[Giogio]

  BTW - you said that the Plantronics Backbeat Pros have 5.5cm ear room. My ears are almost exactly 6cm and I was going to order them in next couple days. Think that could be an issue?

difficult to say. can you believe that I had never measured my ears yet? I always took for granted that they were smaller than 5 cm, considering that I do not have problems with the ATH (less than 5cm opening).
I see now that I have 6cm long ears!
What? How do they fit in the ATH?
I suppose your ears will perfectly fit in the Plantronics. Mine do! And we apparently have same length
I think that the trick is that inside, near the driver, the opening of the pads becomes bigger. So that the ears can accommodate there.
Anyway, can't you buy them in Amazon or somewhere where you can eventually return them if not satisfied?
 

  Initial impressions – comparison between MDR-1ABT and MDR-1RBTMK2

Very nice. How much did you may for them? Does the seller offer a return policy?
 

 

I have no idea why the quote did not work, but it is ok so.
I just wanted to say that I am happy that you like the Fidelio as much as I did
Yes, their bass is just magic.
And their overall sound is also very good.
You did the right choice!
And now you made me feel the wish of trying the Koss BT540i
 
About your measurements, first of all, it is great that you did it. But, can you explain how should we read them?
I did not understand the results.

 

[bladefd]

@Giogio - how do the "PENDULUMIC STANCE S1+" compare to the Backbeat Pros? They seem to have more comfortable padding.. Doesn't seem to have multipoint though. It lacks ANC but I will not be using ANC so it is not relevant to me.
 
Sorry about so many questions lol. I keep second-guessing the Backbeats for some reason. I don't buy headphones more than once every 4+ years so I want to get it right.

 

[Giogio]

  @Giogio - how do the "PENDULUMIC STANCE S1+" compare to the Backbeat Pros? They seem to have more comfortable padding.. Doesn't seem to have multipoint though. It lacks ANC but I will not be using ANC so it is not relevant to me.
 
Sorry about so many questions lol. I keep second-guessing the Backbeats for some reason. I don't buy headphones more than once every 4+ years so I want to get it right.

That's ok, I have no problem in answering, but the best thing is that you save a bit more money and try to get at least two headphones and compare them by yourself and send back the one you like less.
You talked of bass, so, I would not suggest the Stance.
They have a ver beautiful sound, warm, detailed, intimate but with still a good soundstage (less wide than the Plantronics though).
The highs are less aggressive than in the Plantronics and the mids more present.
The bass is less extended and less powerful. It is by no means lacking, but it is by no means a basshead bass.
If you want a strong bass, you have to chose one of the first 5 in my list of bassy bt headphones.
I personally doubt that the Momentum will have any chance to get into the top five in that list but I will tell next weekend when I try it.
The Stance are not much more comfortable than the Plantronics. The pads are oval, with the vertical diameter of just 3mm more than the Plantronics, but the horizontal is 4cm. They are as soft and as deep as the Plantronics.

 

[AliLeigh]

This is likely a stupid question, but does it really matter if headphones have BT 2.0, 3.0 or 4.0. I'm asking in terms of sound quality, minimum lag when watching films, being able to answer a simple phone call, & their ability to pair with effectively with future mobile devices & eq apps for another couple years. I know 4.0 allows for things like multipoint connectivity, but in terms of listening to music, watching a movie or answering the phone, does it matter (need portable pair that won't be too hot summer--looking at AKG Y45BT, which are sold with 2.0 on Amazon, or the Bose SoundLink with 4.0).? Thanks!

 

[bladefd]

*I posted in wrong thread earlier LOL.. Fixed*
 
 
Here's another BT 3.0 headphone for you to try in future: Turtle Beach i60.  I came across it multiple times but not many reviews out there. I am not quite willing to bite the bullet on something with limited reviews


 
No ANC on these. The cheaper Turtle Beach i30 have them though. i30 has good amazon reviews.

 

[elektron]

   
 
I know they are subjectively better to me, but I'm not yet sure if the improvement fully justifies the price. I think it does for me.

 
It looks like at the very top tier of the bluetooth headphone market the point of diminishing returns is even more evident that in wired headphones, as there is arguably no perfect or reference bluetooth headphone at the moment.  Choosing a particular manufacturer or model over another usually comes down to preferences for specific sound signatures, features, mobile ecosystems and even brand loyalties, rather than substantial improvements in sound qualiy.   Note that I didn't say budget, as with very few exceptions most of these headphones are within the same price range.
 
What we have learnt so far is that no matter how hard the manufacturers try, at least in terms of the sound quality, they still hit the ceiling imposed by bluetooth, even with SBC(HQ ) / AptX.  
 
To be fair, over the last few years, with each subsequent iteration / model cycle, the difference between wireless and wired sound quality has gradually diminished.
 
In theory at least, LDAC appears to offer a breakthrough in this department.  While AptX supports CD-quality FLACs (16-bit / 44.1 khz), LDAC promises to support hi-res formats of up to 24-bit / 96 khz.  If it stands up to its claim, this is potentially huge and could finally make audiophiles (and audiosnobs) take notice of bluetooth.  It could even make wireless speakers much more common place in home theatres.
 
While the market for higher than CD-quality music is rather niche, I can't help but wonder whether LDAC could also make a difference to the sound quality of high quality MP3s and CD-quality FLACs.
 
There are a number of LDAC compatible portable sources already available, from the NWZ-A15/ NWZ-A17, which have received LDAC support via a firmware update earlier this month, to the very expensive NWZ-ZX2 that has been available for a few months.  The Sony Xperia Z4 with LDAC was recently announced in Japan.
 
The issue is that, at this point in time, there aren't any credible reviews or impressions of the sound quality over LDAC.  The only one I came across a few weeks ago was from a blogger who attended a Sony demo of hi-res audio material over LDAC using its compatible receiver and high-end wireless speakers.  While his impression was that it sounded great (may have sounded equally good over AptX?) it didn't quite meet his very high expectations of what hi-res audio should sound like over top-grade consumer-level equipment.  This is a bit disappointing, considering that since the demo was fully controlled by Sony they would have gone to every length to show off the new technology, down to the very careful material selection.
 
What we need now is some first-hand accounts from lucky individuals who have access to an LDAC source as well as the MDR-1ABT.  Hopefully, this combination will become more common over the next couple of months.
 
If anyone's interested, there are a couple of reviews of MDR-1ABT on Amazon Japan (you can use Google Translate to read them) with one of them comparing them to the MK2.  Both are rather brief but seem to confirm the impressions from @orionschmidt.

 

[mattmathur]

@Giogio hey man i am back again with my sorry a** and ****ty choices ....
 
i am currently giving a try to plantronics backbeat pro liking them quite much lots of features as you know good bass good sound clarity and good battery life and blab blah ..... it have all the things you can expect from a headphone at a decent price but when is come to soundstage man it's not bad but your m2bt kinda spoiled me for the short time they was with me  I can attest to it that no i mean no headphone i ever tried has such a soundstage as the fidelio m2bt has god knows why i return them i don't.............
 
Now sorry for my intrusion in your life but i have to ask this one more time what should i buy .... Now i am leaning towards ue9000 and xb950bt .......My Q to you is that has any one of them has the soundstage that fidelio has or should i get fidelio back I can get them almost same price for hilips fidelio M2bt/bk00 and ue9000(25$ extra for these) and 50$ less for xb950bt what should i get please guide me...............

 

[n00b2]

 
The issue is that, at this point in time, there aren't any credible reviews or impressions of the sound quality over LDAC.  The only one I came across a few weeks ago was from a blogger who attended a Sony demo of hi-res audio material over LDAC using its compatible receiver and high-end wireless speakers.  While his impression was that it sounded great (may have sounded equally good over AptX?) it didn't quite meet his very high expectations of what hi-res audio should sound like over top-grade consumer-level equipment.  This is a bit disappointing, considering that since the demo was fully controlled by Sony they would have gone to every length to show off the new technology, down to the very careful material selection.

 
What we need is someone comparing LDAC to aptx using both FLAC and Hi Res audio files on the same device. The 1ABT like you said with a Z4 phone would probably be the easiest and most convenient common option. That is really the only way to see if LDAC makes any difference over aptx when it comes to actually listening to music. I think you are probably expecting too much to be blown away by it though. It is still wireless and will probably not come close to competing with Hi Res files on a high end wired system. But if it sounds better than other wireless options or at least other bluetooth codecs then it will still be a good next step in the evolution of bluetooth audio.

 

[AcademicBarzo]

Just posted something about the performance of the Sennhesier Urbanite XL wireless on another thread on Headfi - see here in case it is of interest:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/749606/sennheiser-momentum-2-0-and-wireless/1680#post_11548862
 
I doubt anyone, myself included, would call the Urbanite's 'high end' but they are very good as a portable solution. That's what I was looking for - to listen without wires when walking around and on my daily commute.  For critical listening I'll fall back on my Sennheiser HD700s and Burson Conductor setup at home.  I'm afraid I'm not that interested in LDAC.  The technology itself might be good, but I find the sound signature of Sony headphones leaves me pretty cold.  The Sony MDR-1ABT are based on the MDR-1As, and I found those headphones to be quite thick sounding with bass bloat.  So, in my view, any assessment of LDAC will depend on whether Sony licence it to other manufacturers.

 

[james444]

 
What we need is someone comparing LDAC to aptx using both FLAC and Hi Res audio files on the same device. The 1ABT like you said with a Z4 phone would probably be the easiest and most convenient common option. That is really the only way to see if LDAC makes any difference over aptx when it comes to actually listening to music. I think you are probably expecting too much to be blown away by it though. It is still wireless and will probably not come close to competing with Hi Res files on a high end wired system. But if it sounds better than other wireless options or at least other bluetooth codecs then it will still be a good next step in the evolution of bluetooth audio.

 
My humble guess is that LDAC will remain a Sony proprietary codec forever, just like ATRAC. If the vast majority of listeners can't tell CD quality from Hi Res anyway, then what sense does it make to compress the latter with a lossy codec, just to maintain the original bit depth while sending it over bluetooth? At 990kbps (max. LDAC bitrate), one could transfer most CD quality content using lossless compression, which arguably would make a lot more sense. But then again, that couldn't be marketed with a sexy Hi-Res sticker, which seems to be the minimum requirement for every "innovation" in audio nowadays. 

 

 

[Deckardk]

don't buy the Bose, it's a very known problem that they have skipping music with iOS.
Revo is On Ear, not Over, and I think you should definitely try them.
The AKG Y45BT are so cool, but I've no idea how they sound with a iPhone or let's say without APTX.
But I totally love their mix of good sound and excellent portability.
The Harman Kardon are OK, but I also have no idea how they sound without APTX.
You didn't really describe the sound which you prefer not the music you listen to.
The Hesh 2 are actually not bad if you don't boost the bass (they distort if you do).
They're v shaped, so if you felt them cold you may like Harman, Revo and AKG. They're warmer.
Always cheaper than 200 the Supertooth Freedom. I really liked their sound.
They're over ear anyway.
The House of Marley can also be good.
But if you try to describe more how you want headphones to sound i can give you better suggestions.
The guys at TheWirecutter have published their new big comparison.
They pick now the Jabra Move, not anymore the Revo.
I find it a bit strange that they pick again a Jabra with all what's going on, and they leave a LOT of very important headphones out.
And they have this questionable tendency of counting the money in the pockets of people and pick only or mostly cheap ones.
Unfortunately quality has got a price.
But you may find some interesting things under 200 in their article.

Very suspicious of the Wirecutter. First they recommend that crap Revo, then they plug another Jabra? All while omitting the cream of the crop.

They also push Onkyo really hard, despite their notoriously shoddy support.

 

[orion23rigel]

 
Very nice. How much did you may for them? Does the seller offer a return policy?

 
Yes, the seller has a 14-day return policy, but buyer pays return shipping. Here's the eBay listing.
 
I was impressed with how fast the shipping was. It only took 4 days to get to the US from Japan.

 

[Giogio]

  Yes, the seller has a 14-day return policy, but buyer pays return shipping. Here's the eBay listing.

With that nick of you I thought you were in Germany. But I see they do not ship to Germany.
Anyway, they write "We will refund the full price if you return the product unopened within 14 days counting from the delivery date."
Common thing among Japanese sellers. That's why I asked.
Anyway, even if they write that, the chances are great that Ebay would force them to a refund even if the box is opened. At least in some Countries Ebay tend to think that people must be allowed to try a product in order to decide if keeping it or not. Important is only that you return the product "as new".
 

  My humble guess is that LDAC will remain a Sony proprietary codec forever

If LDAC can not provide any better sound than APTX with Flac and MP3, I suppose that it will stay an elite thing for a while.
But if Sony wants to keep it proprietary they must make better headphones
I would never buy a Sony headphone just for the LDAC if I do not like its SQ and signature more than other headphones.
As you can read on the bottom of my posts, I like to enjoy music, not waveforms. It is more important to me that I like how headphones sound than if each last single bit is there (which I can only realize with super expensive equipment, super hi-res music, and lot ot testing. So, what for?).
About APTX, and your tests, is it a common thing that the sound wireless is a bit thinner, decreasing a bit the low range respect to the wired sound?
 

  Just posted something about the performance of the Sennhesier Urbanite XL wireless on another thread on Headfi - see here in case it is of interest:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/749606/sennheiser-momentum-2-0-and-wireless/1680#post_11548862

Do you also notice a dark tone in the bass and low mids? Something which is not exaclty muddiness but which can be improved by decreasing low mids and upper bass with EQ?
 

. Now i am leaning towards ue9000 and xb950bt .......My Q to you is that has any one of them has the soundstage that fidelio has or should i get fidelio back I can get them almost same price for hilips fidelio M2bt/bk00 and ue9000(25$ extra for these) and 50$ less for xb950bt what should i get please guide me...............

My answer is, get the Fidelio if you liked them so much!
The best thing would be for you to get Fidelio AND ue9000, and compare them by yourself.
I remember the ue like sounding very similar to the fidelio (after some little EQ adjustments). I do not remember any big difference in the Soundstage but I can not swear, sorry.
What I can tell you is that at the end I liked the Fidelio more. They had more highs, and were much more comfortable. because even if the UE are over ear, they are so heavy that after a while my head was hurting under the headband.
But comfort and sound are subjective (I for example consider the soundstage of the Plantronics better than the Fidelio, even if I like that in the Fidelio the mids are more present).
So, you should really compare.
Get the money, buy both, send back the "worst", get the money back
 

Here's another BT 3.0 headphone for you to try in future: Turtle Beach i60.  I came across it multiple times but not many reviews out there. I am not quite willing to bite the bullet on something with limited reviews


 
No ANC on these. The cheaper Turtle Beach i30 have them though. i30 has good amazon reviews.

ahahha, but now you informed about an ANC one here
Ok, I take note, thanks for the suggestion, I did not know any of them.
 

This is likely a stupid question, but does it really matter if headphones have BT 2.0, 3.0 or 4.0. I'm asking in terms of sound quality, minimum lag when watching films, being able to answer a simple phone call, & their ability to pair with effectively with future mobile devices & eq apps for another couple years. I know 4.0 allows for things like multipoint connectivity, but in terms of listening to music, watching a movie or answering the phone, does it matter (need portable pair that won't be too hot summer--looking at AKG Y45BT, which are sold with 2.0 on Amazon, or the Bose SoundLink with 4.0).? Thanks!

The AKG are BT 3, not 2.
My answer is: we talked of this a few time ago. You can read it starting from this post and the following ones.
So, as far as it is at least BT 2.1, all is ok.
I am not aware of any difference in sound between 2.1 and 3 and 4.
Maybe other users can tell.
I personally doubt you will find any decent headphone with 2.1, so, problem solved.
And between 3 and 4 I think the main difference is the low energy comsumption of the 4 (IF both source and receiver are 4).
At same time I kind of suspect that some headphones having connectivity problems is because of them trying to save too much power, so in my fantasy this should not happen with bt 3 (= bt 3 should be more stable) but it could be all a fantasy of mine.
I also ignored that multipoint was related to BT 4, where did you read this?
If you need multipoint, you have to chose the Bose over the Akg, end of the story.
I think that multipoint is cool. I never used it though. I am not a business man, so, I do not receive 20 calls in an hour.
I had the impression that the technology is not 100% stable and that it also could cause some connectivity problems (I observed them in a few multipoint headphones).
 
Between akg and bose, those two models, it is all a matter of price, portability, and signature. The akg are much cheaper, more portable, and have a warmer signature, with an accent on low mids which I personally feel the need to decrease with some EQ.
The bose sound a bit more balanced.
Maybe I would prefer the bose if they would be cheaper.
But for a portable pair, I gave my preference to the cheaper AKG and I do not regret it.
I use EQ anyway to retune it to my tastes.

 

[cehowardNote3]

  @Giogio - how do the "PENDULUMIC STANCE S1+" compare to the Backbeat Pros? They seem to have more comfortable padding.. Doesn't seem to have multipoint though. It lacks ANC but I will not be using ANC so it is not relevant to me.
 
Sorry about so many questions lol. I keep second-guessing the Backbeats for some reason. I don't buy headphones more than once every 4+ years so I want to get it right.

Ha, you keep hanging around this thread, you will change what I have in bold quickly!! 

 

[orion23rigel]

  With that nick of you I thought you were in Germany. But I see they do not ship to Germany.
Anyway, they write "We will refund the full price if you return the product unopened within 14 days counting from the delivery date."
Common thing among Japanese sellers. That's why I asked.
Anyway, even if they write that, the chances are great that Ebay would force them to a refund even if the box is opened. At least in some Countries Ebay tend to think that people must be allowed to try a product in order to decide if keeping it or not. Important is only that you return the product "as new".

 
Not in Germany, though I lived in Austria for a couple years. 
 
Yeah, good point about the return policy. I saw that bit about unopened, but that only applies if the item is not faulty, so it seems fair enough to me to pay a restocking fee. I figured I'd just sell the headphones myself as used if I ended up not liking them, and take whatever loss. That's what I always do with my old gear anyway. If my initial impressions hold true, though, I think I'll be keeping them for a while.