums.

 

[paul2qute]

But I saw it. You probably made the correct decision.

Well spotted mate, the correct decision would be to cut the cable and not had the slices but the problem I've got is the cable wouldn't be long enough to reach my hugo TT 2,drilling the back of the XLR is a fantastic idea, never thought of that and it would of looked much better

 

[Triode User]

I am glad that the misinformation regarding the use of the Hugo TT2's potential to output 18w through the balanced connections has been corrected by @Triode User. However, as I have posted previously, it really would be in the interests of Chord Electronics as well as customers if the online Hugo TT2 manual is updated to give official guidance regarding connecting speakers to the TT2. In the absence of that I suspect there will be continued confusion amongst customers and ill informed rumour spreading through this and other forums.

The way I see it is that driving speakers direct from TT2 is not a primary function for the TT2. I suspect that the extra power was initially intended to satisfy the need to to connect to harder to drive headphones. Various people have been driving speakers direct from Dave and other Chord DACs for quite a while but this is not their intended function and to a certain extent those who do this are 'off piste' and are using the DACs in a way that they were not designed for. If TT2 had been designed to connect to speakers then surely one would expect speaker outlets on the back of the TT2. There are no speaker outlets on the TT2 and I think that gives a clear indication.

I see Rob here slightly as being a victim of his own personal willingness to share information to those who share his quest to get better and better sound quality. Rob has shared how he personally uses the TT2 to drive his own B&W speakers but one has to appreciate that this is NOT the same as Chord Electronics vouching that the TT2 is suitable for use as a device to drive speakers direct. Also, we do not know how loud Rob listens to his music so just because Rob does it does not mean it is suitable for others to do the same, EVEN with exactly the same speakers or different speakers with the same sensitivity.

I would say to beware pushing Rob or Chord too far on this because I can see one possible outcome which will be that Chord would modify their user instructions to explicitly state that the TT2 is not designed to drive speakers direct. And Rob might withdraw from his giving of helpful and friendly thoughts and advice about obtaining better SQ. He has already hinted at this.

Just my 2p.

 

[Lgn3]

The way I see it is that driving speakers direct from TT2 is not a primary function for the TT2. I suspect that the extra power was initially intended to satisfy the need to to connect to harder to drive headphones. Various people have been driving speakers direct from Dave and other Chord DACs for quite a while but this is not their intended function and to a certain extent those who do this are 'off piste' and are using the DACs in a way that they were not designed for. If TT2 had been designed to connect to speakers then surely one would expect speaker outlets on the back of the TT2. There are no speaker outlets on the TT2 and I think that gives a clear indication.

I see Rob here slightly as being a victim of his own personal willingness to share information to those who share his quest to get better and better sound quality. Rob has shared how he personally uses the TT2 to drive his own B&W speakers but one has to appreciate that this is NOT the same as Chord Electronics vouching that the TT2 is suitable for use as a device to drive speakers direct. Also, we do not know how loud Rob listens to his music so just because Rob does it does not mean it is suitable for others to do the same, EVEN with exactly the same speakers or different speakers with the same sensitivity.

I would say to beware pushing Rob or Chord too far on this because I can see one possible outcome which will be that Chord would modify their user instructions to explicitly state that the TT2 is not designed to drive speakers direct. And Rob might withdraw from his giving of helpful and friendly thoughts and advice about obtaining better SQ. He has already hinted at this.

Just my 2p.

I am not sure that I agree that people who are driving speakers with a Hugo TT2 are somehow using their unit in a way that was not intended. Here is a link to a video of Rob Watts introducing the Hugot TT2 at High End Munich 2018.

https://darko.audio/2018/05/john-franks-rob-watts-talk-chord-hugo-tt-2-etude/

From about 2mins. 25 seconds he talks explicitly about driving speakers connected to the XLR's.. Basically he describes the Hugo TT2 as having three functions: 1. DAC 2.Headphone Amp. 3.Ampllfier to drive efficient speakers. Ever since the specs were revealed numerous websites have taken this up and talked about the capability of the TT2 to drive speakers. In fact i would suggest it has been seen as a particular selling point.

My two posts are merely a request for clarity and are not a criticism of Chord as a company or this product.

 

[Triode User]

I am not sure that I agree that people who are driving speakers with a Hugo TT2 are somehow using their unit in a way that was not intended. Here is a link to a video of Rob Watts introducing the Hugot TT2 at High End Munich 2018.

https://darko.audio/2018/05/john-franks-rob-watts-talk-chord-hugo-tt-2-etude/

From about 2mins. 25 seconds he talks explicitly about driving speakers connected to the XLR's.. Basically he describes the Hugo TT2 as having three functions: 1. DAC 2.Headphone Amp. 3.Ampllfier to drive efficient speakers. Ever since the specs were revealed numerous websites have taken this up and talked about the capability of the TT2 to drive speakers. In fact i would suggest it has been seen as a particular selling point.

My two posts are merely a request for clarity and are not a criticism of Chord as a company or this product.

Fair enough. I will duck out and let @Rob Watts comment if he can.

However it still seems to me that the 'issues' experienced by one person so far are maybe no different to the issues associated with any low power amplifier. And in the case of TT2 I suspect that it may be that its design means that unlike other amplifiers its distortion does not climb dramatically when driven beyond its rated output and this might mean that users can over drive it if not careful because there is little or no audible warning given that the amp is being driven too hard, ie no audible increased distortion. Hence the thermal cut is there to protect the TT2. Other amplifiers without this protection might have carried on with the user being unaware of there being any 'issues' only to have the device self distruct eventually with fried internals because it was being driven too hard.

The sensible advice and surely something which does not need saying is that if the thermal cut out in the TT2 operates then turn the volume down far enough until it stops happening. How difficult is it to come to that conclusion?

 

[JamieMcC]

Triode User I liked your 'off piste' terminology and think its quiet apt. My current speakers are 12" 100db Bastanis Mandalas in a open baffle configuration with tweeter and with separately amped 15" bass units. They sound really sweet with my 2W Bottlehead Sex Sets amp and a 10W Nelson Pass ACA has a slightly better grip and speed but not quiet the presence and sweetness of the Sex amp. The TT2 is looks very appealing for off piste use I am in no rush to buy and will be looking forward to seeing a bit more feed back on the boards first.

 

[Lgn3]

Fair enough. I will duck out and let @Rob Watts comment if he can.

However it still seems to me that the 'issues' experienced by one person so far are maybe no different to the issues associated with any low power amplifier. And in the case of TT2 I suspect that it may be that its design means that unlike other amplifiers its distortion does not climb dramatically when driven beyond its rated output and this might mean that users can over drive it if not careful because there is little or no audible warning given that the amp is being driven too hard, ie no audible increased distortion. Hence the thermal cut is there to protect the TT2. Other amplifiers without this protection might have carried on with the user being unaware of there being any 'issues' only to have the device self distruct eventually with fried internals because it was being driven too hard.

The sensible advice and surely something which does not need saying is that if the thermal cut out in the TT2 operates then turn the volume down far enough until it stops happening. How difficult is it to come to that conclusion?

You and I might think so but there is no accounting for what ill treatment some people will subject their equipment to ! We are in agreement about the issues we have been reading about. All I am suggesting is that the manual includes the correct instructions for wiring speakers and a warning (which to repeat should not be needed but seemingly is) that in the event of the unit closing down it should be used at lower volumes, as you have said.

 

[SCOTTY1]

I am not sure that I agree that people who are driving speakers with a Hugo TT2 are somehow using their unit in a way that was not intended. Here is a link to a video of Rob Watts introducing the Hugot TT2 at High End Munich 2018.

https://darko.audio/2018/05/john-franks-rob-watts-talk-chord-hugo-tt-2-etude/

From about 2mins. 25 seconds he talks explicitly about driving speakers connected to the XLR's.. Basically he describes the Hugo TT2 as having three functions: 1. DAC 2.Headphone Amp. 3.Ampllfier to drive efficient speakers. Ever since the specs were revealed numerous websites have taken this up and talked about the capability of the TT2 to drive speakers. In fact i would suggest it has been seen as a particular selling point.

My two posts are merely a request for clarity and are not a criticism of Chord as a company or this product.

+1
I'm interested in whether Mr. Watts drives his speakers because it is optimal - within his strictures re. efficiency and volume, as in one fewer box in the chain is always better - or as an illustration that in the unlikely event that you have a £4k DAC but cannot access quality amplification, driving directly is an option. If it's the first, then it's a paradigm shift and Vovatix and Klipsch can expect sales to boom.
I suspect that it will take a year at least until empirical evidence provides an answer. It's amusing that the tortuous and painful to read, "bull in a china shop", approach of a certain member, has moved this issue forward. So, thanks for that. Even funnier, is the fact that I use ATC Actives, so why should I care ? It's called the retiree with too much time on their hands issue.
Mr. Triode, how should I set up my TT2 re. the ATC's when it finally arrives ?

 

[Triode User]

Mr. Triode, how should I set up my TT2 re. the ATC's when it finally arrives ?

I have active ATC speakers and of course they only have XLR inputs so I suggest you just use the existing XLR leads you have and and plug them direct into the TT2 XLR outlets instead of into your preamp. That is the way I use my Dave with my ATC actives.

 

[SCOTTY1]

I have active ATC speakers and of course they only have XLR inputs so I suggest you just use the existing XLR leads you have and and plug them direct into the TT2 XLR outlets instead of into your preamp. That is the way I use my Dave with my ATC actives.

It was more re. Hi or Lo gain.

 

[GreenBow]

I am not sure that I agree that people who are driving speakers with a Hugo TT2 are somehow using their unit in a way that was not intended. Here is a link to a video of Rob Watts introducing the Hugot TT2 at High End Munich 2018.

https://darko.audio/2018/05/john-franks-rob-watts-talk-chord-hugo-tt-2-etude/

From about 2mins. 25 seconds he talks explicitly about driving speakers connected to the XLR's.. Basically he describes the Hugo TT2 as having three functions: 1. DAC 2.Headphone Amp. 3.Ampllfier to drive efficient speakers. Ever since the specs were revealed numerous websites have taken this up and talked about the capability of the TT2 to drive speakers. In fact i would suggest it has been seen as a particular selling point.

My two posts are merely a request for clarity and are not a criticism of Chord as a company or this product.

Yeah, have to agree with you.

It's exactly the same with audio amplifiers. You don't run them at max volume until the sound distorts. Firstly, even if you speakers are capable of accepting the wattage load, distortion can destroy speakers. Secondly it's why folk sometimes buy slightly louder amplifiers, so they can keep volume half or under. Thirdly amplifiers can sometimes harden in the sound at higher volume levels, long before distortion comes in.

I am not saying the TT 2 is no good for driving speakers. As I said I agree with @Lgn3. It's just best not to expect to push volume all the way to full.


I currently have 86dB speakers, and @miketlse has the same sensitivity and drives from the Hugo 2. It means I could safely expect to drive my speakers essentially near-field (on my desk) from TT2. Therefor I advocate it.

 

[Triode User]

It was more re. Hi or Lo gain.

Don't know. Try the low gain and see if you have enough volume range?

Or cancel the TT2 and get a Dave, you know it makes sense and you would not have the dilemma?

 

[SCOTTY1]

Don't know. Try the low gain and see if you have enough volume range?

Or cancel the TT2 and get a Dave, you know it makes sense and you would not have the dilemma?

I know what you mean. I'm trading in my ATC CA2 for the DAC/Pre functionality of the TT2. If I like it, I'll get a Dave 2. It's the ATC's where the real action is for me though, the ancillaries less so.