[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolchu001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK i got a question, I'm going to markl my D2000, inside each cup there is a gray disc pad and a white fluffy strip around it, Do I remove these and then reapply them on top of the dynamat?? or just reapply the gray disc or neither...??

Check with "Markl" - I have no idea - never opened up a pair of D2000s. My guess would be... that's Denon's version of the "Markl mods."

Without more knowledge, I'd tend to place the Dynamat around the outside of the gray disc - and under the fluffy stuff... if... I added anything.

 

[rippingdragon]

Is there much of a difference in sound quality between Dynamat and the cheaper knock-off brands?

The stores in my area only stock Dynamat in bigger and much more expensive packs and I haven't been able to find a reasonably priced online store in Australia that stocks Dynamat in small quantities.

Any advice or help you can give would be appreciated.

 

[stevenkelby]

Jaycar Electronics

I had both here and compared them. This is the same but has a plastic backing, Dynamat is heavy paper. You throw that away anyway, otherwise this is the same.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jaycar Electronics I had both here and compared them. This is the same but has a plastic backing, Dynamat is heavy paper. You throw that away anyway, otherwise this is the same.

What do you mean - "you through that away anyway?" Are you suggesting you're supposed to peal off the plastic / paper backing after you've stuck the Dynamat to the surface of the phone cups?

It didn't appear that "Markl" did that - it appeared that he left it on.

 

[markl]

I've sampled 3 other kinds of damping material besides the Dynamat. Each has certain advantages and disadvantages, but they aren't all the same. In some ways, Dynamat is the hardest to work with, but is probably the best at providing stiff damping. It's also the stickiest and adheres the best.

The main difference is that Dynamat is somewhat thicker with more butyl rubber (which can spread out and goop out around the edges if you aren't careful) as well a sturdier metal backing. This works great on the D5000 that needs a bit of extra damping vs. the D2000 for which I use a different brand. The Dynamat requires more work and a more careful hand to apply, and you'll need some little tools to contain the excess butyl rubber.


If you can't find Dynamat, I wouldn't sweat too much, for a 1st timer, using another brand will probably be easier than fighting the Dynamat anyway.

Quote:

What do you mean - "you through that away anyway?"

He's talking about the backing that you pull off, not the metallic surface layer.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you mean - "you through that away anyway?"

Sorry, should have explained. I was talking about the backing for the adhesive that must be removed to stick the mat down. Both types have the same foil backing, which should be left attached.

It would be a real pain to remove that foil, and messy, but some Grado modders do it I see, in small amounts for the back of the drivers. Would be too hard and messy in bigger pieces.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...

Mark, you would know

They appear the same but this alternative could quite probably have a different composition for sure now I think of it,

 

[markl]

Yeah, the differences in amount of damping aren't huge, and some people may want more or less depending on taste. The D2000 don't need as much damping, so I use a slightly thinner material.

In any case, I wouldn't worry *too much* about it overall.

 

[rippingdragon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, the differences in amount of damping aren't huge, and some people may want more or less depending on taste. The D2000 don't need as much damping, so I use a slightly thinner material. In any case, I wouldn't worry *too much* about it overall.

Excellent! Thanks for the advice. I've gone ahead and used the other brand that I've had. Having messed around with it a fair it I'm glad I didn't go with the thicker and goopier Dynamat as that would have been a pain to handle.

This leads to my next question though. In taking everything apart I've lost track of what goes where. Can I just confirm that 1) the swivel that comes down from the band and connects to the cups is at the back of the headphones and 2) the wider bit of the earpad goes at the back and should therefore have more padding underneath it than the skinnier bit.

Cheers!

 

[Tapiozona]

I'm a bit curious as to exactly what the dynamat is for. I'm currently making wooden cups for my D2000's and wonder if I should Dynamat the inside of them. I figure wood is excellent at resonating or whatever it needs to do with sound so why completely cover it up with a lead wall of dampening? I'm one of those who really likes the bass of the d2000's and I'd care not to lose any of it. Would adding only the dynamat to the inside of the cups cause me to lose any bass or will it simply 'tighten' (not sure exactly what that means still) it. I dont mind having the same bass impact if it sounds more crisp but I do mind having less bass.

Thanks!

 

[markl]

Tapiozona,
It's a misconception that the mods eliminate bass (unless you stuff the cups which I no longer recommend).

Have you ever seen those little discs they sell to home theater enthusiasts that go under your seat and vibrate in time with the bass/subwoofer to give you the *sensation* of "more" bass? That's in essence what's happening with the Denons. All the extra vibration of the assembly and cups creates that same false whoopie cushion bass effect of those discs. It's not real bass info, but it fools the brain into believing there's more impact becuase it's more tactile and you can feel it.

Some people like the effect and they are perfectly entitled to, others do not. The mods will tighten the bass, if executed properly, not roll it off. Just like with a speaker cabinet when you control resonances, the resolution/imaging/etc also improves.

OTOH, if you already like the Denon bass, why mess with it?

WRT to cups-- as I've learned, you have to be very careful with the size and shape of the cup, it will drastically affect the sound you get, not always for the best.

 

[Tapiozona]

Ok, that sounds good. appreciate the response.

I have buttkickers in my home theater. Absolutely love them most of the time, but they do get annoying after a while.

The cups I turned won't carry the same shape as the denons. it was a bit tough to recreate the exact shape inside and out but I did at least keep true when it came to overall volume of airspace within the cups. It was particularly tough to keep the insides perfectly symetrical because of the 4 lips which stick out where the screws tighten into. At best its very close. Hopefully my ears arent trained enough to hear a difference and who knows, it may sound fantastic.

If not I'm only out $10 for the hardwood and some of my time.

Back to the topic at hand. Do you think adding the dynamat to the cups only will drastically decrease the bass sensation? I like the idea of adding the dynamat there as it makes it easier to disguise any imperfections i left behind while carving out the inside of the cups incase they do slightly alter the sound.

Also, have you experimented at all with creating a better seal between the edge of the cup and the metal ring it butts up against? There is that thin piece of wood on the edge of the cup which protrudes deeper into the groove on the headphones but from the looks of it theres no seal created by it and seems that it would be part of the reason the denons leak so much sound (One of my biggest peaves about them).

I was thinking of adding a thin strip of rubber (the kind used with window screen kits) into the groove on the outside of the headphones to better 'seal' the cups and keep more sound in. Do you think this would completely undermine what Denon attempted to do when they made the D2000's and ruin the sound?

 

[markl]

Quote:

Do you think adding the dynamat to the cups only will drastically decrease the bass sensation?

Not drastically, but some.


Quote:

I was thinking of adding a thin strip of rubber (the kind used with window screen kits) into the groove on the outside of the headphones to better 'seal' the cups and keep more sound in. Do you think this would completely undermine what Denon attempted to do when they made the D2000's and ruin the sound?

Give it a try and let us know what you think.

 

[Bostonears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapiozona /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was thinking of adding a thin strip of rubber (the kind used with window screen kits) into the groove on the outside of the headphones to better 'seal' the cups and keep more sound in. Do you think this would completely undermine what Denon attempted to do when they made the D2000's and ruin the sound?

Denon specifically put that groove there as part of its "Acoustic Optimizer" feature to balance sound pressure in front of and behind the driver. I would be extremely hesitant to muck with that, although if you do, just make certain that whatever you do is 100% reversible.

 

[Tapiozona]

Thats what I figured. I'll try it anyways as it's 100% reversible and would take no more than a few minutes to do so. I wasn't going to seal it all the way, just restrict the air somewhat.

Who knows. May get lucky.