[lwells]

Please pardon my ignorance of Chord’s higher end. I’m coming from a mojo (that I love to death).

I had the pleasure of spending about five minutes with the H2tt today. The phones at the stand were the audeze lcd4. I used my ciems however (Alclair studio 4) and had crossfeed off. I listened with the lcd4 two days ago. I think it was a very nice pairing.

I wanted to listen to something I know well. I choose Daft Punk “lose yourself to dance”. The soundstage is bigger in every direction. What stuck me immediately was how “tall” it felt. That’s new to me. I didn’t expect that. There is significantly more space between “everything”. I think this is the least “stuffy” I’ve ever felt with iems. It was super relaxing and I think that really pulled me deeper into just enjoying the music as opposed to being analytical about the equipment.

The song itself is very engaging, but it’s obvious that the H2tt is very musical. I have no Hugo experience, but I’ve heard people sometimes say the mojos musicality is lost. I definitely do not feel that way with what I heard of the H2tt. If anything, the spacious stage, air, and punchier more highly textured low end made the H2tt A blast to listen to.

I have a feeling these are going to sell very well.

 

[Bill13]

For loudspeaker use I would use the balanced stereo XLR audio output connectors.
TT 2 spec says Output power (balanced): 18W RMS 8Ω.
I think that pin 2 of each XLR is positive, and pin 3 is negative polarity - gives highest output power for either headphone or loudspeaker usage. IMO, should be easy to adapt XLR connectors to connect to loudspeakers.

If this Hugo TT 2 DAC were to become available in the USA at say, $4000, then I'd go for it !
Unfortunately, it's likely to be priced near $6000 in USA including the domestic middle-man importer/distributor markup -- because price is 4000 pounds in UK). I'd rather pay less for a TT2 with more cost-effective simpler bare-bones case-work.
I understood Rob Watts to say that more than half the price of Chord DACS was due to the fancy machined solid-block aluminum enclosures.

If somebody has a new Hugo TT 2 for $4000 in the USA, please let me know....

 

[GreenBow]

DAC mode - outputs are fixed to 2.5v (RCA) 5v RMS (XLR). Volume is disabled.
Low gain mode: This changes the gain of the amplifier, and limits the output to a maximum of 3V RMS RCA (6V RMS XLR).
Use the volume control: So setting the volume to -3dB will limit it to 3v RMS, exactly the same as Dave and Hugo 2; so just 4 clicks down (-7 dB) will mean 1.9v RMS maximum.

Although I've quoted Rob's post, please can anyone help. I'd like to know about an aspect of the TT2, and the DAVE if it's the same.

It's about something from Rob's presentation, and this quote of Rob's above. In Rob's presentation he says, "Hugo TT 2 has a very high power discrete OP stage integrated into the DAC output amplifier and filter".

Also with all this talk about the TT2 having lots of power output. It leaves me wondering if there is an amplifier in the TT2. ......... Whereas I with the Mojo, output is taken straight from the DAC output, with no amplifier involved. I thought it was the same with the Hugo 2 and all Chord DACs. I'm not sure now.


I've quoted Rob's post above to make easy reference. If you run from RCA, with the TT2, does it mean going through an amplifier. If there is an amplifier there? Or does it run just straight from the DAC output, like the Mojo?

Or (as per Rob's post), does it bypass amplification (if there is amplification) in DAC mode.


Sorry I am so confused.

 

[Amberlamps]

Has anyone pre-order it yet? And what headphones are you going to use? Imagine TT 2 with something like Abyss Phi, The sound wow : who does need electrostatic?

My credit card says

NO!

With regards to the headphones and to preordering.

Will probably get mine for xmas, santa does not yet know what he will be delivering, but I do

 

[JaZZ]

Although I've quoted Rob's post, please can anyone help. I'd like to know about an aspect of the TT2, and the DAVE if it's the same.

It's about something from Rob's presentation, and this quote of Rob's above. In Rob's presentation he says, "Hugo TT 2 has a very high power discrete OP stage integrated into the DAC output amplifier and filter".

Also with all this talk about the TT2 having lots of power output. It leaves me wondering if there is an amplifier in the TT2. ......... Whereas I with the Mojo, output is taken straight from the DAC output, with no amplifier involved. I thought it was the same with the Hugo 2 and all Chord DACs. I'm not sure now.


I've quoted Rob's post above to make easy reference. If you run from RCA, with the TT2, does it mean going through an amplifier. If there is an amplifier there? Or does it run just straight from the DAC output, like the Mojo?

Or (as per Rob's post), does it bypass amplification (if there is amplification) in DAC mode.

Yes, there's a line-stage amplifier in every Chord DAC, and it also serves as a headphone amp with all of them. So the same from Mojo up to DAVE.

 

[miketlse]

I understood Rob Watts to say that more than half the price of Chord DACS was due to the fancy machined solid-block aluminum enclosures.

Interesting.
Where did he say that?

 

[Amberlamps]

I can confirm that aluminum billets are £Ssss and then you have the cnc maching time/cost on top of that.

The cases just by the looks of them show that a fair bit of cash went into making them, from mojo on up.

 

[miketlse]

I can confirm that aluminum billets are £Ssss and then you have the cnc maching time/cost on top of that.

The cases just by the looks of them show that a fair bit of cash went into making them, from mojo on up.

I will be astounded if Chord have to pay £2000 for each case.

 

[dontfeedphils]

I can confirm that aluminum billets are £Ssss and then you have the cnc maching time/cost on top of that.

The cases just by the looks of them show that a fair bit of cash went into making them, from mojo on up.

I'm sure the custom machined parts are a big hitter on the BOM, but to suggest they account for half of the retail price is ridiculous.

 

[Triode User]

I can confirm that aluminum billets are £Ssss and then you have the cnc maching time/cost on top of that.

The cases just by the looks of them show that a fair bit of cash went into making them, from mojo on up.

Can you amplify on that? Are you in the industry or can you say how you know about typical prices of machined billets similar to the Chord cases and for you to be able to confirm the ££ss?

Just interested.

 

[Amberlamps]

Who is suggesting anything ?

I am merely saying that the billets/blocks are not cheap and with the machinning on top of that, it does mount up.

No where do I suggest that they cost half of the price of anything, I merely said the billets which come in different sizes are expensive and with cnc time then it does mount up and I can confirm first hand.

 

[Amberlamps]

Can you amplify on that? Are you in the industry or can you say how you know about typical prices of machined billets similar to the Chord cases and for you to be able to confirm the ££ss?

Just interested.

Yes, worked in the oil industry and depending on the size of the block used, they can be expensive.

I am not sure what size of blocks chord use to make their cases, whether its one big block cut up into smaller sizes or if it already comes pre cut into specified sizes.

The ones we worked with were big and costly.

 

[Bill13]

Interesting.
Where did he say that?

I recall Rob Watts saying at his NYC 2018 CanJam seminar that typical factory costs of the chord DAC family's CNC machined cases with unique color-shifting spherical control buttons, transparent dome, etc.., was a bit more that half of the factory production cost of the internal electronic parts/circuit boards. I further recall that this was in response to audience question(s) why Chord DACs are so high priced. Anyway, I will post my explanation of why 5X or even more high-end audio retail prices/markups are not so unusual, after all -- of course, this is as I see it.

 

[miketlse]

I recall Rob Watts saying at his NYC 2018 CanJam seminar that typical factory costs of the chord DAC family's CNC machined cases with unique color-shifting spherical control buttons, transparent dome, etc.., was a bit more that half of the factory production cost of the internal electronic parts/circuit boards. I further recall that this was in response to audience question(s) why Chord DACs are so high priced. Anyway, I will post my explanation of why 5X or even more high-end audio retail prices/markups are not so unusual, after all -- of course, this is as I see it.

Your original post stated "I understood Rob Watts to say that more than half the price of Chord DACS was due to the fancy machined solid-block aluminum enclosures."
Now you state that your raw info relates to factory costs. Factory costs and the final retail price are two completely different things, and should not be confused.

 

[Bill13]

I'm sure the custom machined parts are a big hitter on the BOM, but to suggest they account for half of the retail price is ridiculous.

Reply. Not so ridiculous when considering actual factory production costs and then, subsequent additional price markups finally resulting in the market retail price.
So, if a high-end product basic parts (chassis, display + electronics) cost is say, X pounds or dollars, then after adding factory overhead(s), profit, distributor makeup, plus dealer markup, the list retail price could end up being 5X, or often much more (remember, this is for 'high-end' market where the targeted customer often tolerates high price markups (as I see it))..
'Guesstimate': So, if factory parts + labor + tooling cost are say, 400 pounds before other adding factory overhead(s) then I feel it's not unreasonable to see the enclosure component's portion of the high-end retail list price roughly = 2000 pounds.
Ridiculous? Perhaps, but it's the 'real world'..

Example: Just look at what a high-end loudspeaker manufacturer often pays for the drivers in say, retail $10K speakers. I read that the cabinet often costs much more to build and finish than the all the internal crossover parts, terminals + drivers! I'm not prepared at this time to provide you a reference explaining the economics of typical high-end audio component retail pricing. Anyway, you can research this for yourself.