[sashakrik]

Thanks for the recommendations !
 
what do you think of the Sony MDR-ZX770BN ?

 

[Giogio]

what do you think of the Sony MDR-ZX770BN ?

I think that I did not test them.
You should start reading at least the opening post of a thread before asking questions
And btw that is a noise cancelling model, you may want to ask in the ANC thread. I know somebody there tried them.

 

[Techfixation]

Ah, that notorius bad ass from...'Downton Abbey' ?!


It seems like it will be all shoot 'em up, but the slashing kicks in later. The KPG is a little silly, then I caught on that it's a comedy. Good sound design all around. The explosion in the diner was unique in that there were no flames, just sonic impact and debris. Fun throw back to the 80's only more modern in "execution"--so to speak.


I think I already have the answer on the Def Tech Symphony 1's:  No, not for you; I was wrong. Perfectly adequate for the average viewer, but not a bass head. The dialogue and uppers were crisper, clearer than the M2BT's--too much for my taste. And I detected what might be "hiss" in that it sounded like air flowing all the time. To me it wasn't necessarily annoying but more, well...just airy. Again, I personally don't hear that with the M2BT's. I'm thinking our hearing may not be all that different; the way we perceive sounds and physically react to them is were the difference lies.


The conventional bass line was present in the Def Tech's --solid and adequate. But the entire sub-bass vibration and rumble was completely missing. Like it was a different movie.


I stream and play DVD's on my HP laptop. (17")

Interesting to hear about the Def Tech's...they're definitely off my list then! If you could continue testing the ones you have with movies that would be very helpful. I'd really like to know how the Momentums, B&W P5's and B&O H8's stand up to the Fidelio's when it comes to movie watching? Will be interesting what you make of Edge of Tomorrow, there's lots of action with plenty of sub bass moments!

It's a shame I'm unable to use a usb transmitter with my setup as there's a good possibility it might help with the hiss! When using the usb transmitter there's no analog to digital conversion and no headphone amp like in the tv headphone socket! I'm sure there will still be some hiss as I experience hiss even when connected to my iPhone but it could help reduce it?

It is interesting however to hear that you don't experience the low volume high pitch buzz from the right ear piece! I hear it as soon as they connect to either my phone or my 3.5mm transmitter. I phoned Philips who told me its a problem they had come across and they sent me a replacement pair only for the 2nd pair to have the same issue! I wonder if I ordered enough maybe I'd end up eventually receiving a pair without the issue!

 

[Techfixation]

Which kind of EQ was it?
Does your tv have a setting to compensate the delay? Some have it.

I would try the three of them if you can. Maybe you like the bass of the Sennheiser more than enough and all the rest of them much more. Maybe the H8 have hiss. Maybe the Parrot sound the best to you (also due to the EQ) and to not give you delay.
But be careful with Amazon. The risk they close your account is real. And do not use there the same Nick you have here. They are watching us

Yes Avantree sent me a unit to test. No, they have not a built in bass boost, you cannot activate it or not and the boost is not as much as the 950 (thanks God). It is "just" a medium quality bassy bt headphone. But it may end being what you want, making you save a lot of $, and giving you no delay at all.
I can test the hiss if you are interested. I can't notice any hiss.
I have also tried them with both the normal leatherette and the hybrid version of the HM5. I suggest you the leatherette for these headphones. And I would buy also the angled version of the leatherette. You can return (eventually buy directly from MP4Nation).
Yes I think you should definitely try the A-Pro.

I am working on that, Sony is a bit more strict with test units, I would have much more success if I would open a blog or a youtube channel.
And I asked for both a 1ABT and either a mobile or a walkman with LDAC, because I am not going to test the 1ABT without LDAC, it is almost pointless.

The equaliser I used was the Behringer FBQ800.

Unfortunately the tv has no delay settings and it's also a massive shame it only has equaliser settings for the speakers and not the headphone jack!

Yeah I'll try to test the others but I'm a bit wary about using Amazon returns now that I've had a couple of emails stating their concern!

How does the bass of the Aventree Pro's compare to the Fidelio's?

Yes it would definitely be a good idea to test the 1ABT's with LDAC however I only had the chance to test them with aptx and they sounded amazing!

 

[Giogio]

It's a shame I'm unable to use a usb transmitter with my setup as there's a good possibility it might help with the hiss! When using the usb transmitter there's no analog to digital conversion and no headphone amp like in the tv headphone socket! I'm sure there will still be some hiss as I experience hiss even when connected to my iPhone but it could help reduce it?

Which 3.5 BT adapter are you using?
Does your TV have the red/black RCA connectors too? You may want to see if with a rca to 3.5 cable you  get better results.
I do not know which kind of circuits your TV has got. If it is able to keep the audio in digital all the time till the USB port (which is not there, but we are speaking hypothetically) it could be that there would be less hiss.
 
I also never had your problem with the Fidelio.
You should try them on the PC with foobar and use the "reverse stereo channels" function and see if this hiss goes to the other channel or not.
 
Stop trying to find the bass of the Fidelio in other headphones, it wont happen.

 

[Techfixation]

Which 3.5 BT adapter are you using?
Does your TV have the red/black RCA connectors too? You may want to see if with a rca to 3.5 cable you  get better results.
I do not know which kind of circuits your TV has got. If it is able to keep the audio in digital all the time till the USB port (which is not there, but we are speaking hypothetically) it could be that there would be less hiss.

I also never had your problem with the Fidelio.
You should try them on the PC with foobar and use the "reverse stereo channels" function and see if this hiss goes to the other channel or not.

Stop trying to find the bass of the Fidelio in other headphones, it wont happen.

I've tried many different transmitters including the Aventree Saturn Pro and ones that connect to both the RCA and Optical Out, the one I've found to work the best which as it happens is also one of the cheapest is the 'Aukey BT-C1 Aptx Low Latency' transmitter.

If I buy another set of Fidelios I will be sure to try the foobar test, thanks.

The only reason for mentioning the Fidelio's is that they're something we're both familiar with and I thought it would be good to use them as a reference especially as I was hoping the Aventrees might come somewhere close in respect to sub bass.

I've actually found a few which have similar sub bass to the Fidelio's, the UE9000's, Denon AH-GC20's and Sony XB950's all get about as low but suffer in other areas! The Fidelio's have it all other than the issues I've mentioned already!

 

[Giogio]

I've tried many different transmitters including the Aventree Saturn Pro and ones that connect to both the RCA and Optical Out, the one I've found to work the best which as it happens is also one of the cheapest is the 'Aukey BT-C1 Aptx Low Latency' transmitter.

I've actually found a few which have similar sub bass to the Fidelio's, the UE9000's, Denon AH-GC20's and Sony XB950's all get about as low but suffer in other areas! The Fidelio's have it all other than the issues I've mentioned already!

I do not think at all that the 950 get even remotely close to the sub bass of the Fidelio.
If you talk of quantity, well, I am not interested in quantity as much as I am in quality, and the quality of the bass and sub bass of the 950 is thousand light years far far away from the Fidelio.
Fidelio's Rumble is dense, vibrant, accurate, clean, solid, and beside this they have a very nice punch.
The 950 air just puff puuff boom boom. Only air. No control, no density.
Maybe you have improved this with the Mods (you should talk with that guy, I have tagged you, did you receive the notification? He wants to know about the mods). But, I severely doubt any mod can bring them to that kind of deeeep solid rumble of the Fidelio.
The UE, I agree. Maybe a bit more on the mid than on the low bass, but still there.
The Denon, I am so working on getting them. I really want to test them.
The Audition Pro have a very good rumble, good amount also without EQ, and surely good quality, not as precise and clean as the Fidelio, not as deep and not as dense, but good.
We talk probably of two different worlds, you movies where certain things are not as easy to notice, me of Techno, Dubstep, DEFAC, and music, basically, where the nuances of the whole low range come out better than in movies. In movies you do not notice that too much.
I consider the A-Pro somewhere between Fidelio and 950.
I have just checked Edge of Tomorrow. The rumble is there, all sounds balanced and clear, no harshness, nothing wrong, the fight scenes at the end are intense.
I really think you should try them.
If your worry is the return, maybe you can talk it with them and explain the situation. They are very nice.
But, unless you want EXACTLY the Fidelio but without the problems of the Fidelio, I cannot imagine you will be disappointed.
But if it is a "better Fidelio" you're looking for, you are going to be disappointed with EACH single headphone you try. Because there is only one Fidelio. And that is the Fidelio.

 

[Giogio]

  Wow thank you so much for all the information! I'll look up every headphone you mentioned.

Eventually you could look at the Panasonic RP-BTD5-K too, I have tried them, they are simple, no extras, but sound decent and cost ok. The other ones sound better though.

 

[cymprex340]

  No problem. I just wanted to make it sure, for your benefit, that it would be more successful (you would get more answers) if you ask about mods for the XB in the thread for the XB.
 
I will try to get the Soundlink Over Ear. I am curious to. It will not be now though. So, do not count on (or wait for) that.
 
Now I get it, the inspiration are not BT. Well, I am not interested in Wired Headphones. I may buy one when I have more money, a VERY very good one, an open back planar magnetic of whatever, something which is supposed to completely WOW me and change my perception of headphones forever. Of course I will also try to find one with detachable cable, and I will stick a BT receiver instead of the cable. I just can't be wired. Anyway this is off topic.
 
No, I did not try the iSport. I will only if they send them to me. All what I have read about them, compared with all what those same reviewers wrote of all other headphones I have tried, made me understand more or less how they sound, so I was not interested in them for myself. But I would be interested in them for mere testing purposes, if I get them that way.

 
 
Ok, you happen to know what page range it is in the XB thread?  
 
Yea, unfortunately Inspiration BT never came out.     I have a BT receiver I used to connect to my Bose QC15, but they were horrible for that since they fell off if I laid on my back, The Monster Inspiration are notorious for their grip, like the Grado's are..so they can stay in my lettuce and won't fall off.   I hate the cord but I rather have an excellent pair of headphones even if they are wired at this point.    
 
.from the looks of it the ATH may in fact be legit..but not sure about their soundstage when not EQ'd, I take it that the bass response and sub-bass frequencies are also pretty good even if they are not EQ'd to the max.    Unlike the XB's which have a ton of uncontrolled bass that mucks the other frequencies..

 

[Giogio]

Ok, you happen to know what page range it is in the XB thread?   .from the looks of it the ATH may in fact be legit..but not sure about their soundstage when not EQ'd, I take it that the bass response and sub-bass frequencies are also pretty good even if they are not EQ'd to the max.    Unlike the XB's which have a ton of uncontrolled bass that mucks the other frequencies..

Nope. @Bill-P may help out, he is the genius behind those Mods. In case he does not appear here, you may want to go to that thread and use the wonderfully designed SEARCH FUNCTION which you find on top of the first post of each page, and use the keyword mod and username bill-p.
 
I understand you are kind of new to all this, it is ok, we all were once.
Soundstage refers generally to the feeling of width and depth of the sound, like if it was not coming from the headphones but from instruments in the space around you.
People generally talk of Sound Signature to describe what you have said of the ATH.
 
The ATH do not have a boost in the Bass (if not a minimal one which gives a nice pulsation to all music).
Their bass is natural, clean. It is balanced with normal (not bassy) music, contrarily to bassy headphones which are ALWAYS bassy, also in music where they should not.
The ATH on the other and are able to be powerful in the bass on bassy music, also without EQ, specially if at max volu where their 53mm drivers show their full potential.
You WILL need to buy the Brainwavz angled HM5 earpads which will greatly improve the comfort and also a bit the bass and the soundstage.
So, if you do not use EQ, you will have still a good bass. But NOT an extra boosted boomy bass.
If you do not use EQ and want a boosted bass, you should probably buy something else.

 

[1wyseman]

Interesting to hear about the Def Tech's...they're definitely off my list then! If you could continue testing the ones you have with movies that would be very helpful. I'd really like to know how the Momentums, B&W P5's and B&O H8's stand up to the Fidelio's when it comes to movie watching? Will be interesting what you make of Edge of Tomorrow, there's lots of action with plenty of sub bass moments!

It's a shame I'm unable to use a usb transmitter with my setup as there's a good possibility it might help with the hiss! When using the usb transmitter there's no analog to digital conversion and no headphone amp like in the tv headphone socket! I'm sure there will still be some hiss as I experience hiss even when connected to my iPhone but it could help reduce it?

It is interesting however to hear that you don't experience the low volume high pitch buzz from the right ear piece! I hear it as soon as they connect to either my phone or my 3.5mm transmitter. I phoned Philips who told me its a problem they had come across and they sent me a replacement pair only for the 2nd pair to have the same issue! I wonder if I ordered enough maybe I'd end up eventually receiving a pair without the issue!

The Momentums M2 AEBT and the Fidelios are going to 'Jurrasic World' right after I leave here. I'm expecting some rumbling there. I have seen 'Edge of Tomorrow', but will get it again for testing purposes.
 
Maybe it's different batch numbers for the Fidelios? Are you in the U.S.? Because they are all imports here. Mine came directly from Hong Kong and Seoul 9 months apart. Just stabbing in the dark. The price sure has dropped!! Maybe they are on the way out? That's why I got a second pair.

 

[1wyseman]

  The Real Bass Exciter is a difficult beast to domesticate.
It does not just boost frequencies, it also make some phase stuff and shifts some frequencies, the guy who made it did not explain all well.
Basically, it may even weaken the bass, and affect negatively other frequencies, if you do not set it well.
The settings I gave you are for the ATH and would not work on the Fidelio.
For the ATH do not touch anything, or you will affect other frequencies or weaken other parts of the bass. Eventually just increase/decrease the boost by changing the value "harmonic energy".
Eventually also you can change the first value, frequency threshold, to 1200 instead of 900 for a warmer sound, or to 600 or 400 for a less warm sound. But check it with different songs, different bass, voices etc to see if you like it or not.
You can save settings on the plugin, and you can also save a plugin chain in foobar. And you can also put and delete a plugin from the chain quickly to see the changes (generally when you put it back the settings are still the same). If Foobar does not reach quickly, you must decrease the value "buffer" in Foobar menu "playback/output". More buffer = no skipping, less buffer = immediate response to eq changes, other changes, and less latency.
1000ms should be fine for most. You may even use 250ms for faster changes if no other program is running and taking lot of CPU.
 
For the Fidelio you must experiment.
The Frequency threshold value sets the range of affected frequencies. It is not clear how. Generally speaking I saw that 1200 is warmer, 400 is colder. I have the impression that 900 to 1200 are the best values to respect the original sound, at least on the ATH. This anyway depends also on the last two values (the two pre.wave things). If you change those (I do not suggest it) the way the threshold affects the sound is different.
The Harmonic frequency is the frequency which will be boosted. You may know, 40 to 80 hz is the strong part of the sub bass, that's why most people boost 60. Other boost 80 or 90. Subbass = rumble. 90 to 180 is considered mid-bass and affects other instruments, makes the sound a bit darker, gives a bit more punch. 180 to 250 is upper bass, can increase muddiness. The divisions are not universally agreed, and the description is very rough.
The Harmonic bandwidth is the width of the curve of this boost. I understood that a value of 80 here with a value of 60 on the previous value means that the center frequency of the boost is 60, and then the curve gets from 20 to 100 (40 in both directions).
He wrote that for a more quality over quantity boost, and specially with good equipment, lower values are better.
He suggested 60 for the first and 90 for the second. To my ears on the ATH 60 for the second is better quality boost.
The Harmonic energy is the amount of boost.
The two above and below pre-wave should not be touched. He suggested 92 for the first and 10 for the second. I consider 78 and 3 to be better to my ears at least with those other settings and for the ATH.
Have fun.
 
About Fidelio vs ATH and which one is more flat, you may be right or not. Only a test with dummy head would say. It may be that the ATH have a little push on the mids, or that the Fidelio are a bit v-shaped and have less mids. It may also just be that it is a matter of how this quantity is brought to the ears, and that the ATH have larger and more impactful drivers which give more presence to the mids even if without boosting them in quantity (speaking of EQ curve).
It does not matter after all Set them as you please
 
What do you mean for "eq zeroed out"?
You can anyway make presets of eq settings, one for each music (like, flat, little bass boost, more bass boost, etc). You can, as said, also save a configuration of the plugin chain and when you save it also the settings of each plugin will be saved, even if you did not save them in the presets of that plugin.
So you do not need to constantly adjust EQ settings. Nobody does that
 
The M2BT are a bit too bassy for some stuff to some people. The ATH would not be felt bassy without EQ. That's why they are first in my list. They can please more people, basshead and not.
 
Real bass exciter was always running, yes, at low push on normal music, bigger push on techno, extreme insane push on dubstep.
I have found anyway other VST which may be giving a better overall sound with similar or even better results on the bass (at least on Techno. For the rumbling sub-bass the Real Bass Exciter is still the best till now). I have published this info on the foobar help thread, on this and the following post. I am still experimenting.
 
Nothing to say for spotify and LP, but why should you LOAD things on Foobar? If they are on the Hard Disk, it's there already. If they are on CD, does not your PC/Notebook have CD player? And if you only have CD player in your HI-Fi, does that not have an EQ? Wait for the Angled HM5...
Winner is anyway always relative. Without EQ, each of the two has got its sound signature, you cannot change it, so for everybody wins what get closer to his own personal tastes.

 
Thank you, Giogio! It's amazing the amount of time and thought you put in to these answers. I am not worthy...

No, really not worthy. There is a big learning curve to this EQ stuff and I'm obviously at the very beginning of it. And I am a lazy bum. A busy lazy bum, but a lazy bum none-the-less.

I'm going to keep dabbling away at it, but my focus is more towards using BT headphones with streaming Movies and TV on my laptop, and especially with listening to all my music on a DAP/DAC--gotta prepare for the nursing home, ya know

This is great information for everyone to have. Keep it up! But sometimes you scare me...

 

[Giogio]

Life is all about how people choose to waste their time.

 

[1wyseman]

Yes! Isn't it great! 

 

[h0race]

Even though I managed to get them for £60, I am thinking of keeping the Moves and sending the Senses back. As they are more suited to my needs, and to my ears don't sound a great deal different in the real world....i.e outside and public transport where these are to be used. 

Usually it goes audio > fit  > everything else when it comes to headphones, but as these are to be used on the go other factors have had to be taken into account. For example, the Senses do seem a bit delicate, with buttons on the backs of the cups and a massive volume rocker on the LH cup. This cements the officey vibe I get from the Senses as well, as they have a control scheme of a office headset with the back of the RH cup being taken up with a call answering button. The Moves have an inconspicuous little rocker on the bottom of one ear cup, and that's it. Everything else is just as a regular pair of headphones, which is what I wanted in a portable headphone. Minimal and not fussy.

In relation to fit, the suspension design works well on the Senses, but to me the ear pads are a bit thin. It's about 10mm of memory foam, so should be fine, but seems to compress very easily. That might just be me being nitpicky tho.

As for audio, they both sound great. Gun to my head the Senses sound clearer and have a higher clarity in the mids/highs. Whereas the Moves do get a little bit out of shape, but make up for this by having a better bottom end compared to the Senses. They are both great sub-£100 portable headphones, and I am going to play with both pairs till the end of the week and make a decision then. However, if the Senses had been their usual price of £99, then they would have gone back already, as they don't sound 2x better than the Moves, they're not built 2x better and some of the extras like open mic and the movement sensor you're paying for are not things I need.

Bottom line, for £60 they are a bargain. If they fit your other requirements, then sound-wise you're not going to get better for the price.

I also bought the Backbeat Sense at the Amazon deal price of £60. They arrived the other day.

My initial impressions of them are mixed. In terms of design, build and functionality, they are superb - robust and reliable bluetooth connection, the auto pause function works flawlessly and they have a healthy output level and battery life.

The sound, however, is a little too warm and dull for my taste. That said, there is much to like about the Senses, so I'll persevere with EQ options before deciding whether or not to keep them.

In truth, I am a bit disappointed considering the very positive reviews online. If they had a brighter, cleaner balance, they'd be keepers.

I'm not sure how this will pan out, but wonder if there is anything else out there at this price.