How do I convince people that audio cables DO NOT make a difference

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by 3602, Apr 4, 2010.
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  1. 3602
    On another forum, I believe that I am fed up with all the people saying 'this cable does it, that cable goes together only with that gear', etc.
    I believe we are clear on the point that audio cables, whether interconnects, headphone cables or power cables, DO NOT change anything (unless, of course, very poor shielding or extremely high resistance). The whole thing is that a lot of people over 'there' are quite convinced that they, indeed, do.
     
  2. leeperry
    oh, a troll bait..my favorite [​IMG]
     
  3. krmathis Contributor
    Why even bother trying to convince? Just ignore!
     
  4. TheMarchingMule Contributor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    oh, a troll bait..my favorite [​IMG]



    Haha is that a Tamagotchi? [​IMG]

    @OP: Good luck trying to be their messiah.
     
  5. ph0rk
    Are you that keen to waste your time?
     
  6. Br777
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3602 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    On another forum, I believe that I am fed up with all the people saying 'this cable does it, that cable goes together only with that gear', etc.
    I believe we are clear on the point that audio cables, whether interconnects, headphone cables or power cables, DO NOT change anything (unless, of course, very poor shielding or extremely high resistance). The whole thing is that a lot of people over 'there' are quite convinced that they, indeed, do.




    i am not convinced by any means in either camp on this one, but it seems like some big names, such as 6moons (i am assuming they are considered a big name in reviewing, i could be wrong) for example have reviewed cables to death claiming all sorts of difference.

    I would love it if you or someone gathered some links from science based testing, or info graphs or something other than speculation (not saying that youre speculating).

    Im sure this sort if info is scattered all over this site, but none the less, i find myself constantly tempted to upgrade a cable (i use radio shack only at this point) and i just cant convince myself that its anything but placebo..
     
  7. 3602
    I mean, how do they manage to ignore 14 years of ABXing speaker cables. Speaker Wire
     
  8. Br777
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3602 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    I mean, how do they manage to ignore 14 years of ABXing speaker cables. Speaker Wire



    that was enough for me.. thanks for that. you saved me lots of time and money. Consider 1 person convinced..
     
  9. eucariote
    You probably already know this.. but with a properly designed double blind test. If the tester is blind to the source, along with the assistant (to not give away the answer with cues) and the tester can choose the 'better' cable with a frequency that that would occur less than 5% due to random variation, given adequate samples and assuming a binomial distribution of outcomes, than the effect is real. If the choices fall within a 95% distribution of random outcomes, than the effect is not real. Use a power analysis to figure out baseline variation and calculate a sample size that would eliminate type 1 (false positive) and type 2 (false rejection) errors. Then run an F test to see is between-group variation exceeds within-group variation by an adequate margin. If it does, you can safely reject the null hypothesis that there is no difference, and if you did measure one it was just a random outcome.
     
  10. Br777
    so... gulp.. is everything the audio critic says really true?
     
  11. gilency Contributor
    If you read The Demon-Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark
    by Carl Sagan, you'll understand that no matter what science you present, you wont be able to convince some people that their perceptions are not real.
    Good luck in your quest!
     
  12. MisterMoJo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eucariote /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    You probably already know this.. but with a properly designed double blind test. If the tester is blind to the source, along with the assistant (to not give away the answer with cues) and the tester can choose the 'better' cable with a frequency that that would occur less than 5% due to random variation, given adequate samples and assuming a binomial distribution of outcomes, than the effect is real. If the choices fall within a 95% distribution of random outcomes, than the effect is not real. Use a power analysis to figure out baseline variation and calculate a sample size that would eliminate type 1 (false positive) and type 2 (false rejection) errors. Then run an F test to see is between-group variation exceeds within-group variation by an adequate margin. If it does, you can safely reject the null hypothesis that there is no difference, and if you did measure one it was just a random outcome.



    Couldn't be more obvious![​IMG]
     
  13. aimlink Contributor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3602 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    On another forum, I believe that I am fed up with all the people saying 'this cable does it, that cable goes together only with that gear', etc.
    I believe we are clear on the point that audio cables, whether interconnects, headphone cables or power cables, DO NOT change anything (unless, of course, very poor shielding or extremely high resistance). The whole thing is that a lot of people over 'there' are quite convinced that they, indeed, do.




    I thought you'd have enough of a challenge trying to come to terms with the ways in which your own ears, eyes and thoughts can totally mislead you. We all have our crosses to bear in this regard. One sign of how huge that cross is, is when you're convinced you have it figured out while others don't.

    So, I wouldn't worry too much about what others think, real or imagined. Start with you, your only reference point. Ensure its neutrality and clarity. Good luck!!!
     
  14. G.Trenchev
    The cable can not "sound" or have any sound signature.It can only have influence on other components and make them sound different,as it's 3 basic specs do have influence on the whole set-up.That's capacitance,inductance and resistance.For instance,the capacity of a cable can roll off high freq's ,BUT this depends on the source and it's output impedance.Inductance can cause non-linearity in certain frequencies,and resistance will add to the output impedance.So a good audio cable should have low capacity(basically no unnecessary filling or conductors),low impedance(quality conductor wire and plugs),and low inductance(cables not too long).
    That's my opinions-based on some experience.There's nothing magical here,just specs.The lower,the better.Goes for the price as well[​IMG]
     
  15. mrarroyo Contributor
    This requires a lot of beers, but as Kai wrote: why bother just enjoy your music and be happy.
     
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