[bigshot]

Why would they post specs like that? It makes no sense to me. Wouldn't you want to post THD for normal use, not something representing extremes that push the distortion well into the audible range? Do their customers even know what 10% THD is?

This looks like a generalization so I have to ask, who is everyone?

Have you read the first post in Testing Audiophile Myths yet? All this has been done before and it's in there. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/

 

[castleofargh]

Why would they post specs like that? It makes no sense to me. Wouldn't you want to post THD for normal use, not something representing extremes that push the distortion well into the audible range? Do their customers even know what 10% THD is?



Have you read the first post in Testing Audiophile Myths yet? All this has been done before and it's in there. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/

it's not that rare for tube amps to give plain max power instead of max power at 1%THD. some will exceed the 1% value pretty rapidly, if not always. also keep in mind that it won't sound horrible like with SS amps where anything above 1% is usually closer to 100% distortion than it is to 1%.
the fellows in the hd650 topic can't stop bringing those amps up when asked for a good pairing with the hd650, so I'm guessing that whatever they're doing, it doesn't sound horrible.


argh, cable topic, quick say something about cables.... I have some!

 

[TheSonicTruth]

it's not that rare for tube amps to give plain max power instead of max power at 1%THD. some will exceed the 1% value pretty rapidly, if not always. also keep in mind that it won't sound horrible like with SS amps where anything above 1% is usually closer to 100% distortion than it is to 1%.
the fellows in the hd650 topic can't stop bringing those amps up when asked for a good pairing with the hd650, so I'm guessing that whatever they're doing, it doesn't sound horrible.


argh, cable topic, quick say something about cables.... I have some!

It can't be helped that a thread about cables will inevitably drift off to some other topic - like content, which makes an infinitely greater difference than '$5 vs $500' cables.

 

[71 dB]

10% THD?! Who would want that?! I'll have to look closer when I get more time, but you might have found the perfect example of "defective by design". The specs page for the Crack doesn't list any specs.... just sales pitch. I would avoid those amps like the plague!

I believe 10 % THD is typical for tube amps. It doesn't sound that bad, because most of it is even harmonics (asymmetric distortion). On the contrary, some people like how such distortion makes the sound "warmer." It has NOTHING to do with high fidelity, but so what?

 

[bigshot]

I've never seen a solid state amp with distortion that high, have you? How would they jury rig a solid state amp to have tube distortion? Does it have some sort of built in tube emulator?

 

[71 dB]

I've never seen a solid state amp with distortion that high, have you? How would they jury rig a solid state amp to have tube distortion? Does it have some sort of built in tube emulator?

Solid state amps have very low distortion unless overdriven when the distortion can be more than 10 %. If you want distortion-free amplification you select a solid state amp. If you want "warm sound distortion", you select a tube amp. Simple as that.

 

[Whazzzup]

Warm=distortion. Some folks like that.

 

[bigshot]

Isn’t warm a frequency response thing?

 

[71 dB]

Isn’t warm a frequency response thing?

That too (more bass, less treble). Tube amps generate even harmonics distortion because of asymmetry on negative and positive signals. For some reason human hearing finds even harmonic more pleasing than odd harmonics. Solid state amps clip very symmetrically negative and positive signals so when they produce a lot of distortion, it's mostly odd harmonics which sound harsher.

 

[bigshot]

Yeah I would think distortion would be more of a harsh vs soft thing, kind of like soft focus in a movie. Warmth to me indicates a high and roll off. I'd like to be able to control those things myself and make them work perfectly with my room. I wouldn't want that hard wired into my amp with no way to adjust it. That's why I don't understand why people buy colored tube amps. It's a roll of the die what kind of sound you're going to get.

That specs page is so packed with obfuscation and sales pitch, it's exhausting for me to translate it. But I'm guessing that it's a solid state amp with some sort of tube emulator built in. Is the tube emulator adjustable? That might be useful if you could dial it in from clean solid state to max tube coloration.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Technically speaking, distortion accounts for any deviation with an audio signal, good or bad, wanted or unwanted.

Edit: Including distortion potentially introduced by using different cables! (had to mention cables to keep on topic)

 

[moriez]

Why would they post specs like that? It makes no sense to me. Wouldn't you want to post THD for normal use, not something representing extremes that push the distortion well into the audible range? Do their customers even know what 10% THD is?

If you're really boggled and like to know there are willing and able admins on the Bottlehead forum of who I'm sure can explain your questions.

Try my G-Snake vs Integra cables suggestion instead. That you can actually do at some point

Have you read the first post in Testing Audiophile Myths yet? All this has been done before and it's in there. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/

Impressive post. I shall read.[/QUOTE]

 

[JRG1990]

Cable measurements.

USB cables:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html
S/PDIF Coaxial cables:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/guest-review-measurements-dr-franks.html
S/PDIF TosLink cables:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/measurements-toslink-optical-audio.html
HDMI cables
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/11/guest-review-measurements-quantum-hdmi.html

Nothing even close to audible differences.

 

[71 dB]

1. Yeah I would think distortion would be more of a harsh vs soft thing, kind of like soft focus in a movie. Warmth to me indicates a high and roll off. I'd like to be able to control those things myself and make them work perfectly with my room. I wouldn't want that hard wired into my amp with no way to adjust it. That's why I don't understand why people buy colored tube amps. It's a roll of the die what kind of sound you're going to get.

2. That specs page is so packed with obfuscation and sales pitch, it's exhausting for me to translate it. But I'm guessing that it's a solid state amp with some sort of tube emulator built in. Is the tube emulator adjustable? That might be useful if you could dial it in from clean solid state to max tube coloration.

1. Colourization makes everything sound more of the same so it's easier to get used to that sound signature. Some people want a world where everything is familiar and easy rather than controlled or precise. A solid state amp with 0.01 % THD makes things more challenging because cold recordings will sound cold and warm recordings warm instead of everything sounding warm (the same). In fact I believe people like tube amps for the same reasons they like vinyl: Pleasing distortion.

2. Obfuscation and sales pitch? That has never happened before in the history of audio.

 

[Maxx134]

Hey guys just popped in here to see how's it going !

looks like a lot of pages went by..
Like to add some comments:

So cables do matter ? Confused.

In the manufacturing process of cable, we have noted that there has been advancements, with the introduction of OCC type cable, in trying to get a more pure conductivity..

Also we have seen these wire & cable companies come up with:
different windings
different materials different combinations of metals,
either silver plated
or silver with copper mixed or separately insulated,
Etc.
And they come up with all their reasonings in their websites.

I've even been to a meet where there was a cable company comparing cables with the same amp & same headphones and people were noting side by side differences ..

To me, the differences were not differences in frequency response per se, but instead in the type of interpretation of (Clarity or confusion) in the music.

So when we go into these websites of the wire manufacturers, they expound upon all sorts of designs and come with their explanations which has not been noted here ...

That is the one thing I wanted to point out..
Not that any of that it is valid, but I wanted to point out that we have not discussed those manufacturers explanations of these cable differences.

In basic electricity we know that the signal rides on the surface of a conductor, rather than the center.
So more surface area more strands is better, right?
Better than a solid core?

But then they start talking about the strands reacting with the other strands and like how the electrons jumping and also creating magnetic influence upon this wire because of the strands, so they make it a concern.

So now to say wire sounds the same starts to seem like really oversimplifying the details...
When you get into all these manufacturing details, there starts to form a valid reason why these companies are using OCC cable and winding types and different insulation materials.

The fact that OCC copper or pure silver is more conductive and stated better because it has less impurities for the electrons to get go through is yet another rabbit hole.
How can we prove this make a difference to our application?
Maybe in transformers it should.

So I know I've said too much and it will be hard to explain away this mess.. sorry in advance