How do you think about Final

[zilkhaw]

Impossible to buy online? We're the UK Distributor

Maybe he is saying that it is impossible to buy with the same price anymore? 185€ for E5000 is even cheaper than what I can find in Japan.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Impossible to buy online? We're the UK Distributor

Oh yes, I'm aware of your website, I've regularly browsed your droolworthy deals on Final gear actually!

I was too quick in my message, and even in France I know of one (but only one) store who still display the E5000 as in stock. That doesn't change the fact that I haven't been able to audition any Final gear for the past year without first placing an order. Ordering from another country is a hoop any enthusiast will jump through, myself included, but still it gives me pause - return shipping is more expensive for starters, even if Paypal covers that for a few purchases per year. Also it can be frustrating, getting your hopes up then on first listen realizing at once that nope, such-and-such is not for you, compared to sampling gear in a store or at a show. Granted, I'm spoilt because I live in a big city where it's often (not always though!) possible to audition many things before buying them. I know many fellow head-fiers have to commit and suffer the consequences, terrible shipping costs be damned.

Do you have any plans on expanding across the Channel?
Hell, I see a real business opportunity here with Final, it's a brand that resonates with the French market in many ways, both in audio terms and in design/manufacture. I used to work in journalism and communication for/around luxury brands; if I had the network and hi-fi PR experience I'd just ask Final to consider me for a rep job.

Maybe he is saying that it is impossible to buy with the same price anymore? 185€ for E5000 is even cheaper than what I can find in Japan.

That was a great deal, wasn't it?

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

Oh yes, I'm aware of your website, I've regularly browsed your droolworthy deals on Final gear actually!

I was too quick in my message, and even in France I know of one (but only one) store who still display the E5000 as in stock. That doesn't change the fact that I haven't been able to audition any Final gear for the past year without first placing an order. Ordering from another country is a hoop any enthusiast will jump through, myself included, but still it gives me pause - return shipping is more expensive for starters, even if Paypal covers that for a few purchases per year. Also it can be frustrating, getting your hopes up then on first listen realizing at once that nope, such-and-such is not for you, compared to sampling gear in a store or at a show. Granted, I'm spoilt because I live in a big city where it's often (not always though!) possible to audition many things before buying them. I know many fellow head-fiers have to commit and suffer the consequences, terrible shipping costs be damned.

Do you have any plans on expanding across the Channel?
Hell, I see a real business opportunity here with Final, it's a brand that resonates with the French market in many ways, both in audio terms and in design/manufacture. I used to work in journalism and communication for/around luxury brands; if I had the network and hi-fi PR experience I'd just ask Final to consider me for a rep job.


That was a great deal, wasn't it?

I'll have to try and find out what's happening with Final in France, and keep you updated. Unfortunately it all comes down to dealer agreements, but the E series should be readily available on Amazon however as you have said it does involve the shipping costs from us... Lets hope there is a solution for you guys in other European countries.

 

[ClieOS]

If I am not mistaken, Final has applied vent to their Piano Forte which was released around 2008 or 09. I guess during that time, none of the IEM in the market have started to add vents? I might be wrong though.

Piano Forte range does not create any air tight seal, thus it is really more of an odd-shaped earbuds than an true IEM, at most they are half in-ear - plus they are also all dynamic driver based (*IIRC) - and dynamic driver IEM are mostly vented ever since their invention (*which I believe was by Future Sonics as the world's first custom IEM back in the late 80s, or at least among the very first). IIRC, Final Audio first real IEM (with eartips that meant for air tight seal) is the Heaven Series with BA driver starting around 2010. That's also when they made used of the term BAM, as far as I can remember. However, I already owned the Sleek Audio SA6 back in 2008 that featured a vented design, which likely was borrowed from hearing aid design as Sleek Audio's owner was in the hearing aid business previously.

 

[zilkhaw]

Piano Forte range does not create any air tight seal, thus it is really more of an odd-shaped earbuds than an true IEM, at most they are half in-ear - plus they are also all dynamic driver based (*IIRC) - and dynamic driver IEM are mostly vented ever since their invention (*which I believe was by Future Sonics as the world's first custom IEM back in the late 80s, or at least among the very first). IIRC, Final Audio first real IEM (with eartips that meant for air tight seal) is the Heaven Series with BA driver starting around 2010. That's also when they made used of the term BAM, as far as I can remember. However, I already owned the Sleek Audio SA6 back in 2008 that featured a vented design, which likely was borrowed from hearing aid design as Sleek Audio's owner was in the hearing aid business previously.

Ah I see. Wow, you are so knowledgeable. I have never know that all dynamic driver IEM are mostly vented. Before I came to Japan, I was using Sennheiser IE8 but I did not notice that it has any vent on it.

About BAM, I am not sure if it is only creating holes in the body or there is any special design on the driver. As an engineer, it is pretty common for us to refer to a technology or a technique which is already available, and just tweaking a little for improvement and prove for variation, then it can be applied as our own patent.

By the way, thank you very much for sharing us your knowledge.

p/s: Btw I just realize that you are an audio reviewer from Malaysia. That is pretty rare. I am a Malaysian! Malaysia Boleh!

 

[ClieOS]

Before I came to Japan, I was using Sennheiser IE8 but I did not notice that it has any vent on it.

Yes, that's because IE8 has an internal vent that vents the air back to the front chamber / nozzle. The tiny switch is there to control how much venting is allowed, which in term control the bass response.

 

[toranku]

Final stuff's are quite niche, barring the E-series. They have a specific sound they are aiming for.

Final's midrange also tends to be textured, warm and dark. The bass and treble usually suffers, but if you buy a final...you're likely doing it for the mids.

Quite a number of finals do get congested especially when they have a darker tuning.

 

[zilkhaw]

Final stuff's are quite niche, barring the E-series. They have a specific sound they are aiming for.

Final's midrange also tends to be textured, warm and dark. The bass and treble usually suffers, but if you buy a final...you're likely doing it for the mids.

Quite a number of finals do get congested especially when they have a darker tuning.

Mind to share which one that you think to be dark? Maybe I seldom listen to super bright earphones, so I have never felt that Final earphones to be dark

 

[toranku]

Mind to share which one that you think to be dark? Maybe I seldom listen to super bright earphones, so I have never felt that Final earphones to be dark

The most neutral-slightly bright one would be Heaven 7, most tend to be darker than it.

They aren't dark in terms of being dominated by bass and mids, but they tend to have more mids than treble

 

[zilkhaw]

The most neutral-slightly bright one would be Heaven 7, most tend to be darker than it.

They aren't dark in terms of being dominated by bass and mids, but they tend to have more mids than treble

Ah, I think I agree with you. I really like the mid of Final that's why I really like MAKE2 and their E-series but their darkness or brightness suit my taste very well, maybe because of the genre of music that I normally listen to.
I own FI-BA-SS, and I tried F-series before, those BA models seem to have better treble but they somehow suffer at certain high frequency which is kind of piercing my ears and this causes them kind of music picky.

I just borrowed a pair of Piano Forte VIII this week, it basically performs very bad for most of the music, but when it is used to play classical piano music or guitar music, it is GODLIKE for me.

 

[FastAndClean]

i have the E5000 and love them, how is the E4000 compared to them?

 

[zilkhaw]

i have the E5000 and love them, how is the E4000 compared to them?

Hi, personally I have only listened to both of them for less than 10min in total. So I cannot really remember how much the difference do they have especially I was driving them with my old ipod touch that time.
However searching a little here, I got this results.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/final-e5000.23161/reviews#review-21000
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/final-e5000.23161/reviews#review-21113

 

[zilkhaw]

Thank you very much to everyone for taking your time to share your precious opinion.

Actually, I am curious. In US and EU, is it easy for you guys to find Final product in shops compared to the other brand?
Because even though I am working in Japan right now, Final product is kind of limited to certain shops only.

At least for now with the cheaper E-series, I can try them right on the display rack any time I want.
I still remember when I first came to Japan, I love to try headphones and earphones in big electronic shops.
That time, all Final products were locked in a glass cabinet because of their insane price, and when I asked for an audition, the electronic shop staff normally just keep locking his eye on me just like a police looking at a criminal.
C'mon, who can actually have a good audition under that kind of stress?

 

[elton7033]

I have found that the Final IEM doesn't scale well from the cheaper model to the more expensive ones. In fact I tend to prefer their lower end models especially in the older lines. The latest E line is great compare to their older stuff.

Their older full size are just heavy and uncomfortable to me without real highlight in sound. However their new D8000 planar which I found exceptionally good sounding.

Final is finally shaping up to be more competitive to my mind outside their entry level gear without resorting to weird tuning and design as they did in the past.

Final is always hit or miss, the D8000 is not actually 100% Final though, the AFDS magnet design idea originated from NHlab. (Nakajima Heitaro) ←the father of CD, which have its roots of planar design from Sony and Yamaha. But well Final flagship really means the Final piece for its engineer, Nakajima pass away right after D8000 is out and Takai Kanemori, head of Japan’s Final Audio Design pass away after SONOROUS X is complete.
I am actually surprise the D8000 sounds so awesome where I feel its in the same league with STAX SR009/ Focal Utopia etc... one of the best you can buy with money at the moment.