[sashakrik]

Hi,
I want to buy my first Bluetooth headphones and i need some advice.
I intend to use the headphones outside (on a bus or a train) so a decent sound insulation is important. As long as the headphones have a good passive sound insulation it's ok if there won't be ANC. I also need the headphones not to leak sound so i won't disturb the people that are sitting next to me on a bus.

I want the headphones to be comfortable so i can wear them for long periods of time and not feeling fatigue on the ears or the head.
I have an average size head and ears.
I'm not interested in headphones like the samsung level over, in my opinion they seems to be too big and bulky for using outside.

I mainly listen to these geners: House, Dubstep, Trap, Rap, Hip-Hop.
As you can see i mainly listen to bass heavy music so it will be nice if the hesdphones will have a nice deep bass, but in the same time i don't want the mids and highs to disappear.
I never use EQ so i prefer headphones that will be good to go out of the box.

In the features department it's important that there will be a good battery with a long playing time, also i need the headphones to have a good Bluetooth connection.

I did some reading on the diffrent Bluetooth codecs and i understood that Apt-X enabled headphones are highly recommended. My music source is going to be mainly my LG G2 smartphone and maybe sometimes my LG G PAD 8.3 tablet.

My budget for the headphones is approximately 350 $.


Thank you !

 
 

   
That post was basically sounding like you were asking someone to recommend you the Momentum Wireless until you got to the bluetooth connection and price part. From @Giogio's comparisons the ATH WS99BT or the Fidelio M2BT would probably be the best options if you can get them where you live though they lack ANC.

 
 
Thank you for the reply and the recommendations !
 
I can't find where to buy the ATH-WS99BT.
I have searched this thread and saw that Giogio recommended many times the Fidelio M2BT. Since I have never used on-ear headphones (only over ears and in-ears) I will be very happy to know from people who have these headphones about their comfort.

 

[cehowardNote3]

Why does everybody get so predictable and comes out with such things as "get a life" when cornered?
Don't take it personally, but, my thread, my rules, just to be clear.
Very far from me the wish of repressing people's "opinion", as you should know (I always push people to express themselves).
But your examples are not fair.
Of course you can know that a famous chef cooks better than your friend, if you know that you know that your friend can't cook.
But you can't know which of two famous chefs cooks better (IF one cooks "better", and not just "differently") if you don't try BOTH.
And you definitely can NOT know such a thing like "this was the best in the world" (which is what you've said of the mk2) without having tried all the others (at least all the other high end ones).

I absolutely encourage people expressing their opinion, I welcome it very much, this is a community thread, made by people, not by me.
But I've opened it and given it a direction, which is of high quality first hand information, and I only ask people NOT to express absolutistic generalizing objectifying opinions, and to strictly base their "ratings" on PERSONAL experience.
It's not much what I'm asking.
After all the world is already full of bla bla threads.
One with high quality info can not make harm

 
Cool,  I wasn't cornered, I was just "OMG, he didn't say that"..  

 
All in fun, and believe you me, I am having big time fun, and learning a great deal.  
 
The "my thread, my rules" does sound a little bossy, but being the oldest, I am giving you a lot of slack.. 

 
And your thread, and comments are very high quality..  And even more important, which I don't think you have even mentioned, this thread and the comments are in REAL TIME..It is the LATEST and very much up to date. Can't get any better than that..

.
 
Now, back to this. How you like my "layman" label?    

 

 

[cehowardNote3]

Hi,
I want to buy my first Bluetooth headphones and i need some advice.
I intend to use the headphones outside (on a bus or a train) so a decent sound insulation is important. As long as the headphones have a good passive sound insulation it's ok if there won't be ANC. I also need the headphones not to leak sound so i won't disturb the people that are sitting next to me on a bus.

I want the headphones to be comfortable so i can wear them for long periods of time and not feeling fatigue on the ears or the head.
I have an average size head and ears.
I'm not interested in headphones like the samsung level over, in my opinion they seems to be too big and bulky for using outside.

I mainly listen to these geners: House, Dubstep, Trap, Rap, Hip-Hop.
As you can see i mainly listen to bass heavy music so it will be nice if the hesdphones will have a nice deep bass, but in the same time i don't want the mids and highs to disappear.
I never use EQ so i prefer headphones that will be good to go out of the box.

In the features department it's important that there will be a good battery with a long playing time, also i need the headphones to have a good Bluetooth connection.

I did some reading on the diffrent Bluetooth codecs and i understood that Apt-X enabled headphones are highly recommended. My music source is going to be mainly my LG G2 smartphone and maybe sometimes my LG G PAD 8.3 tablet.

My budget for the headphones is approximately 350 $.


Thank you !

 
IMO, I would up that budget another $150 and get the Senn M2 Wireless.. Like others here have done, if they don't work out, you can return them. 

 

[cehowardNote3]

   
 
 
 
Thank you for the reply and the recommendations !
 
I can't find where to buy the ATH-WS99BT.
I have searched this thread and saw that Giogio recommended many times the Fidelio M2BT. Since I have never used on-ear headphones (only over ears and in-ears) I will be very happy to know from people who have these headphones about their comfort.

 
I for one, never touch on ear..For me, comfort is not there, and the seal might not be that good either. Plus, they look funny too... Just my 2 cents...

 

[WDitters]

I finally bit the bullet after lenghty A-B-C-D comparisons between Sennheiser Momentum Wireless, Philips Fidelio M2BT, Plantronics Backbeat Pro and  Logitech UE9000.
 
Plantronics was first off the table, its imaging simply being too unnatural, as if something was missing in the middle of the soundstaging
 
Then the UE9000 went for reasons of muddyness and lack of refinement (all relative of course, the UE9000 are by all means a great pair of cans, but in comparison with my numbers 1 and 2 ... no)
 
The selection between the Fidelio and Momentums proved to be the hardest ... in fact so hard that I decided to keep them both.
 
Both excellent wireless cans, but different pros and cons. The Fidelio are on ear while the Momentums are over ear (at least the pair I have). The Fidelio and Mometum both have their own Bluetooth quirks so they are on par there. Their individual styling is different. In the end a matter of taste but I would imaging the Fidelio to be a better fit for the urban hipster (conveniently disregarding Beats for a moment) while the Momentum would probably appeal to the less-fashion conscious audience.
 
But there where it really counts, musical reproduction, I must admit that despite my initial apprehension of the mid 4k gap the Momentums ended up securing my vote. They sound ever so slightly more clean, more refined, better controlled. The two only aspects where I found the Fidelio slightly more enjoyable are in the highs and imaging. The highs is where the Fidelio are just a tiny bit more sparkly than the Momentums. The imaging is where the Momentums sound just a tad more confined. But that did not prevent the Momentums to simply sound more musical, more in control, more eloquent if you will ...
 
And to be completely straight, the price of the Momentums definitely helped the Fidelios to make an even stronger case. The Fidelios definitely are a great value for money, while the Momentums are ridiculously overpriced, especially given the Bluetooth quircks. At this price level this type of product simply has to be 100%. I keep them because I can afford them and because I want the maximum enjoyment out of a wireless pair of cans. In that sense I simply find them better and more enjoyable than the Fidelios. But there will definitely be moments that I will dash out the door grabbing the Fidelios instead ...

 

[Giogio]

I can't find where to buy the ATH-WS99BT.
I have searched this thread and saw that Giogio recommended many times the Fidelio M2BT. Since I have never used on-ear headphones (only over ears and in-ears) I will be very happy to know from people who have these headphones about their comfort.

The Fidelio were very comfortable on my head (me too, average head, average ears). I started feeling discomfort on the ears after several hours. Same as with the ATH, but the ATH are a small over ear, bit less than 5cm inner diameter. Which means, depending on your ears the Fidelio may be more comfortable.
The Fidelio are also a bit more boosted in the bass, so they could be better for dubstep if you don't want to use EQ, especially due to their bodied low bass, a denser vibration in the deep bass.
The ATH need a louder volume and some EQ to acquire that (and more than that).
My suggestion would be to buy the ATH and just make an EQ preset for dubstep, where you only push the bass from 40 to 80hz of 6db.
If you like the result and feel comfortable trying something more, you could also boost of 3db what's below 40 and between 80 and 100hz, and reduce of 3db what's from 200 to 400.
That's simple and works very well for dubstep on the ATH.
Alternatively you could at least use the bass boost function of some smartphone or of some music players.
Another difference between them is that the ATH need to be used at louder volume to really shine, due to their bigger drivers. So on lower volume the Fidelio can be more lively.

I've tried the Fidelio on a train, and I had a very good passive isolation.
Now, it also depends on where you live.
The old trains of south of Italy can be quite louder than the German ones where I've tested the Fidelio, and where I'll test the ATH tomorrow and let you know.

Sound leakage on Fidelio is low, no problem. Of course, at max volume on an airplane while everybody sleep, they're not as silent as a good over ear.
The ATH isolate a bit less, but for example my roommates yesterday at two meters from me could not hear any leakage at medium volume (but yes at higher volume, which anyway in the ATH is quite louder than in the Fidelio).
The ATH are also more present in the other frequencies, compared with the Fidelio, which can also have some sibilance in some highs.
Now the Fidelio M2BT can, from time to time, be a bit capricious with the connection, like many of the first multipoint headphones.
The M1BT do not have this (anyway marginal and very occasional) problem and sound pretty much identical although the m2bt have wider frequency range.
The ATH you can buy them on eBay.com, on amazon.com, and in the global Rakuten.
Strictly speaking of price you find the cheapest seller on Rakuten, but for return policies I suggest to check eBay and amazon.

The "my thread, my rules" does sound a little bossy.
Now, back to this. How you like my "layman" label?      

Yes, I know, but it's a good bossy, I'm just protective with this thread because I care about it.
Laypa...
I like laypa

 

[Giogio]

WDitters, which music do you listen to?
I was expecting the Fidelio to be preferred for the bass, and the Plantronics for imaging (I agree that some mid get lost in the soundstage, but I believe it's kind of normal that a wider and deeper soundstage causes a bit less presence in some things, and in this case I believe it's also more a matter of the v shaped signature. I myself find the soundstage of the Plantronics quite cool).

I too wanted to keep the Fidelio as portable pair and the ATH for home, it would have been so cool, the two best bassy cans. But finally the negatives of the Fidelio annoyed me, especially that big power button which makes them turn on automatically when something in the backpack makes pressure on it.
While the convenience of the super portable AKG Y45BT won me.
And now that I've found them for 80 euro, I am so happy!
They cannot compete with the Fidelio, although they do sound very good too.
But, that sound and that portability at that price, is a must.

 

[AliLeigh]

Thought I read that the Sennheiser Urbanite XLBT allow you to listen to the PC & still take phone calls. However, they look as big as the Plantronics & not as well reviewed. If I'm wrong, and they wouldn't look moronic on the head of someone who's 5'4" (saw a female reviewer inbox them on You Tube & they seemed rather massive). the higher price tag may be worth it for me. Otherwise, going to start with the Stance S1+. Wish I could order two pairs to compare, but just not feasible at the moment.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[WDitters]

WDitters, which music do you listen to?
 

Indie, Pop, Rock, Folk, Acoustic, World Music, Americana, Bluegrass, Metal .. I think I could better list what I don't listen to

 

[bladefd]

Quite frankly, I don't understand Sony. Why are they still manufacturing & selling the old 1RBT in USA when there have been new MK2 for more than a year and half now? I posted asking which 1RBT you get on Amazon, Sony responds that there is no such thing as MK2.. lol,
 
I emailed the seller that is selling MK2 on Amazon. They tell me "Thank you for your inquiry. Warranty is only limited in japan."    ....  I cannot see myself spending $300 for something with no warranty in the USA. It is too risky. Even with Prime, Amazon would provide 90 day support max.
 
I dunno what the holdup is with the MDR-1ABT. In the USA, I have a feeling the prices for other headphones might drop as soon as 1ABT is officially out in USA because the 1ABT will be $400. Specs-wise, the 1ABT are top-of-the-line on paper so that might push everything else down in cost.

 

[cehowardNote3]

  I finally bit the bullet after lenghty A-B-C-D comparisons between Sennheiser Momentum Wireless, Philips Fidelio M2BT, Plantronics Backbeat Pro and  Logitech UE9000.
 
Plantronics was first off the table, its imaging simply being too unnatural, as if something was missing in the middle of the soundstaging
 
Then the UE9000 went for reasons of muddyness and lack of refinement (all relative of course, the UE9000 are by all means a great pair of cans, but in comparison with my numbers 1 and 2 ... no)
 
The selection between the Fidelio and Momentums proved to be the hardest ... in fact so hard that I decided to keep them both.
 
Both excellent wireless cans, but different pros and cons. The Fidelio are on ear while the Momentums are over ear (at least the pair I have). The Fidelio and Mometum both have their own Bluetooth quirks so they are on par there. Their individual styling is different. In the end a matter of taste but I would imaging the Fidelio to be a better fit for the urban hipster (conveniently disregarding Beats for a moment) while the Momentum would probably appeal to the less-fashion conscious audience.
 
But there where it really counts, musical reproduction, I must admit that despite my initial apprehension of the mid 4k gap the Momentums ended up securing my vote. They sound ever so slightly more clean, more refined, better controlled. The two only aspects where I found the Fidelio slightly more enjoyable are in the highs and imaging. The highs is where the Fidelio are just a tiny bit more sparkly than the Momentums. The imaging is where the Momentums sound just a tad more confined. But that did not prevent the Momentums to simply sound more musical, more in control, more eloquent if you will ...
 
And to be completely straight, the price of the Momentums definitely helped the Fidelios to make an even stronger case. The Fidelios definitely are a great value for money, while the Momentums are ridiculously overpriced, especially given the Bluetooth quircks. At this price level this type of product simply has to be 100%. I keep them because I can afford them and because I want the maximum enjoyment out of a wireless pair of cans. In that sense I simply find them better and more enjoyable than the Fidelios. But there will definitely be moments that I will dash out the door grabbing the Fidelios instead ...

 
Great report/review..However,  IMO, you left out one important player, the Definitive Technology Symphony 1..These phones are a much more worthy opponent than some of the others you listed.
 
However, I agree on keeping both that impress you well. 

 

[bladefd]

BTW - which other Bluetooth headphones have multipoint? Somebody above mentioned that the Plantronics Backbeat Pros are the cheapest bluetooth headphones that have multipoint.. Obviously it must have a mic on it..

 

[cehowardNote3]

  Quite frankly, I don't understand Sony. Why are they still manufacturing & selling the old 1RBT in USA when there have been new MK2 for more than a year and half now? I posted asking which 1RBT you get on Amazon, Sony responds that there is no such thing as MK2.. lol,
 
I emailed the seller that is selling MK2 on Amazon. They tell me "Thank you for your inquiry. Warranty is only limited in japan."    ....  I cannot see myself spending $300 for something with no warranty in the USA. It is too risky. Even with Prime, Amazon would provide 90 day support max.
 
I dunno what the holdup is with the MDR-1ABT. In the USA, I have a feeling the prices for other headphones might drop as soon as 1ABT is officially out in USA because the 1ABT will be $400. Specs-wise, the 1ABT are top-of-the-line on paper so that might push everything else down in cost.

I agree with you.. However, I read the specs on the MK2, and I went with an overseas(I am in USA)vendor who explained the return/warranty very well. Vendor was Accessoryjack.. They explained that if warranty work needed to be done on my MK2, I would have to send them back to them(on my dime)and they in turn would send them to Sony Japan. On getting them back from Sony Japan, they will ship them back to me free of charge..Also, I have read feedback where this vendor did just that with warranty on gray market products. Anyway, my Mk2s have been fantastic.. I wouldn't touch the 1RBT with a stick. But, went out on a limb to get the MK2s..
 
On the 1ABT, I don't know what Sony's game is on these. Unless they ran into some production problems or found some flaws, they are really screwing up the release of the 1ABT. I am sitting here with $400 smacks just burning my hand to try out the 1ABTs. And if they are just as good or better then my M2s(to my ears), they will be keepers..

 

[sashakrik]

   
IMO, I would up that budget another $150 and get the Senn M2 Wireless.. Like others here have done, if they don't work out, you can return them. 

 
Thanks for the recommendation but it's way out of my budget.
 
 
 

The Fidelio were very comfortable on my head (me too, average head, average ears). I started feeling discomfort on the ears after several hours. Same as with the ATH, but the ATH are a small over ear, bit less than 5cm inner diameter. Which means, depending on your ears the Fidelio may be more comfortable.
The Fidelio are also a bit more boosted in the bass, so they could be better for dubstep if you don't want to use EQ, especially due to their bodied low bass, a denser vibration in the deep bass.
The ATH need a louder volume and some EQ to acquire that (and more than that).
My suggestion would be to buy the ATH and just make an EQ preset for dubstep, where you only push the bass from 40 to 80hz of 6db and what's below 40 or between 80 and 100 of 3db, and reduce from 200 to 400 of-3db.
That's simple and works very well for dubstep on the ATH.
Alternatively you could at least use the bass boost function of some smartphone or of some music players.
Another difference between them is that the ATH need to be used at louder volume to really shine, due to their bigger drivers. So on lower volume the Fidelio can be more lively.

I've tried the Fidelio on a train, and I had a very good passive isolation.
Now, it also depends on where you live.
The old trains of south of Italy can be quite louder than the German ones where I've tested the Fidelio, and where I'll test the ATH tomorrow and let you know.

Sound leakage on Fidelio is low, no problem. Of course, at max volume on an airplane while everybody sleep, they're not as silent as a good over ear.
The ATH isolate a bit less, but for example my roommates yesterday at two meters from me could not hear any leakage at medium volume (but yes at higher volume, which anyway in the ATH is quite louder than in the Fidelio).
The ATH are also more present in the other frequencies, compared with the Fidelio, which can also have some sibilance in some highs.
Now the Fidelio M2BT can, from time to time, be a bit capricious with the connection, like many of the first multipoint headphones.
The M1BT do not have this (anyway marginal and very occasional) problem and sound pretty much identical although the m2bt have wider frequency range.
The ATH you can buy them on eBay.com, on amazon.com, and in the global Rakuten.
Strictly speaking of price you find the cheapest seller on Rakuten, but for return policies I suggest to check eBay and amazon.

 
Thank you for the recommendations !
Seems that both the ATH and the fidelio will not suit me, it sound that they aren't perfectly comfortable. I'm looking for headphones that i can wear for 5-6 hours without feeling any discomfort.
In addition seems that the fidelio has some problems with the Bluetooth connection. I need headphones with a solid connection.
 
Are there any other recommendations ?

 

[WDitters]

   
Great report/review..However,  IMO, you left out one important player, the Definitive Technology Symphony 1..These phones are a much more worthy opponent than some of the others you listed.
 
However, I agree on keeping both that impress you well. 

Oh but the Definitive Technology Symphony 1 are on the way ... I have not finished yet